Help making a decision on truck purchase.

[Camaurice]

I am thinking of buying a new truck to pull our winnebago micro Minnie 5th wheel. We currently have a 2006 gmc 2500 . I’d like to go with a smaller truck for gas mileage and was thinking of a Toyota Tundra or GMC 1500 4x4. While the trailer is fairly light and we’ve been told a 1500 can pull this trailer, I’d like to hear other opinions. Is there anyone who has any experience towing smaller 5th wheels with these trucks? . Gross Vehicle Weight is 7000 on the trailer.

[mdcamping]

Camaurice wrote:
I am thinking of buying a new truck to pull our winnebago micro Minnie 5th wheel. We currently have a 2006 gmc 2500 . I’d like to go with a smaller truck for gas mileage and was thinking of a Toyota Tundra or GMC 1500 4x4. While the trailer is fairly light and we’ve been told a 1500 can pull this trailer, I’d like to hear other opinions. Is there anyone who has any experience towing smaller 5th wheels with these trucks? . Gross Vehicle Weight is 7000 on the trailer.

If you do ever come back to this thread, this is one option if you order a 4X4 F-150 with both the trailer tow PKG & heavy duty payload PKG should give you a payload around 2500#. I have no issues pulling my Jayco 24 RBS. (GTW is 7500# and scaled at 7000#)

Mike

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Find a good trans shop now if it just started the shudder. My 2016 (same truck/trans as yours) did that for the first 60k of its life before coming apart.
I took the truck in with a couple thousand miles on it and told the dealer the TQ converter had an issue. Of course “cannot replicate” was the finding. Mine only did it under high load from a stop. Of course you can’t replicate that by driving an empty truck around the block…lol.
I’m all but certain the “shudder “ didn’t do any damage downstream until something finally came apart. Like I said, did it since new, never got appreciably worse, truck was horse whipped pretty hard in that 60k miles. Like bumper pull trailers in the 10-14k range flat peddled up n over the Cascades with 4-5000rpm grade braking comin down the other side.
Then one day it started acting up.
I never read about the issue much (company truck, didn’t care) but from a practical standpoint I’m 90% sure a new tq converter before it self destructed would have saved the trans without propagating more issues.
Hope this helps.

And the 4wd issue is likely unrelated (fortunately or unfortunately depending how you look at it).

Is your 02 an Alli or a 4L80? 100k miles maybe a bit more is a good/average lifespan for a 4L60/4L80.

The 1500 has a shudder/shake to it sitting at a light, but only sometimes. Shifting to neutral causes it to stop.

Transmission temperatures are pushing 190 just driving around, which is what's really bothering me. I never really paid attention before, but I can't remember it getting that hot, even towing.

The 02 is the Allison. 52,000 miles on it. Throwing P0700, P0843 and P0875 codes... All just say something amorphous about "low pressure" which is a "WELL DUH!" from me... It won't move!

Sorry to the OP for hijacking. I won't discuss further.

It’s all good. OP can get some real world opinions if anyone else who tows a 5ver with a half ton shows up. Guessing those folks are few and far between on a forum seemingly dedicated to recommending a dually for more than a full cart of groceries… lol.

Regarding your half ton, that’s the start of it. I bet if you hooked 10klbs to it and mashed the skinny pedal from a stop with no tire spin you’d feel it then as well.
I don’t have definitive data other than the same issue for 60k miles until she pooped the bed one day….not towing.

Regarding the Alli, unless mice chewed wires, likely a stuck valve from age/lack of use. 2400miles per year, average, assuming some years less or none as well is the definition of things going “bad” from not being used. Imo.
But there’s virtually no chance the trans is toast unless there’s more to the story.
Have you tried clearing the codes and see if maybe it was in limp mode and pulls its act together?


Sounds like you need a trusted intuitive Indy trans guy who isn’t trying to fund his coke habit or entire retirement off of just mkirsch! Lol. I know good shops are hard to come by.

[PA12DRVR]

Somewhere in the past 6 pages, the OP stated that he was looking at a replacement vehicle to get into 4WD.....and since he was getting into 4WD, he wanted to evaluate 1/2 ton options.

- Having made a couple cycles of living in AK then Texas then AK and finally resting in AK, I consider 4WD a must have. With the steep driveway I have at the house, I wouldn't get 2WD out without tirechains and a freshly plowed path. FWIW, one fine January day a while back, I lost the TC on my little wrangler turning it into a poseur 2WD. Had to get a snatch and grab with the local wrecker service and the Wrangler wasn't under the "discount towing" insurance. So $185 dollars later, it was out of my driveway ready to drive under 2WD to the shop. Long way of saying that 4WD has at least the potential to save some big $$ hits and might offset a lot of fuel costs.
- So if 4WD is something the OP wants, that may resolve the "buy or not" decision.
- If buying....it's up to each person, but in my case, I'm a follow the numbers guy; If I was buying, I'd want to buy within the GVWR / GCVWR #'s. So confirm the weight of your 5th wheel (including pin weight) and use that for shopping.
- As to what to buy, the market is still different than what it was but it may be getting back to normal. Dunno, but it still seems like prices and interest rates on new vehicles are pretty high.
- Can't speak for CA or the mountain west, but up here, if one can get a good bargain on a used 4WD, the time to get that bargain is early summer long before even a hint of the coming winter....
- If that holds true elsewhere, it might be possible to source a good used 4WD 3/4 ton that would clearly handle the OP's trailer...and likely quite a bit below the cost of a new 1/2 ton.
- Maybe that cost savings for a bit more competent truck would ease the pain of not getting any better MPG.

[mkirsch]

Grit dog wrote:
Find a good trans shop now if it just started the shudder. My 2016 (same truck/trans as yours) did that for the first 60k of its life before coming apart.
I took the truck in with a couple thousand miles on it and told the dealer the TQ converter had an issue. Of course “cannot replicate” was the finding. Mine only did it under high load from a stop. Of course you can’t replicate that by driving an empty truck around the block…lol.
I’m all but certain the “shudder “ didn’t do any damage downstream until something finally came apart. Like I said, did it since new, never got appreciably worse, truck was horse whipped pretty hard in that 60k miles. Like bumper pull trailers in the 10-14k range flat peddled up n over the Cascades with 4-5000rpm grade braking comin down the other side.
Then one day it started acting up.
I never read about the issue much (company truck, didn’t care) but from a practical standpoint I’m 90% sure a new tq converter before it self destructed would have saved the trans without propagating more issues.
Hope this helps.

And the 4wd issue is likely unrelated (fortunately or unfortunately depending how you look at it).

Is your 02 an Alli or a 4L80? 100k miles maybe a bit more is a good/average lifespan for a 4L60/4L80.

The 1500 has a shudder/shake to it sitting at a light, but only sometimes. Shifting to neutral causes it to stop.

Transmission temperatures are pushing 190 just driving around, which is what's really bothering me. I never really paid attention before, but I can't remember it getting that hot, even towing.

The 02 is the Allison. 52,000 miles on it. Throwing P0700, P0843 and P0875 codes... All just say something amorphous about "low pressure" which is a "WELL DUH!" from me... It won't move!

Sorry to the OP for hijacking. I won't discuss further.

[blt2ski]

mkirsch wrote:
Keeping what you got isn't free.

I'm already off to a rip roaring start this year. Went to pull my trusty 2002 Silverado 3500 out of the barn, won't barely move. Bunch of transmission codes.

I think my 2015 Silverado 1500's torque converter is coming apart too. It's got the "shutter" that everyone posts about and it's right in that mileage range where the torque converters go bad. Just Saturday it started throwing a message "Service 4WD" and won't shift into 4x4.

A common issue at least in the 88+ ifs units, was for the 4wd electric part to engage the coupling will go out. Its been awhile since I have heard about this issue.....

Good Luck with this.

Marty

[Grit_dog]

blt2ski wrote:
cost of new vs used, assuming used is paid for, used can be perile more expensive than new, depending upon the what needs repairs. add in IF you use the rig for work, lost days of income etc. At one time it was best to get rid of working pickups in the 100-125k mile relm. today closer to 200k miles.
IF repairs start costing more per year tgan payments, better to get a new one.

marty

True. And if ya have an old car, ya oughta have 2! Keeps ya from missin work while you fix the other one. That’s how I grew up. 2 cheap cars or trucks always costs less than 1 new one, even if you drive one off a cliff….

[Grit_dog]

^Lol, I don’t think that’s a premium member perk!

[MFL]

Grit dog wrote:

MFL wrote:
^^Lol...reread what I wrote bud! I can't say it any simpler, you either get it, or you don't!

Stop yelling at me!! :B

Hahahaha

Ha, you'll be alright! :C

My arrows up didn't allow for privileged members that save their place. 🙂

[blt2ski]

cost of new vs used, assuming used is paid for, used can be perile more expensive than new, depending upon the what needs repairs. add in IF you use the rig for work, lost days of income etc. At one time it was best to get rid of working pickups in the 100-125k mile relm. today closer to 200k miles.
IF repairs start costing more per year tgan payments, better to get a new one.

marty

[Grit_dog]

But to mkirsch’s point, cost of running an old rig vs new is variable and things like luck, skill, ability and intuition all affect that cost benefit ratio.
If everyone was an ASE certified mechanic and took care of their vehicles there would be more old vehicles on the road. But many treat vehicles like a much simpler more reliable tool like a hammer. And just use it and use it and leave it out in the rain and miss judge what they’re hitting until the hammer handle just breaks in half.
Except your car costs as much as 1000 or 3000 hammers. But that doesn’t mean you can treat it 1000x worse and expect any good to come of it.

Not directed at mkirsch, but y’all know who you are or see it every day….

For those in this scenario, the cost of a new hammer rather than replacing the handle on the old one is probably the least obtrusive scenario.

[Grit_dog]

MFL wrote:
^^Lol...reread what I wrote bud! I can't say it any simpler, you either get it, or you don't!

Stop yelling at me!! :B

Hahahaha

[MFL]

^^Lol...reread what I wrote bud! I can't say it any simpler, you either get it, or you don't!

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:
Keeping what you got isn't free.

I'm already off to a rip roaring start this year. Went to pull my trusty 2002 Silverado 3500 out of the barn, won't barely move. Bunch of transmission codes.

I think my 2015 Silverado 1500's torque converter is coming apart too. It's got the "shutter" that everyone posts about and it's right in that mileage range where the torque converters go bad. Just Saturday it started throwing a message "Service 4WD" and won't shift into 4x4.

Find a good trans shop now if it just started the shudder. My 2016 (same truck/trans as yours) did that for the first 60k of its life before coming apart.
I took the truck in with a couple thousand miles on it and told the dealer the TQ converter had an issue. Of course “cannot replicate” was the finding. Mine only did it under high load from a stop. Of course you can’t replicate that by driving an empty truck around the block…lol.
I’m all but certain the “shudder “ didn’t do any damage downstream until something finally came apart. Like I said, did it since new, never got appreciably worse, truck was horse whipped pretty hard in that 60k miles. Like bumper pull trailers in the 10-14k range flat peddled up n over the Cascades with 4-5000rpm grade braking comin down the other side.
Then one day it started acting up.
I never read about the issue much (company truck, didn’t care) but from a practical standpoint I’m 90% sure a new tq converter before it self destructed would have saved the trans without propagating more issues.
Hope this helps.

And the 4wd issue is likely unrelated (fortunately or unfortunately depending how you look at it).

Is your 02 an Alli or a 4L80? 100k miles maybe a bit more is a good/average lifespan for a 4L60/4L80.

[valhalla360]

MFL wrote:
Hey Marty...from my experience, purchasing/shopping for several new FWs, the dry wts given are for the entire trailer, sitting on the scale, disconnected from truck. The dry pin wt is normally about 20% of this figure. So, if the entire dry wt of trailer is 5,500, the dry pin would be 1,100. Then fully loaded 7,000, sitting on the scale, truck disconnected/trailer only, would have 1,400 pin wt, when reconnected to truck.

This the reason some FWs with 10K gvwr only have 4,400 axles. Mine has 5,200 axles, but a 12,110 gvwr.

Jerry

GVWR is for the entire trailer not what sits on the axles. The axle rating plus hitch weight added together should equal or exceed the GVWR. You may or may not get lucky exceeding the GVWR.

With a 1400lb pin weight, not many 1/2 ton trucks will have the payload once you add in a hitch and a few people in the truck, plus anything else in the bed or bolted on after market (all of which count against the payload).

If you think you know better than the manufacturer, go for it but lots of folks have played that game and payed the price when they pay for the bigger truck or quit RVing because it's scary to drive an overloaded rig.

1/2 ton trucks are really much better suited to bumper pull where hitch weight should be 12-15% rather than the 20-25% of a 5th wheel.