For the gas RV Fifth Wheel Hauler's out here.

[Mommytwo6girls]

Hi everyone,

I've been researching for a used 6 sitter truck. That can tow a fifth wheel GVWR 17K. Boy, it is truly a mind blowing experience!
I started with diesel. But, from my research. Diesel would use a lot of unwanted gas consumption using it as my everyday vehicle. We live in New England and the hard starting at 6:30am 5 days week to get my girls to school. That would be a challenge I think.
my girls and I only RV 2 months in the summer. Then a few weekends in the Spring/Fall. Then it goes into hibernation for the New England winter.
Right now I'm towing our Jayco Flight 32 TSBH GVWR 10,900LBS with a Ford F-250 Super Duty Crew Cab gas/FlexFuel.. GVWR12,200LBS/10,000LBS!

I have talked with my mechanic and he told me, nope do not get diesel... Just put adds on your F250 gasser and it'll do just fine.... Umm, after researching, reading tons of stuff... He could be putting my children and my life in harms way with 17K LBS behind us going 60 on a freeway in our F250.

Can anyone who pulls a fifth wheel with a gas truck help me in determining if that's impossible to do or if there is a used truck floating out there for sale. That can pull it safely and not prematurely damage the gas engine.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Durb]

jus2shy wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

jus2shy wrote:


But because diesels typically have fewer components, they tend to just not break down as often.

Just trying to give you the full story here and have you go in eyes wide open.

jus2shy,
In general I agree with your comments most of the time, but the above statement I don't agree with. The exhaust system alone on a diesel is way more complex which includes several moving parts (DEF pump, DEF injector). A diesel is simply way more complicated than a gas engine. Case in point todays Cummins trucks have way more CEL's than the Hemi trucks because of the complexity.

Yeah, for the post 2007 diesels they are more complex and the emissions have been a cause for fits (I even had a recall from my SCR catalyst done). But in particular she is looking at a 6.0 diesel. In that comment, I was speaking more to just the pre 07 engines in general (I shoulda clarified that). No ignition system to worry about. No throttle plate needed to maintain that stoichiometric air fuel blend (pre 07 anyways). And most anything on those motors should remain sealed up until about 250k or 300k miles once bullet proofed.

OP, glad you found powerstroke help. I find that guy pretty honest in what he talks about in his videos and shows quite a bit of experience with the motors. But there are many vendors out there that can perform the same services to bulletproof a diesel and make them solid trucks for the long haul.

Also, seeing that you looked at an older RAM (assuming pre 07), the issue with those trucks is you don't want to let them idle a lot in Park. The transmissions are known to chew up clutch packs because those transmissions don't circulate ATF when in Park, only when in gear or neutral (I think, it's been a while). So those rides could possibly need transmission work. The engine is pretty solid on RAMs from 2003 to 2007 where they use the common rail CP3 pump from Bosch (I think that's the range for pre 5.9 motors, someone will correct me if I'm wrong). The Cummins motor to look out for are ones powered by the VP44 injection pump, as they need a little more care (like better filters and fuel lift pumps) to ensure the VP44 was always fed enough fuel at all times. I think this was something like 1999 to 2002.

I have a pre 2007 RAM 1 ton dually with the 5.9 and 3.73 rear end. GCVWR is 21k# and the truck weighs 8k# with two occupants and hitch. Max tow rating is 13,500#. Bottom line is my truck is not suitable for a 17k fifth wheel. I think with the 4.10 axle it is rated 2k# higher but still not the right TV for a 17k trailer.

[jus2shy]

FishOnOne wrote:

jus2shy wrote:


But because diesels typically have fewer components, they tend to just not break down as often.

Just trying to give you the full story here and have you go in eyes wide open.

jus2shy,
In general I agree with your comments most of the time, but the above statement I don't agree with. The exhaust system alone on a diesel is way more complex which includes several moving parts (DEF pump, DEF injector). A diesel is simply way more complicated than a gas engine. Case in point todays Cummins trucks have way more CEL's than the Hemi trucks because of the complexity.

Yeah, for the post 2007 diesels they are more complex and the emissions have been a cause for fits (I even had a recall from my SCR catalyst done). But in particular she is looking at a 6.0 diesel. In that comment, I was speaking more to just the pre 07 engines in general (I shoulda clarified that). No ignition system to worry about. No throttle plate needed to maintain that stoichiometric air fuel blend (pre 07 anyways). And most anything on those motors should remain sealed up until about 250k or 300k miles once bullet proofed.

OP, glad you found powerstroke help. I find that guy pretty honest in what he talks about in his videos and shows quite a bit of experience with the motors. But there are many vendors out there that can perform the same services to bulletproof a diesel and make them solid trucks for the long haul.

Also, seeing that you looked at an older RAM (assuming pre 07), the issue with those trucks is you don't want to let them idle a lot in Park. The transmissions are known to chew up clutch packs because those transmissions don't circulate ATF when in Park, only when in gear or neutral (I think, it's been a while). So those rides could possibly need transmission work. The engine is pretty solid on RAMs from 2003 to 2007 where they use the common rail CP3 pump from Bosch (I think that's the range for pre 5.9 motors, someone will correct me if I'm wrong). The Cummins motor to look out for are ones powered by the VP44 injection pump, as they need a little more care (like better filters and fuel lift pumps) to ensure the VP44 was always fed enough fuel at all times. I think this was something like 1999 to 2002.

[Huntindog]

wing_zealot wrote:
If you get the diesel don't buy one without the supplemental heater and heated seats. Either that or you better buy the best coat, hat, gloves, and thermal underwear you can find - you're going to freeze to death in that diesel.

Most diesels now use EGR for emissions. That has many downsides, but one of the upsides is that the motor heats up and produces heat very fast.

These aren't your fathers diesels

[Mommytwo6girls]

RSD555, Thank you for the info. That sounds so painful! Thank goodness you made a full recovery!
There is tons to research on each makers of trucks. It's mind blowing!
I'm having a hard time figuring out what each truck is equipped with. Take this one as an example:
350 SuperDuty King Ranch; Power Stroke 6.0L V8 -->(DI 32V OHV)<--. I'm trying to educate my self with each truck companies abbreviations.. By next Spring I have it figured out lmao!

Merrykalia, Thank you for the advice of driving a few new ones.
The girls got home and explained to they, we're going truck test driving this weekend! Lol
They're excited and will be a huge help in deciding on which has the most tushy room!

Rhagfo,
I think I ran across an article of your Ole Faithful. Was a wonderful article as a whole.

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1708-readers-diesels/

Hope to find a diesel that will last us a lifetime as well. It's amazing to actually see/read how long a well token care of diesel will last.
Thank you to everyone for helping out on this voyage my family is taking!!

[Merrykalia]

We live in the mountains of SW Virginia and our house is about 1,000 ft higher than the surrounding town. We pull a 13K 5'er with our 2015 6.7L Ford F250 diesel. Our winter temps get down into the -10s and we have never had a problem with our truck starting, nor with heating up.

Several of the people commenting on diesel trucks are talking about 92s, 2005s, 2006s, 2008s and these have very little to do with the diesel trucks that are manufactured today. Lots of innovations to the diesel engines have occurred in the last 5 years, especially in the last 20!

Learn everything you can about diesel engines, go test drive a new one of each brand so you know how they SHOULD sound; drive. Then, head out and see what you can find in the used variety, if you want.

With the size of RV you are considering, you will definitely need a 350/3500 diesel and I would highly suggest a dually. You will not be happy with the setup if you don't.

[RSD559]

Mommytwo6girls wrote:
Thank you Valhalla360.
A 550 did cross my mind. I found one in AZ for sale.
If you look at pictures. You can see the door sticker and get a peek at the strings, body frame.
https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/30153524

Totally agree with your last statement!

The 6.0 PSD is one to be careful with. I believe they had ironed out the wrinkles by 2006 model year. My 2003 had a few problems out of warranty, and were a pain to fix (HPOP, injector harness), and pretty pricey. But I do miss it. The HPOP fix nearly killed me. I was standing on a flimsy 18" stepping stool to reach the back of the engine where the pump is, and it gave way. Dragged my whole gut and chest along the radiator and front of the engine. A few days later, I had blood clots floating to my lungs. The doc said it had nothing to do with the bruising, but I think that's too much of a coincidence.
Back on point. You can find a list of what to expect to break on the 6.0 for the various production years on several diesel forums. I'd check those out before pulling the trigger. Looks like a real good deal, though.

[Mommytwo6girls]

Thank you Valhalla360.
A 550 did cross my mind. I found one in AZ for sale.
If you look at pictures. You can see the door sticker and get a peek at the strings, body frame.
https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/30153524

Totally agree with your last statement!

[valhalla360]

Ron3rd wrote:

Mommytwo6girls wrote:
Thank you Rhagfo and Mattmountz94!

I went back to my mechanic and explained what I found out in doing the Adds and he said he wouldn't work on any diesel I got...
So, will be in search of a new mechanic as well. ??

You're asking all the right questions, keep 'em coming.

BTW, some mechanics aren't familiar with diesels and don't work on them. That's nothing against their ability.

I wouldn't hold it against him that he just doesn't work on them... but I would run away fast when he is directing you to do something stupid so he can keep your business.

A mechanic dealing with trucks who tells you a 3/4ton gas truck is good for a 17k trailer is either incompetent or dishonest.

[valhalla360]

Michelle.S wrote:
At 17K you're looking at newer 350/3500 Duallies. The newer crop of Diesels have glow plugs to help with cold weather starting, plus for northern area sales, a block heater is a mandatory option (at least with GMs), which allows you to plug the truck in during extreme cold temps. Also most of the current Diesels will probably get better mileage than your 250 both solo and towing.

At 17k, dually diesel is the minimum. You might even consider jumping up to a 450/550 at that size. The V10 can probably pull it on flat ground but hit an overpass and it will be downshifting.

Glow plugs and engine block heaters are not a new idea. Our last truck was a 92 F250 with the 7.3 and it had both. We had it in Michigan and it always started fine (sold it 2-3yrs ago).

As far as MPG, the old 7.3 got 20-22mpg running around town. Our new V10 gets 14-16mpg running around town. Similar towing 12.8mpg long term vs 9.5mpg.

All engines (gas or diesel) are much happier if you get them up to temperature regularly. So if you have a 2mile commute, both will not like it.

[Mommytwo6girls]

I honestly wasn't making fun of his comment.
I'm taking to heart everything y'all are educating my self and my girls on. Switching from a gas engine girl to a diesel. It's a huge scary thing. Everything that goes on with my truck. I will be teaching 6 girls along the way. That being us freezing our tushies off at 6am for school!
Am sorry if my comment came off that way.

[troubledwaters]

wing_zealot wrote:
If you get the diesel don't buy one without the supplemental heater and heated seats. Either that or you better buy the best coat, hat, gloves, and thermal underwear you can find - you're going to freeze to death in that diesel.

Mommytwo6girls wrote:
Wing_zealot lol!
Lol, Some things we do for RVing...

I don't think he was joking. Heating the Cab and defrosting the windows in a diesel is a real issue and you live in a cold climate.

[Mommytwo6girls]

Jerem0621,


These are the two diesels I saw in person at the beginning of my search. Both had service records.

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/27923765

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/31689776#

Out of both. I liked the Ram more. It's records seemed more legit. It was used on a farm in New York pulling horse trailers. They put it up on the left for me to see under it.
The Ford dealer wouldn't let it go on a left for me to see under it. It was used for RV fifth wheel towing only.

[Mommytwo6girls]

Thank you everyone for the information!
It's really helping me figure out which way to go.

jus2shy , I did find http://www.powerstrokehelp.com/company/facility.asp.
Researching his videos has helped also.
I've hit road blocks with speaking to people I know. It was becoming frustrating to say the least.
But, I feel 100 percent better now going with diesel. I first started with searching out diesel. Then everyone I spoke to shot it down.
That is why I reached out here for help.
I don't feel like there truly is something capable of towing in a gas engine..
Now the fun begins on searching for something used for everyday driving and towing our RV. 🙂

[blt2ski]

Have not had a BIG 3 pickup diesel using DPF setups. But did put 160K on an mb Sprinter van.......Great rig! No it would not tote 17K lbs........but had no issues with newest emissions products etc.

As far as starting in cold temps....my 92 IDI7.3 is the hardest to start, my 96 6.5 was not bad down to 10F or so, below that it was a knocker for a minute or two. My 05 Dmax was let the glo plugs do there thing, start up, no issues to 0F! My boat is a pain, but it does not have glo plugs or equal. My trackhoe and bobcat, have manual turning on of glo plugs, let the plugs run for 10-20 secs, they also start right up in 10-20F temps......need to let the latter two warm up a bit before use, but that is mostly to get the hydraulic fluid semi warm and moving.

Marty

[Trackrig]

"We live in New England and the hard starting at 6:30am 5 days week to get my girls to school."???

There's probably more diesel 3/4 and 1 ton trucks in Alaska than gas trucks - we don't have a problem with them at all. Plug them in if it's cold out. And they heat up just fine - if you put on a grill cover, they may heat faster than a gas truck.

Bill