Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Hannibal]

Not even going to argue with such misinformation. Here's the facts from the masters.
https://ohe.cat.com/cda/files/287140/7/LEGT5364.pdf

Not to take anything away from OneWatt's ride, It's a beautiful thing! just the misinformation that's spread around hearsay forums...;)

We brought our new Escape LTD home tonight. It's also a beautiful thing!:B

[Jackjagt]

Keep in mind the inherent superiority of Diesel over gas engines.
Gas engines only talk about horsepower because that all the can talk about. Horsepower determines top speed. So you can go 200kph! Where & when would you do this?
Diesels however produce goobs of TORQUE!
And torque determines acceleration!
So whatever speed you want to go or can go, Diesel will get you there first!
Plus, Diesel will get you way better fuel economy and way longer engine life (no gasoline to wash the cylinder walls bare with every stroke!)
What's the down side of Diesel? They cost more to make but less to operate over the long term.
Then why are most cars equiped with gas engines? It's cheaper!

[RFOneWatt]

Thanks Guys - It makes a great daily driver and for light off-road / winter driving it's perfect. It's also nice if we ever need to pull a SMALL trailer. I can't believe it's rated to pull 5000LBs though. Very scary since it has the engine to do it, but not the wheelbase. I mean C'mon, the vehicle only weighs 4100LBS or so.

We'll be seeing A LOT of small vehicles with diesels in the US very soon. It's about time.

-T

[Jarlaxle]

That is a nice one...I've only ever seen one CRD, and it was painted a rather unattractive gray; the black is much better. But I still can't get all that excited about a Jeep without a solid front axle. 😞

[Hannibal]

Nice looking Jeep there OneWatt! Seems the smaller suv's are becoming more and more popular. We'll be picking up our 2010 steel blue Ford Escape LTD Friday. No diesel but with the 240hp 3.0L V6 she'll have plenty of power and around 20mpg city/ 28mpg highway. We contemplated the hybrid but battery power is only good for up to 44mph. We go faster than that through the car wash! A diesel option would be nice but no avail. Maybe once people get used to the quiet smoke free diesels if the few don't ruin it for the many, there will be enough demand for them to be produced.

[RFOneWatt]

Ahhh! The VM Motori Turbo Diesel 🙂

The wifes daily driver.. only 10,000 made and sold in USA.

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited 2.8L Turbo Diesel

She's pretty safe in this vehicle. Since it's a Limited it has every safety feature available and is pretty hefty @ 4100 LBS. Great mileage - 30-32 MPG e-way. I have never towed anything with it but I have done a bit of off roading and the torque is phenomenal. Add a brake controller and this thing could certainly tow something quite dangerous without a problem!

MOST importantly, the wife loves it as much as I do.

[rcpd34]

zuley wrote:
Let me first start off by saying I work for Chrysler in Canada so yes I am somewhat biased. Back in 2007 and 2008 Chrysler produced the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Mercedes 3.0 liter turbo diesel as an option. This was to be sold in the USA only and not to be offered to the Canadian market. Sales in the US tanked. Americans were not interested in the diesel engine. Sales of the G/ Cherokees using the gas engine were strong. Chrysler had contracted with Benz to supply a vast quantity of these engines. In an attempt to use up the diesel engines Chrysler was committed to the vehicle was offered in Canada with the diesel option. I believe it was a $3700 option. Sales of the gas engine WK plummeted north of the boarder. The diesel Cherokee was the rage in Canada. At the time I was driving a Jeep Liberty with a 3.7 liter gas engine in it. This thing passed everything but a gas station. It towed our Coleman Cheyenne without any difficulty. There was very little difference between fuel economy whether towing or not. On a good tank of fuel we were very lucky to get 400 kilometers at a cost of about $60.00 to fill. We purchased a 2008 diesel Cherokee two summers ago. I filled the Cherokee up yesterday and reset the trip meter with 742 km on it. The cost of the fill up was $67.00. We no longer have the Cheyenne but have upgraded to a Fleetwood Arcadia. The gas engine was very quick to gear down and rev very high going up any sort of a hill or steep grade. The diesel does not even burp.
I am very quick to recognize the added maintenance expense of operating the diesel. Oil changes are triple the cost but having said that the oil change interval is double so there is not really a big difference. For anyone who trades every couple of years stick with gas. You wont realize the savings. After about the third year the savings will start to add up very quickly. A two year old diesel WK is selling for as much now as the vehicle was worth new.

Put the diesel in a Wrangler and i'll buy one tomorrow.

[zuley]

Let me first start off by saying I work for Chrysler in Canada so yes I am somewhat biased. Back in 2007 and 2008 Chrysler produced the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Mercedes 3.0 liter turbo diesel as an option. This was to be sold in the USA only and not to be offered to the Canadian market. Sales in the US tanked. Americans were not interested in the diesel engine. Sales of the G/ Cherokees using the gas engine were strong. Chrysler had contracted with Benz to supply a vast quantity of these engines. In an attempt to use up the diesel engines Chrysler was committed to the vehicle was offered in Canada with the diesel option. I believe it was a $3700 option. Sales of the gas engine WK plummeted north of the boarder. The diesel Cherokee was the rage in Canada. At the time I was driving a Jeep Liberty with a 3.7 liter gas engine in it. This thing passed everything but a gas station. It towed our Coleman Cheyenne without any difficulty. There was very little difference between fuel economy whether towing or not. On a good tank of fuel we were very lucky to get 400 kilometers at a cost of about $60.00 to fill. We purchased a 2008 diesel Cherokee two summers ago. I filled the Cherokee up yesterday and reset the trip meter with 742 km on it. The cost of the fill up was $67.00. We no longer have the Cheyenne but have upgraded to a Fleetwood Arcadia. The gas engine was very quick to gear down and rev very high going up any sort of a hill or steep grade. The diesel does not even burp.
I am very quick to recognize the added maintenance expense of operating the diesel. Oil changes are triple the cost but having said that the oil change interval is double so there is not really a big difference. For anyone who trades every couple of years stick with gas. You wont realize the savings. After about the third year the savings will start to add up very quickly. A two year old diesel WK is selling for as much now as the vehicle was worth new.

[RFOneWatt]

For what it's worth, last fall I traded in my 2007 5.4l Expedition with 6000 miles on it for a 2010 F250 6.4L.

Reason?

While traveling out west last year (in the mountains of Wyoming/Montana/Utah, which I frequent often.) I had to pull over 3-4 times due to overheating.

Well, not actually - the computer warned me WELL? in advance and I was keeping an eagle eye on the gauges because I KNEW I was pushing it to its limits. Yes, I was correctly equipped, loaded and well below the towing capacity of the vehicle, didn't have the A/C on, etc. As an added note, I was also running all synthetic fluids. (I expected this vehicle to be my Tow Vehicle for many years to come.)

You may say, well, if you were watching the gauges you'd have noticed the engine or trans getting hot, right? Well... Not really. I noticed the engine temp. gauge climb 1/2 to 1 notch and then about five seconds later the temp gauges ALL slammed into the red, the computer illuminated all of the idiot lights and told me to pull over immediately. What if there was nowhere to pull over?

Yeah, sure, I probably had more time than I thought but that's just too close for comfort for me. For the margin of safety I desire I MUST have more wiggle room. (Not to mention the poor saps stuck behind the newbie while I was looking for a place to pull over.)

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY wanted to keep my Expy (I've had five and have LOVED them all) and it did absolutely wonderful on the flatter stretches of interstate but once you hit the mountains and some of those grades it's a whole different ball game. (Let's not even get into issues that could come up OFF road)

I'm sure a V10 would have taken up the slack but since I'm going to be hanging onto the new TV for a long, long time I figured I needed a vehicle that can deliver a consistent amount of torque for quite a long time w/o exploding. 😉

It's also nice to know that eventually when I do decide to upgrade the trailer my TV will be able to handle it.

Moral of the story? No big hills (mountains) no problem. Big mountains/steep grades? Big problem. AND do the math yourself. Don't believe what the dealers tell you!!

Horsepower gets ya there, torque KEEPS ya there! 🙂

But that's just my experience and opinion.

(No, I didn't read all 146 replies - I've read enough gas/vs diesel pissing matches. Each has their own application - I just wanted to share my experience)

-T

The (old) TV and current TT..

[dieselfreak21]

First I will say I am very partial to diesels, but gas motors do have their place. It all depends on usage of the vehicle and how long you want to keep and how you want to travel. Here is what I have learned over the years for anyone that is considering or wants some information, on dealing with 3/4 and above, as my opinion is that unless your are towing a pop up a 3/4 and above it mandatory. I am no expert but here is goes.

Gas-They have come along way in recent years. They make decent power and torque and if you are religious on maintence you can get 150k-200k reliably out of them. Gas is more dependant on gear rations, based on the application. That starts their possible down fall in comparision. Gas needs RPM's to make power and torque and the only way to get it is with taller gears. At that point you are making a sacrifice in your mpg not a large one but they are in direct corrilation. Good points: Gasers are cheaper on the inital price. Oil changes are cheaper on a per cost basis they just need more of them if you want a healthy engine and you tow alot. The new ones get about the same mileage empty as the new "green diesel" do. They are easier on drive line parts as they don't have the low end torque a diesel does but will still get your load moving and in some cases accelerate faster than a diesel. If you don't tow alot and like a new vehicle every couple of years they are probably the best in terms of cost for that application. Cons: If you tow heavy and alot you need a taller gear set and that cost fuel. You also need to do oil changes more frequently. Spark Plugs- need I say more. Fuel milage towing will be worse than a diesel. Don't hold value as well once you get near 100k mark. More than likely hills will cause you to slow down more than a diesel. They require more shifting to stay in the sweet spot. Stacks look goofy on a gasser and black smoke out of them is a bad thing.

Diesels-If you want low end torque this is were they rule. Until the govt started forcing "green" diesels they would usuaully get better mpg. The fuel used to be cheaper until the govt mandated ULSD. Power possibilies are limitless. If you want a motor to out last the rest of your truck the diesel is king. They would be the choice if keep a truck long term and tow alot. Pros: Better towing mileage. Oil change intervals are longer than a gasser even when towing heavy. Logevity. Better cooling capcity. The diesel trucks come with slightly larger and better drivelines, which will last longer if maintained and driven correctly. Higher Resale value past 100K. If you want to increase power the $ per HP is a better value. Hills are not a problem in most cases. The rattle. Black Smoke is good thing and stacks!
Cons: The rattle and the black smoke. Govt mandates on the new motor and the ULSD. Maintence cost can be more due to larger volumes of fluids. Initial cost. Slighly rougher ride. Takes a while to make up the premium on inital price and maintence. Price of fuel now is usually more than gas. If something in the fuel system fails it isn't cheap the fix. Weighs more so affect pay load capacity. Slower acceleration in stock form.

I'm sure I am missing loads of information but these are some of decision points I have used when the decision time came up. I went diesel and partial to Cummins, and that is the only reason I would have a dodge after the dodge problems with my 03. My 99 with 300k is still my best truck. Once I get sick enough of the dodge body my CR Cummins might find its self in a Ford Super Duty as IMHO that would be the ultimate vehicle.

Hope this helps someone and it wasn't to partial.

[larry_kruzan]

Coyotecprs wrote:
Another option to consider would be switching to a wheelchair equipped Motorhome and this would allow you to get the mini-van equipped for wheelchair for daily use as well. Most of the used ones for sell have probably only been equipped for passenger in a wheelchair.

Thanks for the suggestion AND taking the time to think about my little issue. Sadly my big 6'3" frame is just too big for the pocket vans. 😉 I did drive one for a couple years and never could get over the feeling that I was "putting it on - like a pair of shoes.

We did buy a used motorhome and cut our RVing teeth doing exactly as you suggest. I think if we had bought a new one to start with it would have been a lot cheaper in the long run. Live and learn.

For us, the TT and TV is a much better route and I get to have a TV that I fit in.

Thanks again for the help,
Larry

[Coyotecprs]

Another option to consider would be switching to a wheelchair equipped Motorhome and this would allow you to get the mini-van equipped for wheelchair for daily use as well. Most of the used ones for sell have probably only been equipped for passenger in a wheelchair.

[larry_kruzan]

You would think that the dually would be a option but it actually has a lower tow capacity since the weight of the duals comes off the rateing. I was surprised too. It is so lame for a truck its size.

Today I towed from Boulder City (south of Vegas) to Hawthorn NV (south of Reno), over several 5k to 6k+ foot humps and would have loved to have had the power of a diesel on the few times when the v10 was pulling down and heating up a little.

Dealer confirmed that the 2011 Ford vans will not have the option - so I'll have to buy a 2010 if I can get one. I don't want to get rid of this one so soon but I need more torque to play out here.

Larry

[Rollochrome]

diesel

i'll never go back to gassers

[Bionic_Man]

Sprinter tow capacity is a joke. The Dodge website lists max towing at 5000 pounds, but with the 3.0l V6 only rated at 154 HP and 280 lb/ft of torque it would be anemic towing anywhere near that 5000 pound mark.