Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Jarlaxle]

transamz9 wrote:

Taco wrote:
I just bought a new gas truck. Here is why.

I cannot afford to always own a vehicle that is in warranty. can't buy a new 40k vehicle every 4-5 years. I read the horror stories here and other places about the repair bills on the diesels. some up in the 10k plus range. when they do break they plain cost lots more to fix outside of warranty.

The other reason is that it costs 8k or so more to start. then factor in the finance costs on the 8k so add maybe another 1000. Then add about 500 worth of DEF over 125k miles. then factor slightly increased maint costs, and the 40 cents of so premium of diesel fuel. also for me I pay personal property tax on the vehicle so I pay property tax on that 8k premium

I keep them for 10-12 years and will put maybe 125-150k on it. neither gas nor diesel will be likely to wear out in that period. the diesel would get about 3 mpg better over that period and will have decreased fuel cost but would be offset by the all the additional expenses outlined earlier.

In towing power differences read the pickuptrucks.com shootouts to see a full throttle measured comparison. the gas engines towing in the 10-12k trailer range are plenty powerful enough to maintain reasonable speed on any interstate grade. You just have to be willing to press the pedal. yes the engine will make some noise while you do this but it isn't hurting anything.


Does a diesel make sense towing over 12k absolutely. under 12k i don't think it makes sense. But this is America, if you want a diesel get it if you can afford it, it will tow any weight better but I don't see a need for it under 12k given it's financial disadvantages.

You also have to remember that that diesel truck is also going to be worth 8-10,000 more when you go to sell it in 10-12 years.;)

Actually...I would not be surprised to see values crash when the emission diesels start getting older and having expensive problems.

[Taco]

I'm with hannibal. If you really look at the pickuptrucks.com test. don't just look at the time or top speed. look at where the time was made or lost. look at the rate of accelerations.

The diesels have it down low. Their tests were started completely on grade. The diesel pretty much made all their advantage in the first 50 yards while the gasses was winding up to it's powerband. In the last stages of the climb the gassers were accelerating at a greater rate than the diesels.

Remember that when we tow on the real roads we sure try our best not to stop in the middle of a 9 percent grade.

My guess is that from a roll on the highway that either new gas or new diesel will hold 65 mph up 7-9 percent starting at the bottom at 65. That is what we need it to do. 99+ percent of the people on this board don't drag race up hills towing trailers.

I will just throw this out there. I have a 6.0 2500hd if anybody has a suitable bumper tow trailer in the 13k range and wants to meet me somewhere suitable along I77 where it has that big climb into VA out of NC and see if it will hold 65 up it I'm game. The only thing I ask is that is has to be when I am available to do it. Which is the couple of times a year I go to ride hatfield mccoy trails in WV. Since I will only have to go 50 miles out of my way. I will be going somewhere between middle of sept and end of oct this year.

[Hannibal]

You sleep well with that thought there speedy! Pickuptrucks.com came to a different conclusion and that's with newer more powerful diesels. The diesels barely had time to wipe the smirk off their mugs before the gassers came roaring by. Three thousand pounds more isn't going to change those results much.:B

[64thunderbolt]

It comes down to what will do the job. I'm sure on a 9 mile stretch of 6/7% I will take my 13K toyhauler up and have lunch before a gasser will be there with the same wgt.

FYI my 7.3 turns 3800 rpm.

[dfranks]

Hannibal wrote:

dfranks wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
Absolutely! The Hemi runs 4200rpm 60mph in 2nd gear multiplying torque X 1.67 up the grades. The Cummins with all it's torque is rpm limited to 3k~rpm. That's too bad.

Is that, 60 mph towing? Or empty. Honestly, my 05 Hemi wouldnt get to 4200rpm towing my 9k trailer(in 2nd) up a 6-8% grade. It just didn't have the torque. God help me if I had to slow down for a corner pulling a grade like that.

You know what I'm talking about.

Heading east out of Revelstoke, just before Rogers pass for example.
That one will show you the pucker factor going up or down...

Of course it's 60mph towing. I'm not aware of any 8% grades on interstate highways around the southeast. On state roads where the grades can be higher, yes it slowed us down to a crawl. With both the Cummins and the Hemi. The Hemi still towed faster with 100 more horsepower.

Uhhm yeah, maybe. But, up here in the mountains, non interstate , 2 lane only hwys with twisty roads 6% grades. The diesel will out shine the gas in these conditions . Throw in the EB and you wouldn't even consider gas.
Where, you live I can appreciate you , not needing a medium duty pickup truck.

[transamz9]

Hannibal wrote:

Paul Clancy wrote:
Where I live gas trucks plummet on resale price, diesels don't. If you're reselling gas is a bad choice here. If you're buying used maybe not.

Sounds like an even more compelling reason to buy a gas powered pickup. Got any examples of duplicate trucks with gas and diesel for sale? Plummet is a pretty extreme description.

Here's two gas trucks with low miles:
2001 F250 gas
Another 2001 F250 gas

Here's a Diesel:
2001 F250 diesel
Another Diesel 2000 model

[Hannibal]

Paul Clancy wrote:
Where I live gas trucks plummet on resale price, diesels don't. If you're reselling gas is a bad choice here. If you're buying used maybe not.

Sounds like an even more compelling reason to buy a gas powered pickup. Got any examples of duplicate trucks with gas and diesel for sale? Plummet is a pretty extreme description.

[Hannibal]

dfranks wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
Absolutely! The Hemi runs 4200rpm 60mph in 2nd gear multiplying torque X 1.67 up the grades. The Cummins with all it's torque is rpm limited to 3k~rpm. That's too bad.

Is that, 60 mph towing? Or empty. Honestly, my 05 Hemi wouldnt get to 4200rpm towing my 9k trailer(in 2nd) up a 6-8% grade. It just didn't have the torque. God help me if I had to slow down for a corner pulling a grade like that.

You know what I'm talking about.

Heading east out of Revelstoke, just before Rogers pass for example.
That one will show you the pucker factor going up or down...

Of course it's 60mph towing. I'm not aware of any 8% grades on interstate highways around the southeast. On state roads where the grades can be higher, yes it slowed us down to a crawl. With both the Cummins and the Hemi. The Hemi still towed faster with 100 more horsepower.

[Paul_Clancy]

Where I live gas trucks plummet on resale price, diesels don't. If you're reselling gas is a bad choice here. If you're buying used maybe not.

[transamz9]

Taco wrote:
I just bought a new gas truck. Here is why.

I cannot afford to always own a vehicle that is in warranty. can't buy a new 40k vehicle every 4-5 years. I read the horror stories here and other places about the repair bills on the diesels. some up in the 10k plus range. when they do break they plain cost lots more to fix outside of warranty.

The other reason is that it costs 8k or so more to start. then factor in the finance costs on the 8k so add maybe another 1000. Then add about 500 worth of DEF over 125k miles. then factor slightly increased maint costs, and the 40 cents of so premium of diesel fuel. also for me I pay personal property tax on the vehicle so I pay property tax on that 8k premium

I keep them for 10-12 years and will put maybe 125-150k on it. neither gas nor diesel will be likely to wear out in that period. the diesel would get about 3 mpg better over that period and will have decreased fuel cost but would be offset by the all the additional expenses outlined earlier.

In towing power differences read the pickuptrucks.com shootouts to see a full throttle measured comparison. the gas engines towing in the 10-12k trailer range are plenty powerful enough to maintain reasonable speed on any interstate grade. You just have to be willing to press the pedal. yes the engine will make some noise while you do this but it isn't hurting anything.


Does a diesel make sense towing over 12k absolutely. under 12k i don't think it makes sense. But this is America, if you want a diesel get it if you can afford it, it will tow any weight better but I don't see a need for it under 12k given it's financial disadvantages.

You also have to remember that that diesel truck is also going to be worth 8-10,000 more when you go to sell it in 10-12 years.;)

[dfranks]

Hannibal wrote:
Absolutely! The Hemi runs 4200rpm 60mph in 2nd gear multiplying torque X 1.67 up the grades. The Cummins with all it's torque is rpm limited to 3k~rpm. That's too bad.

Is that, 60 mph towing? Or empty. Honestly, my 05 Hemi wouldnt get to 4200rpm towing my 9k trailer(in 2nd) up a 6-8% grade. It just didn't have the torque. God help me if I had to slow down for a corner pulling a grade like that.

You know what I'm talking about.

Heading east out of Revelstoke, just before Rogers pass for example.
That one will show you the pucker factor going up or down...

[Madhatter1]

Please let the horse carcass be. After all, it has been through a lot.

[jevanb]

my 04 gasser hd6.0 sounded as if it was going to blow trying to maintain 70 up a large bridge where i live with the tt. the 6.6 can make it almost all the way up in 6th gear both get around the same milage towing on the flats but get in the hills and empty the diesel uses less fuel and feels safer

[asuperheat]

Sorry but if you look at the same year the diesels are going to win when it comes to performance towing. Compairing a new gas to a old diesel is not apples to apples. All of the newer diesels are at levels that gas cant yet compete with. When you look at tq. numbers nearly 2x the current model gas motors and equil or better hp numbers even without driving one you must agree they are built to pull. Untill they start building large v-8 supercharged gasers I believe it will stay that way. You also must concider that gas especialy diluted with ethenol has less enrgy than diesel and diesels run higher copresion ratios alowing them to be more efficent. It just is what it is. That does not make a gas motor a bad tow vehicle for the right trailer. I had a v-10 and loved it but for towing heavy my diesel by far out performs it.

[Hannibal]

I'll agree with the mileage. My '95 Cummins Ram with auto/3.55 hovered around 20mpg highway if I kept the speed limit. Where it really shined was in town. It gave 18.5~ where the Hemi gave 14~. The '95 was only rated to tow 6500 lbs. Anyone around long enough might remember the Trailer Life tow down in '94. The Cummins, PSD and GM 6.5 towed 7k lb TT's. 40-45 up the grades balls out. The Dodge V10, GM 454 and Ford 460 towed 12k lb 5th wheels and ran faster up the grades. It wasn't until a few years ago that diesels had the power advantage over gas in stock form. Until then, they had fuel efficiency and longevity. Not too sure they even have that anymore.