Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Hannibal]

Dang Marty, yer startin' to sound more like yer from Virginy than Warshington! They's wantin' ta outlaw education round here! Win ye git up thar, I'll far off ma twelv gage you lemme no if you kin see it. If ye can, it's flat! If not, better duck! That 12 gage got a lot o' tark!:B

[GACamper]

Oh No! Now there you all go again confusing everybody. :h

[blt2ski]

Hannibal wrote:
I know it ain't flat 'cause I need 2nd gear to get up from the low spots!:B

oh, so it isn't flat?!?!?!?! man o man! ain't life grand! Here I thunk it were flat! so thems mtns around here make it so it ain't phlat? oh man! Guess I'll have to climb Mt Rainer agin to vereephy that!:R:R:R

Marty

[Hannibal]

I know it ain't flat 'cause I need 2nd gear to get up from the low spots!:B

[blt2ski]

Steve.......... what you mean the earth is not flat! dang it, its NOT?!?!?!

how can you be so sure. I know its flat, my mommy said so!

Marty

[Hannibal]

Bert, I'm with you. I'm just hangin' loose knowing the difference. If some want to believe work over time such as miles per hour isn't the definition of horsepower, you'll never convince them otherwise. Once the myth is taught, facts become meaningless. Just be glad we've all (some very reluctantly) accepted that the earth is in fact not flat. The wars and lost lives just to get past "step one"... The definition of horsepower is way down the list. We'll not get there in our lifetimes.:B

[Tarantula]

I wish I knew where to look for them. I've not seen them yet. Your intelligent posts or facts, as it were. I'd like to see them.

[BertP]

What facts, Tarantula? I seem to be the only one in this conversation providing facts. All I have seen from you so far is innuendo and hearsay. No facts, unfortunately.

Bert

[Tarantula]

:E Bertp's Credo: My mind is made up; Don't confuse me with facts!!!:S

[BertP]

And???? All I have ever said is that you need HP to do anything. If the engine is at low rpm, then you need high torque to get the power. If the engine is at high rpm, then you need low torque to get the same power. How does the JD quote above contradict that?????? Notice that they did not say the it is "torque alone" just that there is high torque at low rpm - and therefore, high HP at low rpm.

Bert

[Tarantula]

My last post for your benefit, Bert. This came from a John Deere site. It does mention 'torque.

"1960 John Deere 630 Standard tractor pullYou can throttle these old two cylinder John Deere tractors right down near idle because of the phenomenal amount of torque they produce at such low RPM’s. ...
john-deeretractors.com/blog/1960-john-deere-630-standard-tractor-pull - 23k - Cached - Similar pages"

[BertP]

No one questioned what it is called. But, in order to lift the front wheels of any vehicle requires power. Regardless of what rpm the engine is turning, it requires power to lift the front end.

Bert

[john_bet]

THE FRONT WHEELS OF A TRACTOR COMING OFF THE GROUND WHILE PULLING IS CALLED WEIGHT TRANSFER PURE AND SIMPLE. ANY FARMER UNDERSTANDS THAT. SOME CITY SLICKERS WHO NEVER OPERATED HEAVY EQUIPMENT DON'T.

[malibooty]

First let me say Both have thier place but when I bought in early 08 diesel fuel was at the highest ever. The Duramax was $7K more for the exact same truck and from what I was hearing the new smog equipment made fuel mpg very comparable and not as great as once protrayed. I pull a 8Klb TT so how do I justify an increased $7K dollar ivestment that gets similiar gas milage and from The towing guide can only pull 500lb more tt and 1300lbs more 5er. The gas engine also has more payload due to the diesel engine wieghing in excess of 700lbs more.

Now I know diesels pull awesome because I drive them everyday at work. But for me the gas was the best I could do in my opinion for my family and my situation. My situation changes all the time so a diesel may be in my future but not now. I really dont want to cummute/own a F-450 for that 18Klb 5er I may own in 5-10 years

[BertP]

At the risk of being picky, that tractor was not at idle. An engine produces no more power at idle than is required to run its accessories. It can - as is apparent in this video - develop power at idle rpm but not at idle. By definition, an engine at idle is producing no power.

So, how much power is that engine developing in the video? I don't know for sure but it is enough to raise the front wheels slightly. But to say that it is "all torque" is incorrect. If it was all torque and no HP, then nothing would be turning, including the engine. Since we know that that is not possible in this case, then there must be HP being developed. Not much, I suspect, but enough to raise the front wheels.

Bert