Flagstaff design harder to tow?

[Fishwater]

We have a 2013 Flagstaff that we purchased brand new to replace our 2009 Passport 290BH. When we bought the camper I had a Dodge Ram half ton thinking that I’d be able to tow the new trailer with but quickly found out that would not be possible. The camper towed terrible on the ride home & I just figured it was due to the additional 1500lbs so it was time to upgrade to a bigger truck. I upgraded to a 6.0l diesel Ford F-350 crew cab thinking no problem, it will tow that camper like it’s not even there. I continued to fight the trailer for the rest of the season.

Half way through the second season I dug deeper into the trailer after continuing to fight with towing in the 1 ton diesel that by all accounts should tow that thing without breaking a sweat. I ended up finding that one of the rear axle brakes was miss adjusted from the factory causing the additional drag on the trailer. Finally! I figured I found my issue! The trailer did tow better but not as well as I hoped, still felt like a giant brick behind the truck. By the end of the second season my 6.0l was getting a little tired so I once again upgraded to a 2013 F-350 crewcab with a 6.7l PSD, once again more than enough to tow the anchor behind us.

Last season went much better, I spent a bunch of time dialing in the Rees strait line that I’ve owned since the Passport, bought a tongue scale (1150lbs on the tongue) & adjusted the hitch multiple times until I got it about as good as I could get it without bringing it to the scales. It’s better but still has a little sway at times, still feels heavier than it should behind the PSD but works. I’ve checked the tire pressure constantly, checked for uneven tire wear indicating a bent or misaligned axle with nothing noticeable, I don’t know of a local or even a semi local place that does HD truck alignment’s but I still wonder if there isn’t an axle issue? I know I should hit the scales but with 2 kids, a full time job traveling & life I really struggle finding the time to drive an hour each way to the scales plus the time there. Forget bringing the family loaded up ready to go camping for that exercise!

This year we are planning to expand our camping area since the kids are getting older but I’m dreading another season fighting the tow every trip. I’m seriously considering downgrading, changing campers, getting something smaller that unfortunately won’t have the storage or quality we’re used to but will be easier to tow. We love the layout of the Flagstaff, I love the quality, it’s one of the best built campers I’ve ever seen. In my previous life I was a service manager at a large RV dealership so I’ve been inside many campers, inspected them, worked on them, pulled many a camper, boats, trailers, etc.

I’m really starting to wonder if there is something inherently wrong with the flat front face design of the Flagstaff units, I see that they have changed them on the new models for better aerodynamics. So anyone have any insight, previous owners who’ve owned one & changed to a different brand with input?

[OleManOleCan]

donn0128 wrote:
WOW! Lots to digest. First, you mentioned the hitch is the same as used on last trailer? Is it possible the hitch is not rated high enough?
TT sway is or has always been part of the TT experience. I think at this point in time I would measure hitch to axle distances and see if possibly Lippert welded the axles on wrong.

If you not running E-Rated Tires, changing to them will improve your towing 100%.
Turns out my F-250 had Goodyear passenger Wranglers factory installed. WTH?
A couple of years ago I had a Grey Wolf that was a problem child behind my truck.
Finally I put some E-Rated tires on my truck. Tamed it right down.

The other thing that eliminated problems was I took off my Equalizer Hitch, and I installed it myself. It had been installed by an 'expert' at the dealership...
When I put it on, I did it right. I adjusted for height and pitch ect...
When I was done my problems were gone.

[K_and_I]

I used the info from that website to find that I had a bent spindle. I spoke with a number of truck alignment shops but no one would touch it. I called Dexter and ordered 2 new axles and swapped them out myself.

[DutchmenSport]

Delete

[Fishwater]

I typically drive with the flow of traffic 55-56mph

[wanderingaimles]

Nowhere in these post has speed been questioned, but what speed are you having this issue?
55-60? Or 70+?
All TT fronts are less than ideal as far as wind resistance. And speed increases make this very noticeable.

[myredracer]

First, specs say a Flagstaff 831BHDS is 34' with 8700 lb GVWR. I would expect TW to be up to around 1200-1300 lbs, or maybe even higher when fully loaded. Only way to know for sure is you've simply gotta go to a scale or buy a tongue wt. scale. There can be lots of places to find a scale (to drive through). That is starting to be a long-ish TT and be harder to tame from the start.

We have a Reese DC WDH. We have zero sway, all the time. It is imperative to have the cams centered exactly in the "crooks" in the bar ends. It could be that you might benefit with the next rating of spring bars but I believe this means you have to upgrade the hitch head as well. When TWs get up to around 1200 lbs, keep an eye on the forming bolts that attach the cam arm and snap-up brackets as they can loosen up. There are a few ways to address this if it happens. It happened on our setup with a TW of only 900+ lbs. You may need to install Reese's heavy duty snap-up brackets for that high a TW.

What tires are on the TT? Load range E might be a good idea and keep them inflated to 80 psi. Or check out specs on GY Endurance at LRD. Going one load range up will get you wider tires and that alone can help.

What pressure on the truck? You might find higher psi works better. I run 75 front and 80 rear on our LRE tires for towing and it runs better that way.

Is the TT level to slightly nose down when fully loaded up for camping? I found that being slightly nose down made a noticeable improvement. Had to get a ball with a 1" rise to make it work (along with lowering the hitch head on shank).

Are the bars set up at the correct angle and with the correct number of chain links engaged? Is there any play in the hitch shank to receiver? Reese has shims for that. May not help much but every little bit helps.

We installed shocks on our TT and it made a huge improvement. Not only in sway, but also on twisty mountain roads at speed. It's not a cheap upgrade and I wouldn't spend the $$ until you've looked at everything else. We installed Bilsteins on our F250 and they also helped a lot.

Unlikely, but in some cases it can help to install a better/stonger receiver when you have above average TWs. What rating are the axles on the TT? I would also check the location of the axles on the frame. The truck is fairly new but is there any chance something in the front end is worn? I had to rebuild the front end in our F250 when we bought it at 3 years old as a lease return.

Reducing sway to a minimum involves looking at a number of different factors and no single adjustment or change is going to be the magic bullet. Yes, a 1 ton TV should tow that TT with ease but you still need to look at all the variables that can affect sway.

[troubledwaters]

^^^^ I agree, probably not enough tongue weight. A trip to the scales could be really helpful.

[bguy]

More tongue weight.

[Boomerweps]

A carefull reassessment of your hitch set up is in order.
A trip to the scales might help you narrow down your problem.

[donn0128]

One more thought. You might look at rear overhang. If the distance from rear qxle to rear of trailer is a lot that could be contributing to your issues. I understsnd thait can be a real problem with certain short wheel base motor homes.

[Fishwater]

My current F-350 6.7l diesel has 3.55's, my last F-350 6.0l diesel with a 60 hp tow tune had 3.73's, either truck is/was more than capable of towing this trailer by all accounts.

[Fishwater]

Thanks to everyone responding, I appreciate the insight. To recap, I agree I should find a good HD shop to inspect & possibly align the axles but I live in a semi rural area with a lot of truck shops but not many good ones, same reason why I won't bring it back to the dealership, great guys but service is lacking to be polite. Still, I will hunt one out prior to spring.

I seriously considered buying a 5er last season since I have more than enough truck but losing the bed space is tough, especially if I want to bring my trail bike. Again, not out of the question but probably my last resort. Plus the cost for what's comparable to what we have is getting up there...

As far as checking the brakes & adjusting, I took the trailer down the highway for a while & then pulled over to measure the wheel temp with my infrared thermometer to detect which wheel was dragging, I found three out of four with higher temps but one was the worst. I adjusted the three while the trailer was connected with a jack but to your point maybe having someone engage the brake & then releasing would show something sticking even when free drag was adjusted properly? Also of note, never once did the brakes smoke or stink prior to adjustment. Although on camp roads occasionally the wheels would lock up aggressively at low speeds which I attributed to the brake controller not being adjusted perfectly after towing to the campground, at that time I was using an aftermarket Tekonsha P3 controller in my first F-350. Again being a new trailer at the time I couldn't imagine (shame on me) that something like dragging brakes wouldn't have been noticed on the long drive from Indiana to NH for delivery.

I know some wiggle & shake is part of the TT experience but again, something just doesn't feel right while towing this particular rig down the road. When we bought it the furthest campground we traveled to was 75 miles each way, since then we have expanded as the girls got older & we want to make trips a few states away before it's too late.

[George3037]

By going from a 1/2T gas to a 3/4T diesel as you noted you should not even notice the extra 1500 lbs and it should pull it with ease. I'd guess something must be wrong either with actual loaded weight or the way the hitch is set up. According to the specs I read your loaded weight should be around 8970 lbs and your tongue weight of 1150 is about 13%. In theory the numbers look good. Maybe a trip to the scales is needed to see actual numbers or a good shop to check out the brakes and axles. I'd think you'd noticed if the brakes were dragging by the smell or smoke after a short drive. Check them again as Dutchman said. Its possible a short could be applying the brakes.

I tow a Gulf Stream 28RLR 32.5', spec's say 7180 lb dry, 1030 hitch weight, and max capacity of 11,170. I run a little over 10K loaded, 1250 hitch weight with a 2016 2500HD crew cab 4x4 6.0L gas and 4.10's and haven't noticed the problems you claim to have. Yes, I know my TT is back there but it tows great and doesn't sway.

What rear end gears does the F350 have? if 4.10 or 4.30 should have no problem towing 9K. Hope you get it figured out.

[trailer_newbe]

Max weight on a 2017 Flagstaff is around 9,000 lbs so you should be well within your towing limits. Our trailer tops out at 8,150 and we tow it with a 2018 RAM 3/4 Cummins Turbo Diesel. I feel the trailer for sure but climbing or going down hills is no problem. We just towed to Lost Dutchman in the Superstition Mountains where the winds were 30 MPH. Just slowed to 55 MPH and all good.

What type of mileage are you getting ? What is your expectation towing 9K with the truck you have?