Ecoboost vs Hemi

[charszy]

Hey guys I need some guidance. I have a 2013 F150 3.5L Ecoboost with the 3.55 axle. I have 70,000 miles on it. I bought it used about 2 years ago and have been up with it until this past month. I pulled our camper (30’ Jayco, approx. 7,000lbs loaded) about 3 weeks ago and the turbo went out. I took it to the dealer and they replaced the solenoid on the exhaust. I pulled our camper again this past weekend and the same thing happened. The truck is back at the dealer and I’m waiting for the verdict. The truck does seem overloaded by the weight when I’m pulling the camper and the truck rocks from side to side when I accelerate from a stop.

My father-in-law has a 2006 1500 Ram Hemi and swears by it. He also pulls a comparable size camper and said he’s also had plenty of power. I have a bad feeling I’m going to start having continuous problems with the truck and wonder if now if the time to trade. Has anyone else gone from an Ecoboost to a Hemi? Also, is the Ram just better designed for pulling a load than the Ecoboost?

Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Craig

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

With all that experience Robert I would have thought (guess I was wrong) you would know that a Carb'ed engine has fuel flow over the valves which cleans them up and a DI engine is a "dry" intake system with no cleaning action at all.

And this is why at least two manufactures are that I (now) know of are going with a duel injection "wet" system.

Lets be clear here. When manufactures are talking about carbon on the back side of the valves they are not talking about a little coating here. We are talking about a major build-up. We are not talking about worn out guides that pump a lot of oil onto the back side of the valve.

And one more time. I wanted the OP to know that turbo failure is VERY unusual for the EB engine. Ford has very good turbo's on this engine. Unlike the 6.4 or the first gen 6.7 engine which were junk these turbo's are good. Now if someone did a de-carbon to this engine then all bets are off and this is where the trouble starts.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

I didn't know that CalBar. Thanks for the education! 🙂 I agree with you. The rest of the manufactures are soon to follow.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
The reason it's not a problem with tons of vehicles is because the way the vehicle is used.

Using DI vehicles for short trips is a no Bueno. Restart after restart after restart will build carbon up on the valves of ANY DI engines valves. This is a know FACT of any manufacture that makes DI engines; not just Ford. Oil and fuel fumes will build up over time on a warm valve when they are open after the engine stops.

Much like the turbo problems that the first gen 6.7 Cummins customers were experiencing it makes all the difference in the world on how one drives the vehicle. Many owners didn't know about this problem because they used their truck for heavy work. That didn't mean the problem didn't exist. It just meant those that drove their first gen 6.7 Cummins hard didn't have the problem.

You said: "I never heard of that with the 3.5L Ecoboost." When I give you a link that tells you about the problem you start talking about EGR's which have next to nothing to do with the problem. How do I know this? Because as you have pointed out, the 3.5 doesn't have EGR but still has the problem.

As far as being a "major" issue. I guess Ford disagrees with you because they don't pop out TSB's Willie Nillie.

🙂 Hi, virtually all gas engines will develop carbon build up with, as you put it, Restart, after restart, after restart. Or lots of short trips without enough time and distance to warm up properly. This goes way back into the carburetor days. Long before DI.

I don't know about how many engines you work on but you would be incorrect.

The thing that fixes the carbon issue is fuel wash over the valves. The thing that makes it so bad with DI is because there is no fuel wash. It's a dry intake system until the combustion chamber.

Remember the Techron commercials by Chevron? Techron is good stuff when it washes over the valves. It works very well. The problem with DI is it no longer washes over the valves so there is no cleaning action.

That's why Ford is fixing this issue with a double set of injectors. One to run on most of the time and one to wash the valves off every now and then depending on the tune.

The way Ford is doing it, it won't be a problem anymore even with cold run engines. It cost them a lot of money but with a 2 injector system, they are doing it correctly. They are the first to do the job correctly that I know of.

🙂 Hi, you don't know how many engines I have worked on????? My first overhaul was on a Ford V-8 Flathead. I was a mechanic in the Army. Then I was a new car dealer mechanic since 1968. I have touched a few engines in my time. In the late sixties and early seventies, Big V-8's had huge carbon problems. Retired from a Ford dealer in 2008.

What's your experience?

[CaLBaR]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
The reason it's not a problem with tons of vehicles is because the way the vehicle is used.

Using DI vehicles for short trips is a no Bueno. Restart after restart after restart will build carbon up on the valves of ANY DI engines valves. This is a know FACT of any manufacture that makes DI engines; not just Ford. Oil and fuel fumes will build up over time on a warm valve when they are open after the engine stops.

Much like the turbo problems that the first gen 6.7 Cummins customers were experiencing it makes all the difference in the world on how one drives the vehicle. Many owners didn't know about this problem because they used their truck for heavy work. That didn't mean the problem didn't exist. It just meant those that drove their first gen 6.7 Cummins hard didn't have the problem.

You said: "I never heard of that with the 3.5L Ecoboost." When I give you a link that tells you about the problem you start talking about EGR's which have next to nothing to do with the problem. How do I know this? Because as you have pointed out, the 3.5 doesn't have EGR but still has the problem.

As far as being a "major" issue. I guess Ford disagrees with you because they don't pop out TSB's Willie Nillie.

🙂 Hi, virtually all gas engines will develop carbon build up with, as you put it, Restart, after restart, after restart. Or lots of short trips without enough time and distance to warm up properly. This goes way back into the carburetor days. Long before DI.

I don't know about how many engines you work on but you would be incorrect.

The thing that fixes the carbon issue is fuel wash over the valves. The thing that makes it so bad with DI is because there is no fuel wash. It's a dry intake system until the combustion chamber.

Remember the Techron commercials by Chevron? Techron is good stuff when it washes over the valves. It works very well. The problem with DI is it no longer washes over the valves so there is no cleaning action.

That's why Ford is fixing this issue with a double set of injectors. One to run on most of the time and one to wash the valves off every now and then depending on the tune.

The way Ford is doing it, it won't be a problem anymore even with cold run engines. It cost them a lot of money but with a 2 injector system, they are doing it correctly. They are the first to do the job correctly that I know of.

Fords not the first to do this. All of the Toyota DI engines have had this for years to avoid the carbon problem. Glad Ford is doing something to fix the issue. Others will too just a matter of time.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
The reason it's not a problem with tons of vehicles is because the way the vehicle is used.

Using DI vehicles for short trips is a no Bueno. Restart after restart after restart will build carbon up on the valves of ANY DI engines valves. This is a know FACT of any manufacture that makes DI engines; not just Ford. Oil and fuel fumes will build up over time on a warm valve when they are open after the engine stops.

Much like the turbo problems that the first gen 6.7 Cummins customers were experiencing it makes all the difference in the world on how one drives the vehicle. Many owners didn't know about this problem because they used their truck for heavy work. That didn't mean the problem didn't exist. It just meant those that drove their first gen 6.7 Cummins hard didn't have the problem.

You said: "I never heard of that with the 3.5L Ecoboost." When I give you a link that tells you about the problem you start talking about EGR's which have next to nothing to do with the problem. How do I know this? Because as you have pointed out, the 3.5 doesn't have EGR but still has the problem.

As far as being a "major" issue. I guess Ford disagrees with you because they don't pop out TSB's Willie Nillie.

🙂 Hi, virtually all gas engines will develop carbon build up with, as you put it, Restart, after restart, after restart. Or lots of short trips without enough time and distance to warm up properly. This goes way back into the carburetor days. Long before DI.

I don't know about how many engines you work on but you would be incorrect.

The thing that fixes the carbon issue is fuel wash over the valves. The thing that makes it so bad with DI is because there is no fuel wash. It's a dry intake system until the combustion chamber.

Remember the Techron commercials by Chevron? Techron is good stuff when it washes over the valves. It works very well. The problem with DI is it no longer washes over the valves so there is no cleaning action.

That's why Ford is fixing this issue with a double set of injectors. One to run on most of the time and one to wash the valves off every now and then depending on the tune.

The way Ford is doing it, it won't be a problem anymore even with cold run engines. It cost them a lot of money but with a 2 injector system, they are doing it correctly. They are the first to do the job correctly that I know of.

[MitchF150]

...

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
The reason it's not a problem with tons of vehicles is because the way the vehicle is used.

Using DI vehicles for short trips is a no Bueno. Restart after restart after restart will build carbon up on the valves of ANY DI engines valves. This is a know FACT of any manufacture that makes DI engines; not just Ford. Oil and fuel fumes will build up over time on a warm valve when they are open after the engine stops.

Much like the turbo problems that the first gen 6.7 Cummins customers were experiencing it makes all the difference in the world on how one drives the vehicle. Many owners didn't know about this problem because they used their truck for heavy work. That didn't mean the problem didn't exist. It just meant those that drove their first gen 6.7 Cummins hard didn't have the problem.

You said: "I never heard of that with the 3.5L Ecoboost." When I give you a link that tells you about the problem you start talking about EGR's which have next to nothing to do with the problem. How do I know this? Because as you have pointed out, the 3.5 doesn't have EGR but still has the problem.

As far as being a "major" issue. I guess Ford disagrees with you because they don't pop out TSB's Willie Nillie.

🙂 Hi, virtually all gas engines will develop carbon build up with, as you put it, Restart, after restart, after restart. Or lots of short trips without enough time and distance to warm up properly. This goes way back into the carburetor days. Long before DI.

[ShinerBock]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
The reason it's not a problem with tons of vehicles is because the way the vehicle is used.

Using DI vehicles for short trips is a no Bueno. Restart after restart after restart will build carbon up on the valves of ANY DI engines valves. This is a know FACT of any manufacture that makes DI engines; not just Ford. Oil and fuel fumes will build up over time on a warm valve when they are open after the engine stops.

Much like the turbo problems that the first gen 6.7 Cummins customers were experiencing it makes all the difference in the world on how one drives the vehicle. Many owners didn't know about this problem because they used their truck for heavy work. That didn't mean the problem didn't exist. It just meant those that drove their first gen 6.7 Cummins hard didn't have the problem.

You said: "I never heard of that with the 3.5L Ecoboost." When I give you a link that tells you about the problem you start talking about EGR's which have next to nothing to do with the problem. How do I know this? Because as you have pointed out, the 3.5 doesn't have EGR but still has the problem.

As far as being a "major" issue. I guess Ford disagrees with you because they don't pop out TSB's Willie Nillie.

So if you use the vehicle as intended, then you won't have an issue? Who'd da thunk it.

What TSB for the 3.5L Ecoboost(the one the OP has) for intake valve carbon buildup are you talking about? I have never seen one for the 3.5L or 2.7L engines.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

The reason it's not a problem with tons of vehicles is because the way the vehicle is used.

Using DI vehicles for short trips is a no Bueno. Restart after restart after restart will build carbon up on the valves of ANY DI engines valves. This is a know FACT of any manufacture that makes DI engines; not just Ford. Oil and fuel fumes will build up over time on a warm valve when they are open after the engine stops.

Much like the turbo problems that the first gen 6.7 Cummins customers were experiencing it makes all the difference in the world on how one drives the vehicle. Many owners didn't know about this problem because they used their truck for heavy work. That didn't mean the problem didn't exist. It just meant those that drove their first gen 6.7 Cummins hard didn't have the problem.

You said: "I never heard of that with the 3.5L Ecoboost." When I give you a link that tells you about the problem you start talking about EGR's which have next to nothing to do with the problem. How do I know this? Because as you have pointed out, the 3.5 doesn't have EGR but still has the problem.

As far as being a "major" issue. I guess Ford disagrees with you because they don't pop out TSB's Willie Nillie.

[ShinerBock]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Ok, have it your way; here is 17 pages worth of 3.5 carbon valve problems on the 3.5 Ecoboost

More reading.

There's more........A lot more.......

BTW, EGR has nothing to do with DI carbon issues. (Or next to nothing for those of you that want to split hairs.)

I never said there is zero carbon buildup on non EGR DI engines. Even port injected valves will have some carbon buildup on them over time. I said it is not a major issue or will cause engine failure like the DI engines with EGR. The soot from the exhaust gasses being re-introduced into the intake on a direct injected engine compounds this problem making it a major engine issue leading to engine failure.

As of today, have never heard of carbon buildup causing engine failures on a 3.5L Ecoboost or any other sluggish condition that a few minutes of "driving it like you stole it" won't fix like on port injected engines.

The engine won't fail. What will happen is your engine starts loosing power, going to be hard to start, and gets poor fuel economy from carbon build-up.

Bore scope of an Ecoboost engine with 15K on it.

PUT.com wrote:
The reality is that while the new EcoBoost is an impressive engine, carbon buildup will happen and for now, the only fix seems to be replacing the cylinder heads.

The OP had a turbo go out x2. My point to the OP is this: This engine has some congenital problems; BUT turbo's isn't one of them UNLESS someone has be dumping chemicals in the intake trying to clean up the valve carbon problems. If he or anybody else has been doing this your likely to have turbo problems.

All DI engines have this problem. It's not exclusive to the Ecoboost. It has nothing to do with EGR. (I don't even know why EGR was brought up?) It has everything to do with valve overlap and flow reversion.

Troy is right. Ford is going to solve this whole debacle once and for all with the 17 model. How? By designing a whole new fuel system with a double set of injectors. This is the proper way of fixing the problem. This is a first with DI as far as I know? The tuners are going to go ape shirt over this 2 injector deal. With a double set of injectors they now will be able to run duel fuel, E85 or even straight meth in this engine. They are going to love this whole deal!

I suggested this way to fix this problem way back when on this very forum. I wonder if I should file for compensation from Ford for my recommendation? :B

If that were the case, then why don't you see it all of the forums of people complaining about having to replace heads? Surely with the million Ecoboost engines sold in F150s one would think that if this were a major issue then there would be some kind Consumer Report article or some major lawsuit, but there is nothing. Because it is not as big of a deal as some would like to make it out to be.

I work for the largest heavy and medium duty truck dealership in North America. We have 180 dealership location spanning many OE brands. At each of these locations we have parts delivery and salesman take home trucks that are all F150 Ecoboost trucks accept for a few 2010 5.4L. Our policy is to run these trucks to 200k miles and sale them at the auction. The corporate fleet manager who is in charge of all of our company equipment and there repairs is a few offices down from me. Being that we both work friends and are truck enthusiasts, we talk about these trucks and others quit a bit. Out of the 200+ Ecoboost trucks in our fleet(most with 150k+ miles), not one has had a major repair like head replacement or needing a carbon clean. A few have had a turbo replacement, but it had nothing to do with carbon build up.

So as far as people making it out to be like it is some big major problem, I ain't buying it. I would have to ask what is their real world experience on this besides a few forum posts. Usually it is ZERO. I personally drove on of those 2012 company trucks mentioned above for all of it's 170K miles in my last sales position, and not one head replacement, not one turbo replacement, and not one inkling of power loss. My personal 2011 F150 Ecoboost was the same way when it I traded it in at 110k for a bigger truck.

Also, I did not say EGR causes this issue. I said it compounds it. The reason for the carbon buildup is due to oil on the valve not being washed away by fuel. (Again, even port injected vavles get carbon build up). With EGR, exhaust soot is added to the mix and sticks to the oil causing a little buildup to become major buildup over time. This is why you see so many forum horror stories (not just a few) of carbon buildup casuing major engine failure in direct injected engines with an EGR. Those without an EGR, not so much. You don't hear much about thise happening to the non-EGR Eciboost like the 3.5L and 2.7L or even any of the GM Ecotec engines like the 4.6L, 5.3L, and 6.2L found in their trucks. Why? Because it is not a major issue since they don't have an EGR to make it one.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

ShinerBock wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Ok, have it your way; here is 17 pages worth of 3.5 carbon valve problems on the 3.5 Ecoboost

More reading.

There's more........A lot more.......

BTW, EGR has nothing to do with DI carbon issues. (Or next to nothing for those of you that want to split hairs.)

I never said there is zero carbon buildup on non EGR DI engines. Even port injected valves will have some carbon buildup on them over time. I said it is not a major issue or will cause engine failure like the DI engines with EGR. The soot from the exhaust gasses being re-introduced into the intake on a direct injected engine compounds this problem making it a major engine issue leading to engine failure.

As of today, have never heard of carbon buildup causing engine failures on a 3.5L Ecoboost or any other sluggish condition that a few minutes of "driving it like you stole it" won't fix like on port injected engines.

The engine won't fail. What will happen is your engine starts loosing power, going to be hard to start, and gets poor fuel economy from carbon build-up.

Bore scope of an Ecoboost engine with 15K on it.

PUT.com wrote:
The reality is that while the new EcoBoost is an impressive engine, carbon buildup will happen and for now, the only fix seems to be replacing the cylinder heads.

The OP had a turbo go out x2. My point to the OP is this: This engine has some congenital problems; BUT turbo's isn't one of them UNLESS someone has be dumping chemicals in the intake trying to clean up the valve carbon problems. If he or anybody else has been doing this your likely to have turbo problems.

All DI engines have this problem. It's not exclusive to the Ecoboost. It has nothing to do with EGR. (I don't even know why EGR was brought up?) It has everything to do with valve overlap and flow reversion.

Troy is right. Ford is going to solve this whole debacle once and for all with the 17 model. How? By designing a whole new fuel system with a double set of injectors. This is the proper way of fixing the problem. This is a first with DI as far as I know? The tuners are going to go ape shirt over this 2 injector deal. With a double set of injectors they now will be able to run duel fuel, E85 or even straight meth in this engine. They are going to love this whole deal!

I suggested this way to fix this problem way back when on this very forum. I wonder if I should file for compensation from Ford for my recommendation? :B

[brulaz]

FishOnOne wrote:
The '17 Eco Boost engines will not have the carbon build up issue since it will also have a sequential fuel system along with the DI fuel system.

This will be a power house with improved fuel economy.

And with that 10 spd tranny, the 2017's are certainly looking good. If the OP (or anyone else) gets one, would love to read a first-hand tow report.

Never had an issue with our 2011 3.5L EcoB, but only had it for 105K kms.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Ok, have it your way; here is 17 pages worth of 3.5 carbon valve problems on the 3.5 Ecoboost

More reading.

There's more........A lot more.......

BTW, EGR has nothing to do with DI carbon issues. (Or next to nothing for those of you that want to split hairs.)

🙂 Hi, 17 pages of Blah, Blah, Blah by, mostly four people. Not impressed or concerned.

[ShinerBock]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Ok, have it your way; here is 17 pages worth of 3.5 carbon valve problems on the 3.5 Ecoboost

More reading.

There's more........A lot more.......

BTW, EGR has nothing to do with DI carbon issues. (Or next to nothing for those of you that want to split hairs.)

I never said there is zero carbon buildup on non EGR DI engines. Even port injected valves will have some carbon buildup on them over time. I said it is not a major issue or will cause engine failure like the DI engines with EGR. The soot from the exhaust gasses being re-introduced into the intake on a direct injected engine compounds this problem making it a major engine issue leading to engine failure.

As of today, have never heard of carbon buildup causing engine failures on a 3.5L Ecoboost or any other sluggish condition that a few minutes of "driving it like you stole it" won't fix like on port injected engines.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Ok, have it your way; here is 17 pages worth of 3.5 carbon valve problems on the 3.5 Ecoboost

More reading.

There's more........A lot more.......

BTW, EGR has nothing to do with DI carbon issues. (Or next to nothing for those of you that want to split hairs.)