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follow the bouncing ball

nephi007
Explorer
Explorer
Hello. We owe $18,930.00 or so on a 2016 trailer. It has bunks but we now want a rear kitchen model. The rig we like is a 2017 selling for !8k or so. For kicks and giggles we went to dealer to look at numbers. Here is the bottom line. Selling price for 2017 rig $29,205.00! (what happened to the 18K price?) Trade in for our 2016: $20,710 (wow!) trade in difference: $$8495.00..fees etc plus difference is $9630.00 or so. trade payoff: $18,930. that added to $9630 equals $28,560. payment would be $267.60 for 12 years @5.24%. Wife laughed and walked out and I dutifully followed her. lesson: grass isn't always greener on the other side.
47 REPLIES 47

delwhjr
Explorer
Explorer
CavemanCharlie wrote:
Soooo, you are taking out a long term loan, with a lower interest rate, then you are paying off (whatever) sooner without paying a penalty or without paying the whole rate of interest ?

Humm, I will have to give this some thought but, it sounds like we are setting ourselves up for another economic collapse.

The banks ; on there books ; think that they will have X number of dollars coming in over X number of years. If they don't get it because everyone pays off their loan early then that will be a problem.

But, I am not a economist. I am just thinking out loud.


Loans are discounted on the books to account for early payoff. If the loan actually does survive to maturity that is "found" money. The banks really don't care if you pay off early. That just makes the money available for another loan.
2022 Rockwood 2109S
2006 Durango HEMI

Walaby
Explorer II
Explorer II
Most loans from reputable lenders, lending to people with decent credit, have no pre-payment penalty. Been that way as far back as I can remember.

Mike
Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
2017 Ram 3500 CTD (aka FRAM)
2019 GrandDesign Reflection 367BHS

CavemanCharlie
Explorer III
Explorer III
Soooo, you are taking out a long term loan, with a lower interest rate, then you are paying off (whatever) sooner without paying a penalty or without paying the whole rate of interest ?

Humm, I will have to give this some thought but, it sounds like we are setting ourselves up for another economic collapse.

The banks ; on there books ; think that they will have X number of dollars coming in over X number of years. If they don't get it because everyone pays off their loan early then that will be a problem.

But, I am not a economist. I am just thinking out loud.

spoon059
Explorer II
Explorer II
CavemanCharlie wrote:
Good post. But,,, I have a question. If you take out a long term loan and then pay it off early don't you still have to pay the full interest that would be on the loan???

Unless the loan specifically states that there is a pre-payment penalty, no you don't still have to pay the full interest. Another option is a home equity line of credit. That is what we used to purchase ours. Technically speaking we have 30 years to pay off our camper, we have under 4% interest AND the interest is tax deductible. That being said, we are still aiming to pay it off within 4 years and are still on pace to pay it off that early.
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

campinia
Explorer
Explorer
Good post. But,,, I have a question. If you take out a long term loan and then pay it off early don't you still have to pay the full interest that would be on the loan???

No, you don't have to pay the full interest. I have a 10 year loan and have paid double payments on it for 3 years. There is no pre-payment penalty on it. Dealers around here can get lower interest rates with longer term loans then if I would have went with local banks/credit unions for 5 years!
2017 Chevy Silverado Crew Cab LT 2500HD Z71 4X4 6.0 Gasser
2018 Keystone Passport Ultra Light 175BH
Champion 3100W Inverter Generator
2018 Pescador Pro 10 Fishing Kayak
2018 Old Town Topwater 106 Fishing Kayak

CavemanCharlie
Explorer III
Explorer III
jus2shy wrote:
Another note is that some people purposefully take the longer term finance, with the full intent of paying off early. I personally do this (done it for many things, including my student loan), just in case events in life come up and I need to cut back on paying bills, I have that flexibility. Currently planning on a spring purchase for a trailer myself and plan on taking the long term, just so I can remain flexible. Truck is almost paid off and I figure that I'm paying an "Opportunity" cost to get a trailer sooner rather than later, as kids don't remain toddlers forever and I'm personally tired of the tent camping lifestyle. Once truck is paid off, trailer becomes the "Vehicle" monthly bill.

What I'm certainly sure most people can agree to on this board is that many people out there are financially illiterate. They don't understand the concept of an opportunity cost (interest on most debts), and what you're supposed to do when you take out that loan (invest said cash so it can make money, using your dollars to work for you). A lot of people do tend to stretch themselves living paycheck to paycheck. Some in my family included (no matter what I advise). I remember reading a few articles where only 25% of Americans can come up with $1k or $2k within a couple weeks to pay for an unexpected event. That's just appalling. I think more "Finance" classes should be offered in our school curricula so that people don't get swindled at car dealerships, home purchases, or even RV purchases. So that people can understand what it truly means to "Afford" something. I could go out and buy a Porsche 911 GTS. But I know I can't afford a Porsche 911 GTS, not if I want to hit my other life goal of early retirement. Good ol' give and take :).


Good post. But,,, I have a question. If you take out a long term loan and then pay it off early don't you still have to pay the full interest that would be on the loan??? A lot of institutions will gladly loan you money long term but, the interest rate over the term of the loan is so big that you could have bought the original purchase twice.

Back in the day, just after I graduated high school some friends of mine got married and took out a loan to buy stuff. Like a Television for example. They took out a long term loan and made the minimum payments. After awhile they figured out that they were never paying down the principle debt. All they were doing was paying the interest. They had paid for the TV twice. They had to get a lawyer to get the mess all straighten out. Once he got involved the loan lending institution gave up. After all they had gotten their money back X2.

delwhjr
Explorer
Explorer
Just because someone takes a 12 year note does not mean it will take twelve years to pay it off. As others have said, I take the loan terms that are favorable to my position. I pay them off early but have flexibility to pay less some months if other issues or opportunities come up. The only loan I did not pay early was a car loan I got for 0%. No way I am going to pass up the opportunity to use their money for the whole time.
2022 Rockwood 2109S
2006 Durango HEMI

GrandpaKip
Explorer II
Explorer II
Buying used is a great option, if what you want is available. It was for me, but not for my kids. We looked for 6 months until we found their EcoCamp. Nothing around here was like it and it hit all the buttons for them. They are happy with their purchase, happy traveling in it, and basically happy folks all around.
If someone is satisfied with their decision and it has no bearing on my life, who am I to knock them for it? Opinions are one thing and criticism a whole 'nother.
Kip
2015 Skyline Dart 214RB
2018 Silverado Double Cab 4x4
Andersen Hitch

1stgenfarmboy
Explorer
Explorer
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this is what we do and have done for 30 years.
1993 Dodge W350 Cummins with all the goodies
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn 2wd 395hp
2017 Forest River Surveyor 243 RBS
2001 Super Sherpa & 2012 DL650A go along also

jus2shy
Explorer
Explorer
Another note is that some people purposefully take the longer term finance, with the full intent of paying off early. I personally do this (done it for many things, including my student loan), just in case events in life come up and I need to cut back on paying bills, I have that flexibility. Currently planning on a spring purchase for a trailer myself and plan on taking the long term, just so I can remain flexible. Truck is almost paid off and I figure that I'm paying an "Opportunity" cost to get a trailer sooner rather than later, as kids don't remain toddlers forever and I'm personally tired of the tent camping lifestyle. Once truck is paid off, trailer becomes the "Vehicle" monthly bill.

What I'm certainly sure most people can agree to on this board is that many people out there are financially illiterate. They don't understand the concept of an opportunity cost (interest on most debts), and what you're supposed to do when you take out that loan (invest said cash so it can make money, using your dollars to work for you). A lot of people do tend to stretch themselves living paycheck to paycheck. Some in my family included (no matter what I advise). I remember reading a few articles where only 25% of Americans can come up with $1k or $2k within a couple weeks to pay for an unexpected event. That's just appalling. I think more "Finance" classes should be offered in our school curricula so that people don't get swindled at car dealerships, home purchases, or even RV purchases. So that people can understand what it truly means to "Afford" something. I could go out and buy a Porsche 911 GTS. But I know I can't afford a Porsche 911 GTS, not if I want to hit my other life goal of early retirement. Good ol' give and take :).
E'Aho L'ua
2013 RAM 3500 Crew Cab 4x4 SRW |Cummins @ 370/800| 68RFE| 3.42 gears
Currently Rig-less (still shopping and biding my time)

CavemanCharlie
Explorer III
Explorer III
I agree with the idea that if you can't afford to pay it off early then you should buy used. You must be a very careful shopper but, there are used units out there in good shape ! You just have to do your research and know what to look for.

Buying a TT on a 12 year loan is asking for trouble. How can you know if you will still be making this much money in 12 years ? What if things change that you can not predict ?

People have short memories. Doesn't anyone remember a few years ago when people were buying houses on the cheap thinking that they could flip them for more money? Then the bottom dropped out and it all went bad.

Doesn't anyone remember Enron a few years before that ?

It is OK to make payments. But, 12 years is just to long for a TT.

wing_zealot
Explorer
Explorer
Gdetrailer - your whole diatribe is based upon "people put themselves in a financial bind...". That isn't necessarily a true statement. As a matter of fact, most people pay off their loans without incident and living within their means.

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
GrandpaKip wrote:
delwhjr wrote:
spoon059 wrote:
wing_zealot wrote:
Last RV I bought I financed for 12 years at 4.2%. Over the same 12 years the money that I would have used to pay cash earned just shy of 7.6%. So tell me again how "Someone, anyone financing 5.4% for 12 years is making a bad move". I suggest you might stay away from giving financial advice, your not very good at it.

Well stated and thanks for proving my point in another way.

Technically speaking, putting that much money into a depreciating asset is a bad financial move. Hopefully nobody here considers a recreational vehicle a financial investment. I spent the money on my camper knowing full well that it was a more expensive way to travel and that I would likely never recoup the money I spent. We bought our camper so that our children would have the same adventures that I was fortunate enough to have growing up.

Camping allows me to take my wife and kids and pets to Florida for 2 weeks in the winter, the beach every summer, the lake several times a year, the mountains in the fall, occasional trips to cities like St. Augustine, Charleston, Savannah, NYC, etc. These are all adventures that we wouldn't otherwise take.

The money, while it is a lot for me, is inconsequential compared to the experiences that it allows my family to enjoy. I am very fortunate that I expect to pay my camper off within 4 years. Others aren't so lucky. If I had to chose between paying a lower monthly payment over a longer period of time or foregoing these trips with my family... I would likely chose a 12 year loan too. My family is worth it to me.


X2

My son and his wife are doing the same. The TV is financed and so is the camper. They are teachers and take their 3 children on summer long trips, as well as shorter trips during school breaks. If they had followed some of the "advice" given here, they would not have the great experiences of traveling.
As an aside, my daughter in law is a CPA and teaches accounting and finance in college. She has real credentials.


Off the box now.


Not true at all.

There IS another way.

It is called BUYING USED.

Sadly, too many people put themselves into a huge financial bind because they must have the newest, latest, greatest, biggest, most expensive RVs.

I am not ashamed that I own a 33 yr old TT, bought it for $700 10 yrs ago, took almost 2 yrs to gut and rebuild it and $4K in materials. Paid cash for the entire rebuild, not one penny of borrowed money.

I realize that not everyone has the talent to do what I did, but there is no reason why someone could not find away to buy a lower cost USED RV and not have to fork out large amounts of interest.

ANY REAL "Accountant" worth their "salt" would have a heart attack over financing a depreciating asset for long terms like 12yrs. Interest you pay in to a bank is your money lost forever and essentially eats into your buying power.

I am not saying that loans are bad, it is more of an issue of OVERPAYING ON DEBT.

Many folks come and look at these forums and never post will look at posts like yours and may feel the ONLY way to get what they want is to dig a BIGGER financial hole in the ground they will never recover from. THAT should bother you..

Sometimes it is better to COMPROMISE upfront and the compromise may be buying a used RV with not as much of your wish list. In most cases it won't be you LAST purchase, seems like folks tend to trade/sell their first RVs after they figure out what they like or dislike.. This tends to create those bad situations of rolling an existing loan into another in order to finance the next RV (IE UPSIDE DOWN ON THE LOAN).

nephi007
Explorer
Explorer
Howdy again. So cash vs financing for rv purchase.Yes it is not necessarily a sound decision to finance anything but if I get what I want (i.e. great family memories while rving too numerous to mention here)and the payment and interest rate are reasonable then I can make extra payments and pay it off sooner
rather than later. Sure ,I only use the trailer 3 to 5 weeks a year and in the summer at that as most people do but it is worth it. I had my trailer covered from October 2016 to just this week (on our way to the northwest) and parked in my back yard. I never resented the payment while stored cause I knew good times were coming. Not one size fits all lifestyle.