Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[noteven]

on edit: My Therapist said first post was way too much information.

The "diesels cost X $thousand more than gas trucks to buy..." math is only true if you never sell the truck. If you do sell the cost of the truck is purchase price minus selling price. Markets vary but around here diesels likely cost less to own for 3 - 5 years. I have now recouped any purchase price premium based on current value of my truck being higher vs similar gas trucks in our area.

Compared fuel costs/mpg with a neighbor who has a same year/very close specs to ours Hemi 3500. Rough math, based on 2mpg better towing and 4mpg not towing- I have spent maybe $9000 less in fuel & lube costs operating the diesel over the first 150,000 miles.

My "target" life for this truck is at least 300,000 miles.

Personally I prefer cruising and pulling grades at 1600-2200rpm vs the rpms gas engines work at.

Have I ever been passed by a gas engine truck hauling the same 22,999lbs GCW 13ft tall load as me, on a "6 hours of crosswind" day? Not that I can remember. But it could happen because lots of them have more HP than my diesel.

Would a 400HP diesel class 8 truck hardly know my "big fiver" is hooked behind it, while a 400HP gas engine dually pick'em up will have a case of the frantics? Probley. Why is that? Doesn't seem to make sense. 400hp is 400hp...

[OhhWell]

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

Wow. I don't know if everyone will get that you posted that in humor. You did post it as a joke right?

[Hannibal]

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

Why would it want to? I've had a couple of boys do that to me. It didn't bother me but it sure made them look like adolescent dorks. Apparently, we need more government regulations and laws because of kids like those in the videos. Maybe outlaw diesel pickups altogether!:B

[transamz9]

Taco wrote:

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

Very true a gasser can't do that.

Stupid people like that is why more people hate diesel. I would like to smack them myself and I love my diesels.

[Taco]

bkirkpatrick wrote:
Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

Very true a gasser can't do that.

[bkirkpatrick]

Yes, but a gasser can't do this CLICK ME! or this CLICK ME 2

[rcpd34]

How exactly can you haul more than any gas engine? Your GVWR doesn't exactly say so or the DOT laws. Nor does the fact that you can get a gas silverado with the same axle, springs and tires, and less curb weight. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I have seen plenty of fuel stations that don't carry diesel. Many more only have one pump that isn't a dedicated diesel pump but shares it's spot with a gas pump that may be in use by a gas vehicle. I can bet that more often than once a diesel owner has had to wait for a vehicle to be moved from the one available pump.

Funny that you felt the need to pay extra to hedge against the possibility for a very high dollar repair on your diesel engine.

You may not live in a climate that is cold enough to need a block heater and diesels have gotten better but for some climates it is still a concern.

I'm glad you're happy to have to buy more oil???

My point is my diesel has the power to haul any load better; quicker, safer and more economically than it's gas counterpart. I'm not a commercial vehicle so I'm not worried about the weight police. When you order a Diesel (and big block before it was discontinued) you got the Allison and a heavier duty rear axle. It is not the same as when you egt a 6.0. Never had a problem finding diesel and everyone at some point has had to wait for fuel. To suggest otherwise is just silly. Where I live we het down to the low single digits; never had a starting issue; never plugged in. Don't be a hater.

[OhhWell]

jevanb wrote:
The owners and drivers of camper delivery companies (owner operators), might need to rethink buying a gas motor tow vehicle since they are by far a better platform for towing. and I mean (better platform) as less cost to purchase, operate, service. ect... Why in the world would anybody need a diesel?? if everything in these posts point out that the gas tow vehicle is superior in every category.. But I guess if you make money driving, you buy something that will last and make money to feed your family, this a a RV forum and I would bet every member has a camper and it prob was delivered to a dealer by a diesel equipped tow vehicle. Indiana to the upper parts of canada and the north east is a long way to tow and not make money doing it.. 1 thing I forgot to point out these delivery companies don't allow gas tow vehicles according to my step dad that used to drives out of elkhart with campers in tow

It's a different world these days. The EPA, inflated Diesel prices and the stupid HP war are crippling the major advantages of the Diesel power plant in light duty pickups. I know a guy that says he will hold on to his 2005 Cummins powered Ram 3500 until it rusts to dust.

The school district that I work at has dropped all diesel vehicles except for the full size busses. They say the Gas engine trucks are much cheaper to operate. They pull some heavy loads ranging from 4 zero turn mowers to flatbeds with loaders on them. They also travel all over the county every day of the work week. There are no state requirements on duty life for vehicles that do not transport students and since we are a pretty poor and mostly rural county, they tend to run every drop of life out of the fleet. I still have to drive a friggin Chevy 30 Van around every now and then. They sold the diesels after they were 5 years old or so after doing a cost of ownership study. I'm sure they did get a pretty good price for them at auction.

If you want to have a diesel and can afford it, get a stinkin diesel. They are great trucks. Not too many people really need one or would really see any benefit but there is an emotional element there to be sure (*Kinda like when people put that big "TURBO" sticker on the side of their car). You still can't beat having a super reliable forced induction engine in a truck. Hopefully soon we will have the benefit of having the choice of a reliable gas powered turbocharged engine in a Super Duty truck.

[OhhWell]

Hannibal wrote:

parkersdad wrote:
The gas motor still would not make its power as low as a diesel and it sure would not be as durable. My Cummins and I think all diesels in the big three are all iron blocks, heads, etc. There is no aluminum like there is in the gas motor.

Did Isuzu stop using aluminum heads in the DMax?

I never knew that. Good catch!

[Hannibal]

parkersdad wrote:
The gas motor still would not make its power as low as a diesel and it sure would not be as durable. My Cummins and I think all diesels in the big three are all iron blocks, heads, etc. There is no aluminum like there is in the gas motor.

Did Isuzu stop using aluminum heads in the DMax?

[Taco]

jevanb wrote:
The owners and drivers of camper delivery companies (owner operators), might need to rethink buying a gas motor tow vehicle since they are by far a better platform for towing. and I mean (better platform) as less cost to purchase, operate, service. ect... Why in the world would anybody need a diesel?? if everything in these posts point out that the gas tow vehicle is superior in every category.. But I guess if you make money driving, you buy something that will last and make money to feed your family, this a a RV forum and I would bet every member has a camper and it prob was delivered to a dealer by a diesel equipped tow vehicle. Indiana to the upper parts of canada and the north east is a long way to tow and not make money doing it.. 1 thing I forgot to point out these delivery companies don't allow gas tow vehicles according to my step dad that used to drives out of elkhart with campers in tow

To try and answer a sarcastic question in an accurate manner as best as I can.

The 3 mpg or so mpg advantage a diesel engine has adds up over 500k miles. While the design life of a pickup engine either gas or diesel is much less than 500k the life also has lots to do with the operating parameters. The miles are put on in a short amount of time and time is as much a killer of engines as mileage. The engines aren't started and stopped very often lessening start up wear and probably average 60 mph while running while an average use engine might average 30 mph. So at 500k miles they have the same amount of hours as a 250k mile engine, add to this very little stop and go and it increases the likelihood that in this application your truck may live to high miles and get a payback from the fuel economy. Remember the fuel cost payback is a lot of miles. If you anticipate a lot of miles then you can get the benefit of the payback. Most rv-ers won't own the truck long enough for a fuel cost payback.

Gas vehicles used as taxi cabs and courier vehicles also can live to see high miles for some of the same reasons.

Other possible reasons are that everybody else uses them so that must be what you use. Remember diesel a decade ago only cost 4k more than gas and got 5+ mpg more (pre hp war and EPA) and were far less expensive to repair than the current ones. A much better case could have been made for diesel a decade ago than now, but old wisdom can live on.

Another reason may be the expectation that a pickup diesel lasts longer with or without supporting evidence. Even with design lives within 20k miles of each other between diesel and gas there is strong support among the members of this forum that light duty pickup diesels are "forever" engines. I'm sure this belief is held elsewhere.

It may also be auxiliary fuel tanks are legal on diesel and not on gas. Stops at the pump cost time and time is money.

[jevanb]

The owners and drivers of camper delivery companies (owner operators), might need to rethink buying a gas motor tow vehicle since they are by far a better platform for towing. and I mean (better platform) as less cost to purchase, operate, service. ect... Why in the world would anybody need a diesel?? if everything in these posts point out that the gas tow vehicle is superior in every category.. But I guess if you make money driving, you buy something that will last and make money to feed your family, this a a RV forum and I would bet every member has a camper and it prob was delivered to a dealer by a diesel equipped tow vehicle. Indiana to the upper parts of canada and the north east is a long way to tow and not make money doing it.. 1 thing I forgot to point out these delivery companies don't allow gas tow vehicles according to my step dad that used to drives out of elkhart with campers in tow

[Taco]

rcpd34 wrote:

OhhWell wrote:

rcpd34 wrote:

You think you bought so much extra power for 8k but what it really shakes out to is only a couple extra mph up a hill.

AND the heavier duty transmission. AND the heavier duty rear axle. AND better fuel economy. AND effortless towing. AND way higher resale value. AND CDI (Really? Even if we drop to the 14 year old boy mental level here, that's not many women that are impressed by the fuel type and not just the large truck itself.) factor. AND the list goes on AND on...

AND less payload, And more expensive fuel, AND more costly maintenance, AND DEF, AND Block Heaters, AND more expensive repairs, AND not being able to fill up at ANY station anywhere, AND the list goes on AND on

Lol. I can haul as much and more than any gas engine. Easily and with less effort. Diesel fuel is everywhere. I have an extended warranty so repairs aren't an issue (Haven't needed a diesel repair to date (knock on wood)). No block heater required; even in sub freezing temps. I love the fact that I hold 5 more quarts than you.

How exactly can you haul more than any gas engine? Your GVWR doesn't exactly say so or the DOT laws. Nor does the fact that you can get a gas silverado with the same axle, springs and tires, and less curb weight. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I have seen plenty of fuel stations that don't carry diesel. Many more only have one pump that isn't a dedicated diesel pump but shares it's spot with a gas pump that may be in use by a gas vehicle. I can bet that more often than once a diesel owner has had to wait for a vehicle to be moved from the one available pump.

Funny that you felt the need to pay extra to hedge against the possibility for a very high dollar repair on your diesel engine.

You may not live in a climate that is cold enough to need a block heater and diesels have gotten better but for some climates it is still a concern.

I'm glad you're happy to have to buy more oil???

[rcpd34]

OhhWell wrote:

rcpd34 wrote:

You think you bought so much extra power for 8k but what it really shakes out to is only a couple extra mph up a hill.

AND the heavier duty transmission. AND the heavier duty rear axle. AND better fuel economy. AND effortless towing. AND way higher resale value. AND CDI (Really? Even if we drop to the 14 year old boy mental level here, that's not many women that are impressed by the fuel type and not just the large truck itself.) factor. AND the list goes on AND on...

AND less payload, And more expensive fuel, AND more costly maintenance, AND DEF, AND Block Heaters, AND more expensive repairs, AND not being able to fill up at ANY station anywhere, AND the list goes on AND on

Lol. I can haul as much and more than any gas engine. Easily and with less effort. Diesel fuel is everywhere. I have an extended warranty so repairs aren't an issue (Haven't needed a diesel repair to date (knock on wood)). No block heater required; even in sub freezing temps. I love the fact that I hold 5 more quarts than you.

[jevanb]

Taco wrote:
The issue that folks think torque production has anything to do with an engine being a diesel. When in fact it has to do with the engine being turbocharged.

last time I looked it was the slow burning nature of diesel fuel in the combustion chamber and the push all the way down the cylinder thats creates TQ.