Frigid lesson learned

[stickbowjoe]

I lived in my 2004 Lance 1010 for 10 years.

Much of that was in Colorado, and I winterized the water system every fall, and worked from jugs.

The last 2+ years I have been in west Texas, and used the demand water system year round.

No problems until this week. It has been brutal. Single digits every morning.

To compound matters, i am in my new 2013 Lance 850 1 week today.

It is a "basement" camper. My 1010 was not.

In an effort to conserve propane, I have been using an electric heater.

I woke up this morning to 5 degrees, and a frozen water system.

I was devastated. Had I ruined my new home with water damage?

Fortunately,or more accurately blessedIy, I had not.

Ran the propane furnace, things thawed out, and all is well.

I feel like I got away with a very stupid decision.

Electric heaters are for moderate temps, I reckon.

When it gets really cold, you gotta run that furnace. It does more than keep the living area comfy.

I am sure this has been addressed before, but I think it may be timely in this insane weather in the southern tier of states.

Carry on.

Joe

[sky_free]

Butch50 wrote:
If I'm reading Kerry right you would need a single pole double throw switch. You need to have 3 poles on the switch. One (being the center) as the common to the circulation fan. One on the side of the switch that is a 12VDC feed from one source and the other side of the switch would have a separate 12VDC feed. You want to be able to use the little circulation fan independently or with the furnace. So on the center pole you would want the lead going to the circulation fan. On one of the other poles you want the lead from the furnace that would normally kick on the circulation fan. On the other pole you would want another 12VDC supply line so when the furnace isn't running and you are using the electric heat you would still be able to turn on the little circulation fan to keep heat going to the basement.

I guess you could get along with a single throw as long as you have the 3 poles on the back side of the switch. Then the 3 poles would be wired like I stated above.

I always like the double throw that way if I want to turn off power totally to the circulation fan I do that by putting the switch in the center position. I just wired my enclosed trailer this way. I installed backup/docking lights and have switched it so if I put the truck into reverse with the switch in this position the docking lights come on. But I also wanted the lights to work off the aux 12VDC battery I installed in the trailer when not hooked to the truck so I wired it off this switch.

Kerry if I'm wrong please correct me.

Yes, that all makes a lot of sense, but I don't need an "off" position, which would be something I could possibly forget about and which could cause a problem for me. What I'm talking about (in simple terms) is tapping into the positive power lead just before the fan with a wire extended from the positive battery terminal. That wire would have a switch that would interrupt the power when off, and complete the circuit when on. I don't think I would need a diode to prevent back-feed into the positive coming from the furnace since that is normally interrupted unless the furnace is on.

I like your alternative, which accomplishes the same thing and makes all the connections at the switch instead of at the fan, with no concern for back-feeding power.

[Butch50]

If I'm reading Kerry right you would need a single pole double throw switch. You need to have 3 poles on the switch. One (being the center) as the common to the circulation fan. One on the side of the switch that is a 12VDC feed from one source and the other side of the switch would have a separate 12VDC feed. You want to be able to use the little circulation fan independently or with the furnace. So on the center pole you would want the lead going to the circulation fan. On one of the other poles you want the lead from the furnace that would normally kick on the circulation fan. On the other pole you would want another 12VDC supply line so when the furnace isn't running and you are using the electric heat you would still be able to turn on the little circulation fan to keep heat going to the basement.

I guess you could get along with a single throw as long as you have the 3 poles on the back side of the switch. Then the 3 poles would be wired like I stated above.

I always like the double throw that way if I want to turn off power totally to the circulation fan I do that by putting the switch in the center position. I just wired my enclosed trailer this way. I installed backup/docking lights and have switched it so if I put the truck into reverse with the switch in this position the docking lights come on. But I also wanted the lights to work off the aux 12VDC battery I installed in the trailer when not hooked to the truck so I wired it off this switch.

Kerry if I'm wrong please correct me.

[sky_free]

kerry4951 wrote:

stickbowjoe wrote:


Electric heaters are for moderate temps, I reckon.

When it gets really cold, you gotta run that furnace. It does more than keep the living area comfy.

Not really. I installed a single pole 3 way switch into the basement fan so I can bypass the furnace mode and have the fan run while I am heating with my baseboard electric heater. I dont need the furnace to run while still circulating heat into the basement.

Can I ask why a 3-way? Seems like you should just use a simple on/off single-pole switch. Tap into the positive that is triggered when the furnace comes on with the positive from the switch. Sorry to revive this old thread, but I'm thinking of doing the same thing and am in the planning stages. Any other details you can provide would be great too, like where you put the switch.

[kerry4951]

stickbowjoe wrote:


Electric heaters are for moderate temps, I reckon.

When it gets really cold, you gotta run that furnace. It does more than keep the living area comfy.

Not really. I installed a single pole 3 way switch into the basement fan so I can bypass the furnace mode and have the fan run while I am heating with my baseboard electric heater. I dont need the furnace to run while still circulating heat into the basement.

[stickbowjoe]

Helpful bunch hereabouts.

Thanks all.

Joe

[bka0721]

A couple of sheets of Fiberglass insulation, stuff in the door opening of your valve bay, is good strategy too. A remote thermometer placed in there, to monitor your temps, with the reporting thermometer inside the TC is worth the money having it. There are lots of info here, on living in the cold, in this forum. For me, I never winterize and don't have electricity, like you do. Come June, I will have been on the road, 5 years. I just don't park, like you do. So you have that advantage. Find a very small electric heater or a trouble light, to turn on during those cold night drops. Just make sure there is adequate clearance, so you don't melt things or start a fire.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

b

[Glacier_D]

I have 2 heat vent ducts to my basement (4" and 2") plus I have a switched commuter fan to circulate air into there from the main living area, haven't had any issues with the lines freezing in temps down to -10F. Have to run the furnace though.

Just went through those temps for the past 2 days, propane was giving me issues (couldn't run the onboard and the furnace at the same time, my Honda 2000 pull cord broke and my truck batteries went dead, but I never froze up. Murphy's Law prevailed yesterday at least to some extent. Many bad words said when the cord broke considering I just paid to have it replaced two weeks ago.

[stickbowjoe]

Wow!

Much to study there, insp1505. Looks like you have this stuff figured out.

I just scanned through it, but I'll look in depth tomorrow.

The fan to basement needs to happen.

Thanks.

Joe

[insp1505]

If you want to use electric heat in a basement model TC during cold weather you can. You just have to put a system in place to blow warm air from the living space down into the basement. I have done it to both of my TC's for living in them in Idaho and Oregon during the winter at temps well below 0F. This way you can have full use of your onboard water systems and not have to worry about frozen pipes or winterizing and using jugs.

In 4 years I have winterized once just for practice. I only left it winterized for a couple days while I went on a trip. I could have more easily and cheaply just left the heat on but I wanted to know I could go through the process of winterizing if I needed to.

Here are a couple links to what I did. Scroll down to the part with the basement fans. I put two fans in my Arctic fox. My current Northern Lite has only needed one to do the job because it is much smaller. Just find a place in a wall or cabinet that leads to the basement on the back side.

Winter mods 1

Winter mods 2

Propane jumped from $2.75 to $3.55 a gal a week or so ago. Electricity is $0.07 kWh. I run the electric heat only when I am home, so in the evenings and over night probably 12-14 hours a day. I spent $18.00 on electricity last month. I don't leave my electric heater on during the day while I am gone so I heat with propane at the lowest setting while I'm gone about 10-12 hours a day and my water heater is propane only. I spend about $70/month on propane doing this. If I was home all the time I'd just run the electric heat exclusively.

[WesternRoamer]

Good wake up call for anyone running wet in the winter. What is *your* contingency plan?

[stickbowjoe]

TC-

Nope, no such panels apparent.

Thanks for the thought, though.

I rigged up to my 100# tank today.

I got propane to BURN! 🙂

Joe

[the_tc_life]

not sure with your camper but do you have access panels that can come off to get to the tanks and such from the inside? I take my panels off below my bathroom and other cabinets. that way the heat from the electric heater can get in there. is it a great airflow...no but it works fine. I store the panels so I don't damage them.
x2 on seeing some people use a small computer fan or something like that to move the heat also.

[kbaum]

Joe almost happened to me before then the thought came to me I am not heating the basement, with electric heat some have rigged fans to take the warm air down when using electric heat I just use the propane heater and the electric heater.

Dboy, I typically use 1 gallon of RV antifreeze, maybe slightly more, I do not run it through my fresh water tank. I run the antifreeze directly through the water pump bypassing the fresh water tank and have a bypass on the hot water heater so that the antifreeze does not pass through the water heater. Drain the water out of the water heater. Also make sure all of your plumbing traps including the shower drain have antifreeze. A fairly easy process once you have done it several times. I live in Wyoming so I do it a lot.

[stickbowjoe]

True facts above, Desertboy.

Joe