Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[BertP]

ohioviper wrote:
blown duramax heads

I have to admit that this is the first time I have seen a problem with the cylinder heads on a DMax. But, notice that the poster states that the heads were improperly torqued at the factory and they moved around. The fact that they are aluminum is irrelevant. If the heads had been cast iron, they would most likely still have cracked. I have seen many cracked cast iron heads in my day - both diesel and gasser - to know that no material is immune to failure. For that matter, look at the series 53 cast iron CTD blocks: serious cracking issues. Does that mean that every CTD's block will crack and that they are all garbage? Hardly. Cummins fixed the casting problem and there have been no more cracked blocks that I am aware of.

ohioviper wrote:
I didnt look very hard and found many.Take the blinders off.
There are plenty of them out there if you listen and look.
Sorry to have stepped on your Ford and Chevy toes.
Sorry Im not a shade tree mechanic, I wont bore you with the details but I know my stuff on Diesels.And if you think aluminum heads on an iron block dont shrink and expand at diff rates I got some swamp land to sell you.

I don't think anyone said that they don't. But, if it is as big a problem as you say, you had better get your CTD modified. Those aluminum pistons in it are sure to come apart at the most inopportune time and put some really big dents in the oil pan.

Bert

[hone_eagle]

.And if you think aluminum heads on an iron block dont shrink and expand at diff rates I got some swamp land to sell you.
Not enuf to matter 🙂 if you blow a gasket in a un chipped engine,it has most likely been abused in a multude of other ways eg. run low on coolant and over heated.

[ohioviper]

Blt2ski wrote:
I would like to know how many, where and when there have been headgasket problems with the dmax? So far, on all the diesel forums, there have been NONE reported. Yes that is right, with 1 million blocks on the road, NO head gasket problems. Maybe in the older days, ie early 60's, there was some problems with vettes and iron block aluminum heads, but in todays rigs, that is a few and far between problem.

blown duramax heads

More blown head gaskets.

TSB #060601006 -- INFORMATION ON 2006 6.6 LBZ LLY DURAMAX DIESEL ENGINE CYLINDER HEAD GASKET CHANGE - NEW HEAD GASKET AND TORQUE SPECIFICATION. *TT (NHTSA ID #10019849, MARCH 01 2006)

I didnt look very hard and found many.Take the blinders off.
There are plenty of them out there if you listen and look.
Sorry to have stepped on your Ford and Chevy toes.
Sorry Im not a shade tree mechanic, I wont bore you with the details but I know my stuff on Diesels.And if you think aluminum heads on an iron block dont shrink and expand at diff rates I got some swamp land to sell you.

[TxCoastCamper]

ohioviper wrote:

bentP wrote:
Upon what scientific data do you base that conclusion? As I mentioned in another thread, aluminum is used by the military in tanks, armoured perconnel carriers, etc as armour. You will never find cast iron used as armour and you will never find a higher psi environment than when an anti armour round strikes an armoured vehicle.

Yea sure aluminum is good stuff, just dont mix well with a cast iron block and high psi. The thermal diff cause them to heat up and cool down at a diff rate and that will cause separation of the 2 parts leading to blown head gaskets and warpage.I dont need scietific data anyone who has any sense knows that aluminum heads on an iron block will not keep for long term. Blown head gaskets are probably the biggest downfall to the dmax.

Bent P wrote:
The CTD is not the top dog in terms of performance, the DMax is. As for longevity, you pay for that in terms of payload. Of the big 3, the Dodge has the lowest paylad when engined with the CTD by far. Everything's a trade off.

2007 Dodge Cummins 6.7= 350hp and 650 ftlbs @2900 rpms
2007 Chevy LBZ dmax= 360 hp and 650 ftlbs @3200 rpms
which one really makes the most power ? Chevy claims 360 just to say they have most power but it is BS.
Go down to the local dyno day and watch the stock trucks dyno.
Go to your local truck pulls and see who wins.

Bent P wrote:
And as long as there are people like you prepared to pay top dollar for a worn out vehicle, there will be people willing to sell them to you.

Sorry pal I bought a brand new 2006 CTD. I would not pay top dollar for a worn out truck. But I would pay alot more for a (worn out Cummins than I would a worn out dmax or powerstroke)I was just stating the facts that the Dodge trucks with CTD and high miles are bringing way more money than any high milage D-max or powerstroke.

OhioViper's opinions are most amusing.

[hone_eagle]

Backyard mechic myth #1 al and cast iron expansion differances-not relavant at 200 degrees our engines operate at,in fact the al that is used(high sil) melts at a temp farily close to cast iron ,it is not beer can metal.

[blt2ski]

ohioviper,

I would like to know how many, where and when there have been headgasket problems with the dmax? So far, on all the diesel forums, there have been NONE reported. Yes that is right, with 1 million blocks on the road, NO head gasket problems. Maybe in the older days, ie early 60's, there was some problems with vettes and iron block aluminum heads, but in todays rigs, that is a few and far between problem.

In all honesty, ALL the current diesels, and maybe even the gas engines will out last the body of the current truck platforms, be it a GM, Dodge, FOrd, toyota, honda ......etc.

As far as stock dyno tests...at one time the GM 6.5td had teh most HP and torque to the rear wheels, yes even more than a B5.9! So the CUmmins 6.7 is ahead of the game today, tomorrow? it will be one of hte other guys, the next day, one of the two remaining diesels pickup engines, the next day, one of the other two below that one.......and on and on and on!

marty

[ohioviper]

bentP wrote:
Upon what scientific data do you base that conclusion? As I mentioned in another thread, aluminum is used by the military in tanks, armoured perconnel carriers, etc as armour. You will never find cast iron used as armour and you will never find a higher psi environment than when an anti armour round strikes an armoured vehicle.

Yea sure aluminum is good stuff, just dont mix well with a cast iron block and high psi. The thermal diff cause them to heat up and cool down at a diff rate and that will cause separation of the 2 parts leading to blown head gaskets and warpage.I dont need scietific data anyone who has any sense knows that aluminum heads on an iron block will not keep for long term. Blown head gaskets are probably the biggest downfall to the dmax.

Bent P wrote:
The CTD is not the top dog in terms of performance, the DMax is. As for longevity, you pay for that in terms of payload. Of the big 3, the Dodge has the lowest paylad when engined with the CTD by far. Everything's a trade off.

2007 Dodge Cummins 6.7= 350hp and 650 ftlbs @2900 rpms
2007 Chevy LBZ dmax= 360 hp and 650 ftlbs @3200 rpms
which one really makes the most power ? Chevy claims 360 just to say they have most power but it is BS.
Go down to the local dyno day and watch the stock trucks dyno.
Go to your local truck pulls and see who wins.

Bent P wrote:
And as long as there are people like you prepared to pay top dollar for a worn out vehicle, there will be people willing to sell them to you.

Sorry pal I bought a brand new 2006 CTD. I would not pay top dollar for a worn out truck. But I would pay alot more for a (worn out Cummins than I would a worn out dmax or powerstroke)I was just stating the facts that the Dodge trucks with CTD and high miles are bringing way more money than any high milage D-max or powerstroke.

[hone_eagle]

Well I drive school bus and all though my fav is a flat front blue bird with a cummins,the boys that work on them hate them,why? because they are hard to work on,we also have GM buses with cat motors,I like mine fine but the boys had to replace one this past winter to the tune of 15,000$ ,not a happy company,the favourite - International,why they always start no matter how cold.So you see it all depends on what is important to you at the time.

[BertP]

ohioviper wrote:
The Cummins is bar none the top dog in perfomance and longevity.It is the real deal my friend, an industrial engine made to last put into a pickup truck.

The CTD is not the top dog in terms of performance, the DMax is. As for longevity, you pay for that in terms of payload. Of the big 3, the Dodge has the lowest paylad when engined with the CTD by far. Everything's a trade off.

ohioviper wrote:
The Duramax while very powerful and quiet still has aluminum heads on a cast block pushing high psi ,they are not going to last.

Upon what scientific data do you base that conclusion? As I mentioned in another thread, aluminum is used by the military in tanks, armoured perconnel carriers, etc as armour. You will never find cast iron used as armour and you will never find a higher psi environment than when an anti armour round strikes an armoured vehicle.

ohioviper wrote:
I would not have a problem buying a used Dodge ram with a Cummins well over 250k miles. But I wouldnt even consider it with the other 2 makes and I must not be the only one look at the prices of the high milage used trucks and compare.

And as long as there are people like you prepared to pay top dollar for a worn out vehicle, there will be people willing to sell them to you.

Bert

[ohioviper]

Got Diesel today at Sams club for $2.66 oh yea baby thats what I'm talking about. Gas was $3.34

Full 350 wrote:
WRONG!!! Ford never had a DT460 in their F series Pickups. Only engines in the Fords were the 444(7.3), 365(6.0) and the new MaxxForce7(6.4)

Sorry the T444 T365 well all the IH engines Ford has used are warmed over IH school bus motors, and decendants of the DT460. Sorry but its the truth.They use the exact same ones in the buses, well the bus engines actualy have diff turbos and down pipes .

Full 350 wrote:
Brand loyalty causing blindness to actual facts and research must be wonderful.

I think you need to think about that one while looking in the mirror.

Take no offense to your brand Ford has built some good trucks over the years but they have never came close to Dodge on the Cummins diesel engine.
The engines IH build are cheap as it gets, low bidder ,low quality. Good example is the school buses they sale the cheapest bus on the market knowing that most schools buy low bidder.Stop bye the local school bus garage and ask those guys what they think about the IH buses and the DT engines.They will tell you they are bottom of the heap.
The Cummins is bar none the top dog in perfomance and longevity.It is the real deal my friend, an industrial engine made to last put into a pickup truck. The Duramax while very powerful and quiet still has aluminum heads on a cast block pushing high psi ,they are not going to last.

I would not have a problem buying a used Dodge ram with a Cummins well over 250k miles. But I wouldnt even consider it with the other 2 makes and I must not be the only one look at the prices of the high milage used trucks and compare.

[a93fxdwg]

my brother has a 2000 pSD 7.3 just hit 350 k on it (2nd tranny) the tranny is the weak link in the 7.3's the motor is bulletproof. Every diesel has it down side. I have a 2002 7.3 w/117k on it and i tow my raptor approx 6 times per year. When Im not towing i get 20 mpg on the freeway, 16 around town. 12 towing. I have upgraded it thought with a tuner, 4"ss exhaust, intake, valve body upgrade, and plan on upgraded the tranny cooler next to the 6.0 cooler. the HP that you can get out of these trucks is awsome. I have a tuner that has , stock mode, 60 hp towing, 80 hp econo and 120 race. Also has a program 0 which when activated disables the PCM module so the truck can never be started without the code. many options on diesels to play with. I think the rest of the truck falls apart before the motor does on these trucks. Just take notice next times your on the road and see whats pulling the big rigs.. 30 ft plus 5 ers and horse trailers, etc. All diesels. also its the way of the future, you will see a lot of new autos having diesels in them in the next 2 years because of the gas problems.

[Walldo]

theroyz71 wrote:
You diesel guys better be right. As of today, I am one.

Congrast on the new diesel, you will love it!!!

[theroyz71]

You diesel guys better be right. As of today, I am one.

[greenchili]

Not sure how you guys expect to be taken seriously with those froo-froo automatic transmissions! NV5600 all the way!! Just teasing...

[full_throttle_3]

ohioviper wrote:
Ford= warmed over International school bus engine DT460.

WRONG!!! Ford never had a DT460 in their F series Pickups. Only engines in the Fords were the 444(7.3), 365(6.0) and the new MaxxForce7(6.4)

ohioviper wrote:
Chevy= Joe Isuzu throw away diesel with great alison trans.

Really? I know of SEVERAL Duramax trucks that have well over 500,000 and a few ovewr 700,000. Think what you want but the Duramax has proven to be pretty dang reliable.

ohioviper wrote:
Dodge= Bullet proof Cummins engine.so-so trans.

Yeah as long as you weren't cursed with a 53 block huh?

ohioviper wrote:
I can replace a transmission cheaper than an engine.

Don't forget that it is very common to replace lift pumps on Cummins powered Dodges. And heaven for bid your fuel pressure drop and you get to replace an injection pump.

ohioviper wrote:
In fact if I want an alison behind my Cummins its now a doable upgrade. With the new Dodge 6 speed auto and the new Cummins 6.7 I think there will be even more pressure on Ford and Chevy.
Everyone knows the Cummins is a better engine. Some just wont admit to it.

Brand loyalty causing blindness to actual facts and research must be wonderful.