GM 1500/Tahoe recall. Not good.

[goducks10]

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/05/recall-alert-2014-chevrolet-silverado-and-gmc-sierra-2015-chevr...

Fortunately it's not that many.

[Terryallan]

Can I stop production? Well yes. The other day before I left for my four off. One of my guys called me, told me the part didn't "look" right. I took it, had it checked and sure nuff it was soft. So I took every lot from that batch out of production. Shut down production for 8 hours. Did I get fussed at Nope. What we got was GOOD CATCH!, and he will more than likely get a $100.00 gift card for stopping bad parts from going to assembly.
So ALL HUGE companies don't work the same way. No quality, No sales

[BenK]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Fordlover it's easy for a small company, but for a large companies it is all about numbers. Yep even you're beloved Ford is run the same way as GM. It's all about the bottom line for them, unlike the smaller companies. Want true quality have your car built by hand. Otherwise you get a mas produced vehicle with there down falls.

Don

Here is my take on how right on you are, but in a world economy point
of view

In the old days here in the USA and more so in Japan/Taiwan/Korea/etc
they purchased from tons of vendors for the exact same component/system/etc

They ALL looked exactly the same: same base part number...except for
a suffix indication which vendor; same looking box; etc. You could and
did not tell them apart except for that suffix. Mixed in stock and
sorted FIFO

The 'leveraged model' from business schools teaching was to also consolidate
everything to lever volume.

Lost was the attention a small company, corporation, etc gave. Ditto
that down the line from the Chairman to CEO to GMs to middle managers
and finally to the production floor. Toss in service

The really big change in the USA was the realization of lost quality
vs foreign (included European) quality. Not saying American workers
could NOT, but saying they were NOT allowed to. Because of the volume
mandated by their bottom line...more on that at the end of this soap box

Just in Time was thought to be the savior of American production, but
they (bean counter management) didn't know that it was the culture
not the pure bottom line numbers. Today it is a ditto with 'lean'

When one of those many, many vendors messed up (they all do some time
or another...I do too) they had volumes of other vendors that would
make up the short fall. That is part of what 'lean' is about, but again
the USA bean counter management doesn't get it.

We 'kill' that vendor and toss them away

Over there in Asia, they put that vendor in a penalty box and let
them back in via trials. All the while the other vendors continue
to ship. Once that one or several suppliers meet their quality requirements,
they are then fully accepted.

With only one or two vendors...the whole production line runs out
of parts. The last Toyota throttle recall is an example of Toyota
adopting American and abandoning their old Japanese ways. Stop ship,
line down and total recall. It was a design flaw, so all would have
also gone down...but...with tons of suppliers, they would have had
production supply start up sooner than via one humongo supplier


Back to the topic of smaller firms feeding humongo OEM's.

If there is an issue (design flaw, production, supplier, etc) in a
BIG OEM, the middle managers will jump in, but they don't know their
product, design, nor production (methods, tooling, etc, etc to workers)

They typically will NOT consult their employee on the line...nor will
the line folks really feel motivated to help, as their solutions that
work, usually get credited to those middle managers

IN a smaller...EVERYONE is involved and their resolutions happen
faster and many times a better solution because they have input from
the worker on the line. This also motivates the person on the line
to keep an eye on everything *AND* willing to call a line down without
fear of unreasonable reprisal(s)

[Hybridhunter]

spoon059 wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
How many times can one say "my bad"?

When the government bails you out and you have a brand loyal customer base, you can do it quite often...

BINGO!

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

There are some very nice RV's out there, you just have to pay the piper if you want a high end unit. I have been inside many of the RV factories and can assure you they are built on an assembly line just like our cars and trucks.

Don

[hone_eagle]

Built by hand ....like our RV's ?

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

Fordlover it's easy for a small company, but for a large companies it is all about numbers. Yep even you're beloved Ford is run the same way as GM. It's all about the bottom line for them, unlike the smaller companies. Want true quality have your car built by hand. Otherwise you get a mas produced vehicle with there down falls.

Don

[Fordlover]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

waynec1957 wrote:
As I posted in another thread, I retired from GM after 30 years in production. One of the big things I saw over the years was a gradual taking away of workers’ decision making capability, particularly in the areas of quality. There was always some “program of the day” that, for all intents and purposes, was meant to give workers the ability to report quality concerns.

In my experience, for the most part, these were nothing more than window dressing when it came to solving real problems. Likewise there were always a small percentage of workers willing to use these programs to get a little extra seat time. The most effective program I saw during my time there was a joint GM/UAW program where the immediate people responsible could be bypassed. In any case, I’ve seen a lot of product go out the door that a bunch of people knew had problems.
Empowerment of the work force is just a catch phrase nothing more. I will say in a parts plant it is a little different than an assembly plant.

AND, I can promise that every day in every GM assembly plant in the US someone is getting time off for refusing (legitimately) to run bad product. Any worker who intentionally shuts down an assembly line at a General Motors facility, for ANY reason, will be shown the door, regardless how much protection anyone thinks they might have.
It's amazing the number of people that refuse to believe this!

As far as the calibration issue, I’ve seen (more times than I can count) product or processes run out of specifications and some manager or tech change the calibration tools to fit the tolerances. There were some mighty sharp pencils floating around in those days.
I have been told to "open" the tolerance so a gage will buy marginal parts. Funny thing when you tell them to put it in writing and you want a copy of it they never do it! I have been threatened to be walked out for refusing to do just that. I have yet to have been walked to the gate.

That said, I’ve owned 7 GMC or Chevy trucks since 1979 (including the one I have now) and never had a serious problem with any of them. So for whatever reason, most of the time the manufacturing process worked. I did however have a 1994 1500 Dodge Ram that the transmission went south after less than 10,000 miles.
When the R700 went on line GM knew the front cover pump would leak internally but ran them anyway. It took Toledo Powertrain all most a year to fix the issue. But they still built those transmissions, why because back then the warranty was only 12/12 and they knew that would not fail under warranty and their customer would eat the cost of the repair.

Something no one as mentioned that needs consideration is where these vehicles were manufactured. I can’t find anywhere which specific models are affected by this particular recall (I’m working on it), but I know for certain the 2014 Silverado and Sierra Crew Cabs were assembled in Silao Mexico. This plant has been open since the mid-90s and also produces some 5.3L and 6.0l engines. Anyone who thinks those workers have a voice in the production process or a “union mouth piece” needs to go tour one of those plants.
The Chrysler Mexican plants are Unionized for what it's worth.

As far as the other recalls, from what I’m told the affected vehicles were made at several different plants, so that tells me it’s a process problem.

Man I'm glad I don't work it Auto production. The plant I work in (downhole oil tools) we all work together to make a quality product. That includes QA, Production, Engineering, planning, buyers, etc. We do have problems, but we try to solve them and stay customer focused.

[Terryallan]

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
Seems GM wants back every vehicle they have ever made...

Actually, they probably have more than 50,000,000 (50 Million) more vehicles to go in the US!

Wait for it. :B

[Dadoffourgirls]

Terryallan wrote:
Seems GM wants back every vehicle they have ever made...

Actually, they probably have more than 50,000,000 (50 Million) more vehicles to go in the US!

[Terryallan]

Seems GM wants back every vehicle they have ever made.

Motoramic

Yet more GM recalls for Malibu, Traverse, Escalade, Silverado and others

.

Justin Hyde
By Justin Hyde
57 minutes ago

Motoramic

2014 Chevrolet Traverse

General Motors doesn't release a recall every day, but you could be forgiven for thinking it does.

Less than a week after issuing four recalls for 2.7 million vehicles, the nation's largest automaker today announced an additional four recalls covering 2.4 million cars, pickups and SUVs. While none of the safety problems GM revealed today have been linked to deaths, a few are serious enough for GM to tell dealers they can't sell the models until fixed and, in one instance, informed owners to not let passengers ride in the front seat.

The four recalls revealed today include:

— 1,339,355 Buick Enclave, Chevrolet Traverse, GMC Acadia full-size crossovers from the 2009-2014 model years and Saturn Outlooks from 2009-2010, because front safety lap belt cables can wear out over time. GM says it will stop selling new Traverses, Enclaves and Acadias until the repairs can be made.

— 1,075,102 of Chevrolet Malibus from the 2004-2008 model years and Pontiac G6 from the 2005-2008 model years with 4-speed automatic transmissions. A sister car, the Saturn Aura, was recalled in April for shift cables that could wear out over time, making it impossible to put the car in the right gear or park, or remove the key. GM says it's now adding the other models due to reports of 18 crashes and one injury among Malibu/G6 owners; it's unclear why GM didn't recall all the affected models in April.

— 1,402 new 2015 Cadillac Escalades and Escalade ESVs for a weak plastic weld that attaches the passenger side air bag to the instrument panel, which could keep the air bag from fully deploying in a crash. GM says dealers will stop selling new Escalades until they're fixed, and has sent overnight letters to 224 Escalade owners telling them to not let people sit in the front passenger seat.

— 58 Chevrolet Silverado HD and GMC Sierra HD full-size pickups from the 2015 model year for clips that hold the generator fuse block to the body, which can come loose and lead to a potential fire.

Taken together, GM says the new recalls bring the total it's set aside for fixing defective vehicles to $1.7 billion this year, stretching back to the ignition problem in 2.6 million cars tied to 13 deaths. with some 29 separate recalls issued so far this year.

Last week, GM admitted it had broken federal law on vehicle recalls, agreeing to pay a $35 million fine to federal auto safety regulators and allow them broad oversight of the company's practices for the next year. So far in 2014, GM has said it needs to fix nearly 14 million vehicles, and given how frequently it's discovering problems, that total seems poised to rise further.

[BenK]

So nice to finally hear from folks inside these OEMs, albeit on the
floor, but never the less, an insiders view/comments/etc that I whole
heartily agree

As 'line down' is unknown to folks out side of the process.

The calls that even the design team/manager (me) gets at any time of
the day or week...albeit high end computing (super computers) to fix
'my' problem...

That kind of notice goes to the CEO, COO, President, GM, etc and they
*ALL* run around like chickens with their heads cut off...trying to make
managerial decisions to look good, but lost in the frey is that they
were the lamebrains who made the decision that may caused this in the
first place

I was in the automation & process business and heard this as a constant:
"remove the people and replace with the robotic XYZ"...but they never
listened to the part of my presentations that, that will then require
a higher level of maintenance with an even higher and more expensive
'worker'.

They never seemed to have read that, and if they did, ignored that to
pass that responsibility to the line ops manager(s)

This particular thread is telling to me...as to how often they have
regularly schedule 'maintenance' of their tooling. The numbers of
vehicles divided by the numbers built per day/week/month.

A 'person' with the training and longevity on the job would have known
or should have known way before the quality checks, that the torque
was either too much or not enough, or both

A robot is only as good as it's maintenance and the "people" involved
directly.

The low hanging fruit that management normally picks on is the folks
on the line that have no or little input on their decisions...

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

waynec1957 wrote:
As I posted in another thread, I retired from GM after 30 years in production. One of the big things I saw over the years was a gradual taking away of workers’ decision making capability, particularly in the areas of quality. There was always some “program of the day” that, for all intents and purposes, was meant to give workers the ability to report quality concerns.

In my experience, for the most part, these were nothing more than window dressing when it came to solving real problems. Likewise there were always a small percentage of workers willing to use these programs to get a little extra seat time. The most effective program I saw during my time there was a joint GM/UAW program where the immediate people responsible could be bypassed. In any case, I’ve seen a lot of product go out the door that a bunch of people knew had problems.
Empowerment of the work force is just a catch phrase nothing more. I will say in a parts plant it is a little different than an assembly plant.

AND, I can promise that every day in every GM assembly plant in the US someone is getting time off for refusing (legitimately) to run bad product. Any worker who intentionally shuts down an assembly line at a General Motors facility, for ANY reason, will be shown the door, regardless how much protection anyone thinks they might have.
It's amazing the number of people that refuse to believe this!

As far as the calibration issue, I’ve seen (more times than I can count) product or processes run out of specifications and some manager or tech change the calibration tools to fit the tolerances. There were some mighty sharp pencils floating around in those days.
I have been told to "open" the tolerance so a gage will buy marginal parts. Funny thing when you tell them to put it in writing and you want a copy of it they never do it! I have been threatened to be walked out for refusing to do just that. I have yet to have been walked to the gate.

That said, I’ve owned 7 GMC or Chevy trucks since 1979 (including the one I have now) and never had a serious problem with any of them. So for whatever reason, most of the time the manufacturing process worked. I did however have a 1994 1500 Dodge Ram that the transmission went south after less than 10,000 miles.
When the R700 went on line GM knew the front cover pump would leak internally but ran them anyway. It took Toledo Powertrain all most a year to fix the issue. But they still built those transmissions, why because back then the warranty was only 12/12 and they knew that would not fail under warranty and their customer would eat the cost of the repair.

Something no one as mentioned that needs consideration is where these vehicles were manufactured. I can’t find anywhere which specific models are affected by this particular recall (I’m working on it), but I know for certain the 2014 Silverado and Sierra Crew Cabs were assembled in Silao Mexico. This plant has been open since the mid-90s and also produces some 5.3L and 6.0l engines. Anyone who thinks those workers have a voice in the production process or a “union mouth piece” needs to go tour one of those plants.
The Chrysler Mexican plants are Unionized for what it's worth.

As far as the other recalls, from what I’m told the affected vehicles were made at several different plants, so that tells me it’s a process problem.

[waynec1957]

As I posted in another thread, I retired from GM after 30 years in production. One of the big things I saw over the years was a gradual taking away of workers’ decision making capability, particularly in the areas of quality. There was always some “program of the day” that, for all intents and purposes, was meant to give workers the ability to report quality concerns.

In my experience, for the most part, these were nothing more than window dressing when it came to solving real problems. Likewise there were always a small percentage of workers willing to use these programs to get a little extra seat time. The most effective program I saw during my time there was a joint GM/UAW program where the immediate people responsible could be bypassed. In any case, I’ve seen a lot of product go out the door that a bunch of people knew had problems.

AND, I can promise that every day in every GM assembly plant in the US someone is getting time off for refusing (legitimately) to run bad product. Any worker who intentionally shuts down an assembly line at a General Motors facility, for ANY reason, will be shown the door, regardless how much protection anyone thinks they might have.

As far as the calibration issue, I’ve seen (more times than I can count) product or processes run out of specifications and some manager or tech change the calibration tools to fit the tolerances. There were some mighty sharp pencils floating around in those days.

That said, I’ve owned 7 GMC or Chevy trucks since 1979 (including the one I have now) and never had a serious problem with any of them. So for whatever reason, most of the time the manufacturing process worked. I did however have a 1994 1500 Dodge Ram that the transmission went south after less than 10,000 miles.

Something no one as mentioned that needs consideration is where these vehicles were manufactured. I can’t find anywhere which specific models are affected by this particular recall (I’m working on it), but I know for certain the 2014 Silverado and Sierra Crew Cabs were assembled in Silao Mexico. This plant has been open since the mid-90s and also produces some 5.3L and 6.0l engines. Anyone who thinks those workers have a voice in the production process or a “union mouth piece” needs to go tour one of those plants.

As far as the other recalls, from what I’m told the affected vehicles were made at several different plants, so that tells me it’s a process problem.

[Terryallan]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Got to say Terry it sure would be nice to run like that. I work in the gage lab and have had some very heated discussions with a few of our management. I have known our plant manager for 15 years and when I send him an e-mail things usually happen. I have been threatened to be walked out by a few stupidvisers. I just look them dead in the eye and tell them I can use a paid vacation, lets do it. But no vacations for me :W .

I get the whole we have to make rate, but at what cost? Every time you have to run a part back through and machine you have lost 2 parts! The part you are handled the second time, then the part that you should be running!

Just shut the machine down and fix it for goodness sake. But oh no that would cause downtime and downtime is bad!, but re-running parts is not bad?

I guess I just don't understand the workings of a modern business model, like these guys and gals with their fancy degrees and such.

Don

Agree. Lose 2 parts at a minimum when you Rework. We marry the ring to the pinion. So when we fail a set, It takes 4 parts to fix the first 2, and that's IF they both pass with the new ring or pin. Usually one doesn't. So they don't say a whole lot when it takes awhile to hit the magic offset. The operators give me more grief than my coach. They are the ones that have to make production.

Thing is. What I do. there is no gage, or M&M machine to tell me what offset to make. The tester gives me an idea. But it is experience, and training that helps to make the correct move, and it don't always happen the first try. Sometimes it take several moves to get where you need to go. Sort of an educated guess, if you will.