Duramax emissions cheating scandal

[T18skyguy]

It looks like GM has been using the same cheat techniques as VW did. It affects 705,000 trucks from 2011-2016. I have a 2016. GM is denying it, but they already have the physical and software proof. I would expect it to end the same way as VW; with refunds to owners and modifications to truck(read less torque and mpg) and huge fines to the government. Read about it here

Bosch is also named in the class action suit since they provided the software to do it. Same as VW.

[FishOnOne]

Me Again wrote:

rhagfo wrote:


Don't worry Fish, Ford's day is coming and based on sales, the recall is likely to be huge!

^^^ What he said!! Given the systems are similar, no one is going to escape this one. Chris

The systems maybe similar but then again their different (i.e. Ram has to use more DEF to control Nox.) The EPA allows some deviations you just have to have those processes documented and when they are utilized. Ram has chosen to keep these special circumstances when they are not emission compliant from the EPA and got busted and are now paying the price.

This GM story at this point is well.... A story at best!

[lee_worsdell]

Then have the people delete ever thing any ways

[colliehauler]

pickjare wrote:
I work for a Chrysler dealer and have to say it's pretty impressive that all new diesels run so well while producing such a small amount of harmful emissions. These days no late model diesel produces a spec of soot at the tailpipe. The Chrysler Eco diesel gets 27 mpg and has good power. If driven mostly on the highway fuel mileage may be even higher and reliability is acceptable. But if stuck in a city environment they are problematic because of soot problems.

At this point Chrysler for example has no choice...either produce absolutely unreliable engines because they can't run on diesel fuel and capture and store all soot for too long, so they created software that lets the engine breath for a while and hope the customer will get out on a highway where regen can occur and all is well. This methodology worked and the EPA certified them all in 2016. Then the VW situation concluded...

GM, Chrysler, and though we haven't heard of it yet I'm sure Ford will be dragged into this, these companies are victims of the deception VW created. Now the EPA looks at different things these vehicles have to do under certain conditions to try and stay reliable for city driving, and EPA sees it as a cheat. Notice Chrysler said same thing as GM...that they did not knowingly cheat or deceive and they will fight hard to prove it. But not one 2017 eco diesel has passed and been certified for sale by EPA. The VW situation has created pure distrust between all manufacturers and the EPA.

There will be more, Ford, BMW, Nissans new diesel, all of them will be seriously questioned and if you look hard enough you will find red flags with them all. Difference is VW really was deceitful it seems to me. As far as Bosch, well they produce emission parts for all these guys. But they produce them how the manufacturer wants them based on their needs. It would seem easy to blame Bosch but they are building parts as manufacturers require for each engine.

I think EPA needs to ease the emissions requirements for new diesels. Let manufacturers progress smoothly and reach that "as clean as possible level." If they ban every single one, diesels will disappear. As far as the environment is concerned, I personally do care and wish it would stay natural, healthy and pristine. So if you'll ride a horse to work every day then I will too. Well, I guess in that scenario that would mean I have no work...

Thanks for the insight.

[colliehauler]

So bottom line is that it will cost the company's lots of money. They will then pass on to the consumer making already high priced trucks even higher.

[FishOnOne]

rhagfo wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

topjimmy wrote:
I thought it was Fiat/Chrysler Ram trucks that got caught Not GM Duramax

I believe that that was the 1500 diesel.

There was one on the ram cummins too.

Link

Don't worry Fish, Ford's day is coming and based on sales, the recall is likely to be huge!

I'm not worried, but I sure wanted to correct your statement.

[demiles]

These emission compliant vehicles get certified according to what the manufacturer submits to the EPA initially. There can be certain conditions or scenarios that the vehicle doesn't comply and the manufactures have to pay the EPA to allow these to pass within reason mind you. Either way there is a set sequence of operations that allows the vehicle to comply. The issues come when the manufactures have to make changes to resolve problems and doesn't bother with checking compliance, since there's no watch dog and no need to recertify. This is what FCA got nailed for and most likely other manufactures too will get hammered. I'm willing to bet that if someone starts checking gas powered vehicles that they find the same thing happening.

[boshog]

FishOnOne wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

topjimmy wrote:
I thought it was Fiat/Chrysler Ram trucks that got caught Not GM Duramax

I believe that that was the 1500 diesel.

There was one on the ram cummins too.

Link

This civil case looks more of a money-grab since it is lacking any substance. You need to be a member but you can get the gist;

https://www.law360.com/articles/909000

[REWahoo]

aruba5er wrote:
...2011 Chev HD 6.6 Dura Max.

And by the way I had my share and then some with the DEF system but "knock on wood" I have had no trouble for 2+ years. The dealer nust have finally got it fixed.

I had to smile when I saw this as my situation matches yours exactly.

My 2011 Duramax was a "hangar queen", visiting the dealership for an emissions problem three or four times a year. Finally, in April of 2015 when yet another check engine light sent me back to the dealer again, they replaced the last original NOx sensor. With all of the obviously faulty original sensors gone, the system has performed almost flawlessly for more than two years.

The dealership probably thinks I died...

[aruba5er]

if putting you nose to the tailpipe would be a good test, mine would pass with flying colors. I smell nothing, a lot better than the exhust of my wifes Honda. And I couldn"t make black come out of the pipe if my life depended on it. I think that's pretty clean. 2011 Chev HD 6.6 Dura Max.
And by the way I had my share and then some with the DEF system but "knock on wood" I have had no trouble for 2+ years. The dealer nust have finally got it fixed.

[pickjare]

I work for a Chrysler dealer and have to say it's pretty impressive that all new diesels run so well while producing such a small amount of harmful emissions. These days no late model diesel produces a spec of soot at the tailpipe. The Chrysler Eco diesel gets 27 mpg and has good power. If driven mostly on the highway fuel mileage may be even higher and reliability is acceptable. But if stuck in a city environment they are problematic because of soot problems.

At this point Chrysler for example has no choice...either produce absolutely unreliable engines because they can't run on diesel fuel and capture and store all soot for too long, so they created software that lets the engine breath for a while and hope the customer will get out on a highway where regen can occur and all is well. This methodology worked and the EPA certified them all in 2016. Then the VW situation concluded...

GM, Chrysler, and though we haven't heard of it yet I'm sure Ford will be dragged into this, these companies are victims of the deception VW created. Now the EPA looks at different things these vehicles have to do under certain conditions to try and stay reliable for city driving, and EPA sees it as a cheat. Notice Chrysler said same thing as GM...that they did not knowingly cheat or deceive and they will fight hard to prove it. But not one 2017 eco diesel has passed and been certified for sale by EPA. The VW situation has created pure distrust between all manufacturers and the EPA.

There will be more, Ford, BMW, Nissans new diesel, all of them will be seriously questioned and if you look hard enough you will find red flags with them all. Difference is VW really was deceitful it seems to me. As far as Bosch, well they produce emission parts for all these guys. But they produce them how the manufacturer wants them based on their needs. It would seem easy to blame Bosch but they are building parts as manufacturers require for each engine.

I think EPA needs to ease the emissions requirements for new diesels. Let manufacturers progress smoothly and reach that "as clean as possible level." If they ban every single one, diesels will disappear. As far as the environment is concerned, I personally do care and wish it would stay natural, healthy and pristine. So if you'll ride a horse to work every day then I will too. Well, I guess in that scenario that would mean I have no work...

[Me_Again]

rhagfo wrote:


Don't worry Fish, Ford's day is coming and based on sales, the recall is likely to be huge!

^^^ What he said!! Given the systems are similar, no one is going to escape this one. Chris

[rhagfo]

FishOnOne wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

topjimmy wrote:
I thought it was Fiat/Chrysler Ram trucks that got caught Not GM Duramax

I believe that that was the 1500 diesel.

There was one on the ram cummins too.

Link

Don't worry Fish, Ford's day is coming and based on sales, the recall is likely to be huge!

[N-Trouble]

jerem0621 wrote:
Man, I wonder if this is going to push the OEM's towards HD Gassers as their main focus...if they ultimately are forced out of the Diesel market by Regulations, what will happen to these big trucks and the big tow ratings?

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Not likely. Gassers just cant get it done when it comes to heavy towing. Things are changing at the EPA with the new administration. Hopefully some "common sense" regulations will be in place.

[FishOnOne]

rhagfo wrote:

topjimmy wrote:
I thought it was Fiat/Chrysler Ram trucks that got caught Not GM Duramax

I believe that that was the 1500 diesel.

There was one on the ram cummins too.

Link