Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Skid_Row_Joe]

ponie wrote:
So I am borderline retarded in your eyes. Maybe it would make you feel better if I changed my login to Rain Man.

I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck
I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck
I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck
I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck
I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck

Can't find a dealership with a 5th wheel hitch in a diesel
Cant find a diesel owner willing to pull my 5th wheel locally...

Good luck, friend.

[ponie]

Jarlaxle wrote:

Skid Row Joe wrote:

Jarlaxle wrote:
The 6.0 is, if you're lucky, good for 30-35K before something blows up.

:R I don't believe this.

Unless you can cite and LINK to several specific examples of 6.0s "blowing up," you're just BSing and trolling as usual.

Anyone who denies the disaster that is the 6.0 PSD (turbos, EGR, fuel in the oil, etc, etc, etc, etc) has, at best, a tenuous connection with reality.

KMA.

Its not that I don't believe what you guys post, its that you don't believe your own diesel selves. Now how on earth would anyone arrive at a conclusion comparing 8.1Liter gas to a Diesel, when some of you are so stinking proud that you bash a certain diesel just as bad as you bash the 8.1L gasser. You look like a bunch of loons.

So I am borderline retarded in your eyes. Maybe it would make you feel better if I changed my login to Rain Man.

I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck
I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck
I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck
I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck
I want to pull my 5er with a truck before buying that truck

Can't find a dealership with a 5th wheel hitch in a diesel
Cant find a diesel owner willing to pull my 5th wheel locally
When I do pull with a tricked out 7.3 Liter then you all say "well 7.3s are junk"
Now you say any 6.0 is junk.

Would someone please identify the best current model compact diesel truck to pull 22,000+lb GVW cross country so I can try to find one to test drive.
If any of you think that its that easy to get a truck equipped with a hitch to be made available to pull then by all mean, please PM me the list of phone numbers of dealers where I can find one in PA/NY/OH area.

Ya, I am the one that looks stupid in this thread. Riiiiight. You just keep telling yourselves that.

Would someone please get the map out, look for Warren PA and put a few dates in the calendar to do a comparison pull. I guess you better bring a 6.X something because your buddies say your 6.0s and 7.3s are not up to the task.

Someone please do this so we call all shut up about how stupid I am.

[Jarlaxle]

Skid Row Joe wrote:

Jarlaxle wrote:
The 6.0 is, if you're lucky, good for 30-35K before something blows up.

:R I don't believe this.

Unless you can cite and LINK to several specific examples of 6.0s "blowing up," you're just BSing and trolling as usual.

Anyone who denies the disaster that is the 6.0 PSD (turbos, EGR, fuel in the oil, etc, etc, etc, etc) has, at best, a tenuous connection with reality.

KMA.

[jackbuck]

my 2004 8100 has beed great .gone across country and no problems.up and sdown hills and mountains been great i use mobile one oil and get about 9.5 per gallon

[Skid_Row_Joe]

Jarlaxle wrote:
The 6.0 is, if you're lucky, good for 30-35K before something blows up.

:R I don't believe this.

Unless you can cite and LINK to several specific examples of 6.0s "blowing up," you're just BSing and trolling as usual.

[Jumbo_Cranium]

Ponei, go test drive a new one for Petes sake, or look for a used one a a lot that has a hitch and test drive it. Geez man, you keep wanting someone on here to meet you and burn their diesel to prove your point.


You asked for numbers, I gave them to you, you throw them out the window again.
I am inclined to believe others on here when they say all you are looking for is an argument.

You sure like to sling the word slander around, but it is just another thing you dont have a clue about.

The only critical thing I said about you was you did not know what you are talking about, and you prove that with every post. It ain't slander if its true Jack.

Now, come on and prove us all right again.

[Madhatter1]

Jumbo Cranium is correct in the use of the dyno charts to determine how an engine will perform under a load. Ponie is way off and only looking for more arguments. He is not looking for a tow vehicle or to add any value to the thread. I have a one of the first fiberglass boats made and it is very heavy. I use the dyno charts on the Cummins and Yanmar diesels to make my choice. The Cummins came in 270, 330, and 370 HP versions. HP costs money. I found that all 3 were close in torque up to the 2600 rpm of the 270. I chose this option. Guess what! 270 HP diesel run the boat faster than the 330HP GAS engines that came out (no they were not tired old engines) and fuel consumption was cut nearly in half. If it works in boats and big trucks I do not even know why there is even a question about which is more suited to a heavy load. I has more to do with HOW MUCH YOU TOW VS EVERYDAY DRIVING. Pick gas or diesel bases on how it will be used, That's all there is to it. Now Ponie will disagree again.

[ponie]

That is precisely the point oh great teacher and coach. I don't have a clue and I will continue to keep raising my hand to ask questions and figure things out in the absence of any takers to my pulling comparison. The slander and name calling mean nothing to me. If you go back above and read the top 10 responses to my ignorance you will note that I have already covered the "the torque chart says its so" response. I am in the market to purchase a truck. I am not posting in this thread for fun. Every time one of you super nice diesel owners respond that I don't wont to listen or believe the obvious all I can say is this. I am not going to purchase a product without giving it a simple test drive. If you guys keep cutting on me because I just want to make a purchase based on a tested application you are ignorant ones. I will purchase a truck to pull a 12,000+ load cross country. I seriously doubt any of you changed power plants or manufactures without a test drive so give me a break.

Go ahead and keep slapping me around if it makes you feel better, but its not necessary. I will admit the honest performance difference between the 8.1 and the new 6.x diesels with complete disregard for the 8.1 for I am not loyal to the motor or manufacture. I am loyal to performance to a fault.

When preliminary test (of the 7.3L) prove the charts don't apply when actually pulling a load then once again its only classroom theory and therefore your chart is meaningless as it applies to an 8.1 Liter Gas. I appreciate the follow up to my question about the torque at highway speed, but I was unable to generate anywhere near the broad range of overall power that your chart depicts in operating the one ton 7.3liter chipped turbo diesel last week. It was great empty, but excruciatingly void of power when loaded. Please post the chart on the 7.3 chipped and turbo for I just can' imagine that its that far off today's diesels. In fact this site depicts the 7.3 as only 2mph off other 6.X diesels so I think you may want to rethink the torque chart approach to my request of a real world pull. http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/pulloff2006c.htm

If dyno's are gospel why do they still have actual competitions. Drag races, ovals, hill climbs and such?

Still looking for any takers to my pulling comparison listed above.

[Jumbo_Cranium]

You didnt prove anything, you did not pull the same load with both trucks, thats what you keep wanting someone here to do to prove it. And like you have been told repeatedly, the 7.3 is 2 generations behind the times with much lower HP and Torque ratings. You say you dont recognize paper charts but then you say it would be helpful to have a chart to identify the declining torque rating

Here is the Cummins curve, which you dont believe but you want to refer to anyway.


Believe it or not, Peak Torque from 1500 to 2800 rpm


You do know how a torque curve chart is developed don't you? Ever hear of a Dynamometer? They are not just drawn by some egg head in a lab. You say you want someone to crunch numbers to tell you the torque, you gotta have some numbers to start with dude. Where do you think you get the HP numbers to do the torque calculations? From the chart developed by the dyno tests! So you take the horsepower times 5252 divided by rpm to get torque. Simple man.

So, speaking for the Cummins, at 2600 rpm it is making approximately 320 horsepower. The dyno says so, its not a number that you pulled out of your a$$. 320*5252/2600= 646.4 ft/lbs or torque. Thats at about 85 mph.

Do the numbers work for your 2200rpm questions? Lets see. According to the Dyno, not your gut, the Cummins puts out about 270 hp at 2200 rpm. 270*5252/2200= 645 ft/lbs. So it works, gee ain't math fun?

Now if this doesn't answer your questions I dont know what will. Do we have to crunch the numbers starting with HP ratings that you think you know? Or do we do them with the numbers established by the dyno?



So, you wont believe the dyno, you wont believe the charts, but you feel qualified to tell what modification should be made to a truck to apply the stated torque at highway speeds. ROFL you are a card. When you keep making posts like this you just show you have no idea what you are talking about.

edited for typos

[ponie]

So the 7.3 turbo chipped sucks over the new 6.6s. Ok if you say so.

I do not recognize any validity in HP and Torqe ratings on paper. Most any deisel owners here act like the tricked out 7.3 would run off and leave the 8.1 an I already have disproven that myth. If your numbers are accurate, the 8.1 and the 7.3 Deisel should be comparible with a loaded pull and I discovered they are nearly 30% separate in speed.

If you or anyone else is able to crunch numbers, help us to determine this math exersize. If the new 6.6L Deisel are producing 650ftlb of torqe at 1600rpm, how much torqe do they thow off at 75mph or approximatly XXXX rpm (2200 as a guess)

In other words, what is the torqe of the 6.6 liter at 75mph?

It would be helpfull to have a chart to identify the declining torqe rating as RPM increases to 3000 or more.

I think the 6 speed autos will help lower the RPM but a split rearend would allow the diesel to apply the stated torqe out on the highway.

[woodrow]

ponie wrote:
Drove the 7.3 liter for a few days hauling a small tractor for a project I have. You really have to be well into the RPM for power and after a quick burst it’s pretty much gone.

The whirling turbo sounds impressive and it fun to drive empty, but their is not comparison for pulling a heavy load.

Unless the new 6.6 liter diesels have a significant performance advantage over this 7.3 turbo I can understand why no one has stepped forward for a comparison pull against the 8.1L.

Not only are there several that have surpassed the 8.1 in various ways with their diesel, the last 7.3 made had 250 HP @2600 RPM and 505 lb/ft @ 1600 RPM, whereas the 6.6 has 360hp and 650 TQ, 110 hp and 145 tq more..you do the math. the late model 5.9, the newer 6.7 and the 6.0/6.4 powerstroke will destroy any big block towing/mileage/resale etc...it's proven end of story. by the way I-95 is a molehill at best.

[ponie]

Drove the 7.3 liter for a few days hauling a small tractor for a project I have. You really have to be well into the RPM for power and after a quick burst it’s pretty much gone.

The whirling turbo sounds impressive and it fun to drive empty, but their is not comparison for pulling a heavy load.

Unless the new 6.6 liter diesels have a significant performance advantage over this 7.3 turbo I can understand why no one has stepped forward for a comparison pull against the 8.1L.

[8_1_Van]

I passed all the diesel pickups coming down I-95 to Florida today.:B
The 8.1 was amazing and the AC had to be set on low or else we would get frostbite and that was with a 100° heat factor. The diesels are great but comparing the cost of engine options the 8.1 was a bargain. GM screwed up by dumping it in the 2500/3500 trucks. It's still vailable in the 2009 4500-8500 medium duty and Workhorse MH chassis.

[Jumbo_Cranium]

Get the Cummins and you wont have near the worries.

[marty649]

Jarlaxle wrote:
But the 7.3 is an easy 300,000+ miler. The 6.0 is, if you're lucky, good for 30-35K before something blows up. It's the modern version of the 350 Olds.

Absolutely, my wife still wishes she had her 7.3L back, never had a problem with it other than a fuel leak that developed 15 minutes after the warrantee ran out. We never had a 6.0L but know several people that did, both had problems.