Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[rcpd34]

Sport45 wrote:

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

I've had gassers that would do that.

But once the choke was fixed it cleared right up.

You tend to get a lot of smoke when you're overfueling. Are those examples diesels that are getting high mpg's?

No, it's an example of wasted fuel, excessive pollution and imaturity. This is the sort of thing that gives diesels a bad name and has Prius drivers calling for more restrictions.

[Sport45]

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

I've had gassers that would do that.

But once the choke was fixed it cleared right up.

You tend to get a lot of smoke when you're overfueling. Are those examples diesels that are getting high mpg's?

[waynec1957]

OhhWell wrote:

rcpd34 wrote:

waynec1957 wrote:

Taco wrote:
You think you bought so much extra power for 8k but what it really shakes out to is only a couple extra mph up a hill.

I think it’s a little more complex than that. I’m probably the dumbest guy participating in this discussion from a “technical” aspect. I don’t know all the internal workings of gas OR diesel engines, but here is what I came up with when comparing the EXACT same trucks 2013 Silverado, 2500HD, 2WD, CC, standard bed (6’6”), LS work truck—one 6.0l Vortec, the other 6.6l Duramax/Allison. Keep in mind that when I was making this comparison I was looking for a truck to pull (eventually) a 9,500 lb. fully loaded (give or take) 35’ TT, knowing that at times this truck would also be a “daily driver”.

The gas version of the truck has roughly 350 more pounds of payload (because of the extra weight of the 6.6l engine).

Max conventional trailering for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 13,000 lbs.
Max conventional trailering for the 6.0l version with 3.73 gears is 9,700 lbs. (It’s 13,000 lbs. with 4.10, but then it’s not the EXACT same truck is it?)

Max 5th wheel trailering for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 17,400 lbs.
Max 5th wheel trailering for the 6.0l version upgraded to the 4.10 gears is 14,300 lbs. (3k lbs. less than the 6.0l with 3.73)

Cross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 24,500 lbs.
Cross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for the 6.0l version with 3.73 gears is 20,500 lbs. (4k lbs. less than the 6.6l)

Horsepower for the 6.6l—397 hp @ 3000 rpm
Horsepower for the 6.0l—360 hp @ 5400 rpm

Torque for the 6.6l—765 lbs. @ 1600 rpm
Torque for the 6.0l—380 lbs. @ 4200 rpm

Another key factor for me was the Duramax/Allison has an exhaust brake and the Vortec does not.

These numbers are factory published numbers. They’re out there for anybody to take a look at. This is a straight up apples to apples comparison. The ONLY difference between these two trucks is one has the 6.0l Vortec and the other is a 6.6l Duramax/Allison. According to the factory, on THIS particular truck, you get more horsepower, more torque, more GCVWR (by 4k lbs.), more conventional trailering capacity (by 3,300 lbs.) and more 5th wheel trailering capacity (3,100 lbs.) with the 6.6l Duramax/Allison versus the 6.0l Vortec.

Regarding gas mileage, I’m only seeing a 2.5-3.5 mpg difference between my old 5.3l and this 6.6l. Given there’s just under 3k on the 6.6l and that’s been on winter fuel, I don’t think that’s too bad. Having never owned a 6.0l I can’t make a comparison here but I seriously doubt it does any better than my old 5.3l.

As far as gas mileage towing, as far as I can tell that seems to be the one area where everyone agrees…diesel does better.

To me, all that adds up to more than just a couple more mph going uphill.

This is a good common sense approach that explains the differences and advantages in laymans terms. However, the haters will be along shortly to diassemble everything you said and again point out why gas is superior to diesel. :S Simply amazing. Ayone have a dead horse we can beat on some more? :?

I can't argue anything he said. The 6.6l is a larger and more powerful engine than the 6.0l gasser and has a turbocharger. I personally haven't ever argued against diesels getting more miles to the gallon. I have just said that they are losing their advantage these days and that diesel fuel does cost more.

Gassers have less torque and really need the lower gearing to provide a similar experience to the diesels. By similar I mean assuming that someone disabled their tachometer and wore earplugs.

I agree about the higher cost of diesel fuel and I knew that going in. But I weighed that against everything else and was/am prepared to pay the difference.

At the same time, I'm one of these guys that keeps records on what I spend, so I have something to compare with. I was expecting to see a huge difference in my overall fuel costs but it hasn't been all that bad. Doing the same driving I've always done I'm seeing about $56 more per month, or about $14 more per week in fuel costs. Diesel in my area over the last 4 months has averaged between 60-80 cents per gallon more than unleaded.

Considering I was driving 1/2 ton Silverado with a 5.3l before, and that's what I'm comparing my diesel to, I don't think it's done too bad. I realize $56 is $56, but I'm talking about a HUGE difference in trucks. I'm pretty sure there aren't very many (if any) 2500 HD, 6.0l Vortecs out there getting the kind of mileage I was getting out of my old 1/2 ton so I'm pretty sure the difference between the 6.0l and the 6.6l is even less. The other thing is, I'm told the more miles I put on this Duramax, the better mpg will get.

But it's like everything else...your mileage may vary.

[bkirkpatrick]

OhhWell wrote:

bkirkpatrick wrote:

jevanb wrote:
and he is a police officer from his info,

And above the law too :W

And a Master of Photoshop as well it seems!

Yes and also at stirring the pot.

[OhhWell]

rcpd34 wrote:

waynec1957 wrote:

Taco wrote:
You think you bought so much extra power for 8k but what it really shakes out to is only a couple extra mph up a hill.

I think it’s a little more complex than that. I’m probably the dumbest guy participating in this discussion from a “technical” aspect. I don’t know all the internal workings of gas OR diesel engines, but here is what I came up with when comparing the EXACT same trucks 2013 Silverado, 2500HD, 2WD, CC, standard bed (6’6”), LS work truck—one 6.0l Vortec, the other 6.6l Duramax/Allison. Keep in mind that when I was making this comparison I was looking for a truck to pull (eventually) a 9,500 lb. fully loaded (give or take) 35’ TT, knowing that at times this truck would also be a “daily driver”.

The gas version of the truck has roughly 350 more pounds of payload (because of the extra weight of the 6.6l engine).

Max conventional trailering for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 13,000 lbs.
Max conventional trailering for the 6.0l version with 3.73 gears is 9,700 lbs. (It’s 13,000 lbs. with 4.10, but then it’s not the EXACT same truck is it?)

Max 5th wheel trailering for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 17,400 lbs.
Max 5th wheel trailering for the 6.0l version upgraded to the 4.10 gears is 14,300 lbs. (3k lbs. less than the 6.0l with 3.73)

Cross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 24,500 lbs.
Cross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for the 6.0l version with 3.73 gears is 20,500 lbs. (4k lbs. less than the 6.6l)

Horsepower for the 6.6l—397 hp @ 3000 rpm
Horsepower for the 6.0l—360 hp @ 5400 rpm

Torque for the 6.6l—765 lbs. @ 1600 rpm
Torque for the 6.0l—380 lbs. @ 4200 rpm

Another key factor for me was the Duramax/Allison has an exhaust brake and the Vortec does not.

These numbers are factory published numbers. They’re out there for anybody to take a look at. This is a straight up apples to apples comparison. The ONLY difference between these two trucks is one has the 6.0l Vortec and the other is a 6.6l Duramax/Allison. According to the factory, on THIS particular truck, you get more horsepower, more torque, more GCVWR (by 4k lbs.), more conventional trailering capacity (by 3,300 lbs.) and more 5th wheel trailering capacity (3,100 lbs.) with the 6.6l Duramax/Allison versus the 6.0l Vortec.

Regarding gas mileage, I’m only seeing a 2.5-3.5 mpg difference between my old 5.3l and this 6.6l. Given there’s just under 3k on the 6.6l and that’s been on winter fuel, I don’t think that’s too bad. Having never owned a 6.0l I can’t make a comparison here but I seriously doubt it does any better than my old 5.3l.

As far as gas mileage towing, as far as I can tell that seems to be the one area where everyone agrees…diesel does better.

To me, all that adds up to more than just a couple more mph going uphill.

This is a good common sense approach that explains the differences and advantages in laymans terms. However, the haters will be along shortly to diassemble everything you said and again point out why gas is superior to diesel. :S Simply amazing. Ayone have a dead horse we can beat on some more? :?

I can't argue anything he said. The 6.6l is a larger and more powerful engine than the 6.0l gasser and has a turbocharger. I personally haven't ever argued against diesels getting more miles to the gallon. I have just said that they are losing their advantage these days and that diesel fuel does cost more.

Gassers have less torque and really need the lower gearing to provide a similar experience to the diesels. By similar I mean assuming that someone disabled their tachometer and wore earplugs.

[OhhWell]

bkirkpatrick wrote:

jevanb wrote:
and he is a police officer from his info,

And above the law too :W

And a Master of Photoshop as well it seems!

[bkirkpatrick]

jevanb wrote:
and he is a police officer from his info,

And above the law too :W

[bkirkpatrick]

rcpd34 wrote:
This is a good common sense approach that explains the differences and advantages in layman's terms. However, the haters will be along shortly to dissemble everything you said and again point out why gas is superior to diesel. :S Simply amazing. Anyone have a dead horse we can beat on some more? :?

I agree 100%. It should be moved to the first answer at the beginning of the post.

[rcpd34]

waynec1957 wrote:

Taco wrote:
You think you bought so much extra power for 8k but what it really shakes out to is only a couple extra mph up a hill.

I think it’s a little more complex than that. I’m probably the dumbest guy participating in this discussion from a “technical” aspect. I don’t know all the internal workings of gas OR diesel engines, but here is what I came up with when comparing the EXACT same trucks 2013 Silverado, 2500HD, 2WD, CC, standard bed (6’6”), LS work truck—one 6.0l Vortec, the other 6.6l Duramax/Allison. Keep in mind that when I was making this comparison I was looking for a truck to pull (eventually) a 9,500 lb. fully loaded (give or take) 35’ TT, knowing that at times this truck would also be a “daily driver”.

The gas version of the truck has roughly 350 more pounds of payload (because of the extra weight of the 6.6l engine).

Max conventional trailering for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 13,000 lbs.
Max conventional trailering for the 6.0l version with 3.73 gears is 9,700 lbs. (It’s 13,000 lbs. with 4.10, but then it’s not the EXACT same truck is it?)

Max 5th wheel trailering for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 17,400 lbs.
Max 5th wheel trailering for the 6.0l version upgraded to the 4.10 gears is 14,300 lbs. (3k lbs. less than the 6.0l with 3.73)

Cross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 24,500 lbs.
Cross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for the 6.0l version with 3.73 gears is 20,500 lbs. (4k lbs. less than the 6.6l)

Horsepower for the 6.6l—397 hp @ 3000 rpm
Horsepower for the 6.0l—360 hp @ 5400 rpm

Torque for the 6.6l—765 lbs. @ 1600 rpm
Torque for the 6.0l—380 lbs. @ 4200 rpm

Another key factor for me was the Duramax/Allison has an exhaust brake and the Vortec does not.

These numbers are factory published numbers. They’re out there for anybody to take a look at. This is a straight up apples to apples comparison. The ONLY difference between these two trucks is one has the 6.0l Vortec and the other is a 6.6l Duramax/Allison. According to the factory, on THIS particular truck, you get more horsepower, more torque, more GCVWR (by 4k lbs.), more conventional trailering capacity (by 3,300 lbs.) and more 5th wheel trailering capacity (3,100 lbs.) with the 6.6l Duramax/Allison versus the 6.0l Vortec.

Regarding gas mileage, I’m only seeing a 2.5-3.5 mpg difference between my old 5.3l and this 6.6l. Given there’s just under 3k on the 6.6l and that’s been on winter fuel, I don’t think that’s too bad. Having never owned a 6.0l I can’t make a comparison here but I seriously doubt it does any better than my old 5.3l.

As far as gas mileage towing, as far as I can tell that seems to be the one area where everyone agrees…diesel does better.

To me, all that adds up to more than just a couple more mph going uphill.

This is a good common sense approach that explains the differences and advantages in laymans terms. However, the haters will be along shortly to diassemble everything you said and again point out why gas is superior to diesel. :S Simply amazing. Ayone have a dead horse we can beat on some more? :?

[jevanb]

OhhWell wrote:

bkirkpatrick wrote:

OhhWell wrote:

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

Wow. I don't know if everyone will get that you posted that in humor. You did post it as a joke right?

Take it any way you want to... I was the driver.

Right... sure it was. Which was you, the redneck logger with the cummins or the foolish redneck 20 something with the ford 6.0? When did you decide to go full on troll?

and he is a police officer from his info,

[jevanb]

double post...

[jevanb]

06Fargo wrote:


Would a 400HP diesel class 8 truck hardly know my "big fiver" is hooked behind it, while a 400HP gas engine dually pick'em up will have a case of the frantics? Probley. Why is that? Doesn't seem to make sense. 400hp is 400hp...

I would think 2500ftlbs has something to do with it, I would bet a 360hp gas echo-boost eng could not even turn a 13 speed but I bet a 360hp diesel can because it happens every day,

[OhhWell]

bkirkpatrick wrote:

OhhWell wrote:

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

Wow. I don't know if everyone will get that you posted that in humor. You did post it as a joke right?

Take it any way you want to... I was the driver.

Right... sure it was. Which was you, the redneck logger with the cummins or the foolish redneck 20 something with the ford 6.0? When did you decide to go full on troll?

[waynec1957]

Taco wrote:
You think you bought so much extra power for 8k but what it really shakes out to is only a couple extra mph up a hill.

I think it’s a little more complex than that. I’m probably the dumbest guy participating in this discussion from a “technical” aspect. I don’t know all the internal workings of gas OR diesel engines, but here is what I came up with when comparing the EXACT same trucks 2013 Silverado, 2500HD, 2WD, CC, standard bed (6’6”), LS work truck—one 6.0l Vortec, the other 6.6l Duramax/Allison. Keep in mind that when I was making this comparison I was looking for a truck to pull (eventually) a 9,500 lb. fully loaded (give or take) 35’ TT, knowing that at times this truck would also be a “daily driver”.

The gas version of the truck has roughly 350 more pounds of payload (because of the extra weight of the 6.6l engine).

Max conventional trailering for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 13,000 lbs.
Max conventional trailering for the 6.0l version with 3.73 gears is 9,700 lbs. (It’s 13,000 lbs. with 4.10, but then it’s not the EXACT same truck is it?)

Max 5th wheel trailering for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 17,400 lbs.
Max 5th wheel trailering for the 6.0l version upgraded to the 4.10 gears is 14,300 lbs. (3k lbs. less than the 6.6l with 3.73)

Cross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for the 6.6l version with 3.73 gears is 24,500 lbs.
Cross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for the 6.0l version with 3.73 gears is 20,500 lbs. (4k lbs. less than the 6.6l)

Horsepower for the 6.6l—397 hp @ 3000 rpm
Horsepower for the 6.0l—360 hp @ 5400 rpm

Torque for the 6.6l—765 lbs. @ 1600 rpm
Torque for the 6.0l—380 lbs. @ 4200 rpm

Another key factor for me was the Duramax/Allison has an exhaust brake and the Vortec does not.

These numbers are factory published numbers. They’re out there for anybody to take a look at. This is a straight up apples to apples comparison. The ONLY difference between these two trucks is one has the 6.0l Vortec and the other is a 6.6l Duramax/Allison. According to the factory, on THIS particular truck, you get more horsepower, more torque, more GCVWR (by 4k lbs.), more conventional trailering capacity (by 3,300 lbs.) and more 5th wheel trailering capacity (3,100 lbs.) with the 6.6l Duramax/Allison versus the 6.0l Vortec.

Regarding gas mileage, I’m only seeing a 2.5-3.5 mpg difference between my old 5.3l and this 6.6l. Given there’s just under 3k on the 6.6l and that’s been on winter fuel, I don’t think that’s too bad. Having never owned a 6.0l I can’t make a comparison here but I seriously doubt it does any better than my old 5.3l.

As far as gas mileage towing, as far as I can tell that seems to be the one area where everyone agrees…diesel does better.

To me, all that adds up to more than just a couple more mph going uphill.

[bkirkpatrick]

OhhWell wrote:

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

Wow. I don't know if everyone will get that you posted that in humor. You did post it as a joke right?

Take it any way you want to... I was the driver.