Help Shopping: Half ton

[tragusa3]

History and background: I have a years experience towing my 3,000lbs dry TT throughout the Appalacians. I use my trusty Chevy with the 4.8liter / 3.42s. Back in 2003, we bought our first boat. At the time we had a Ford Ranger that couldn't possibly get the job done, so we shopped for a truck for towing at the time. The salesman steered us to the one we have. I wasn't educated on towing and didn't even know what gearing was. We've paid the price ever since. Don't get me wrong, the truck is capable, it just never did it with any "extra".

Aside from towing, we have LOVED this truck. Our biggest issue has been changing out the daytime running light bulb.

In the 11 years we've had it, life has changed. We now are a family of 4 and picked up the hobby of camping and travelling. I'm a school teacher and we have a goal of taking our boys on 3-4 long summer trips out West with the TT. This is where I believe our current truck is going to fail us. For one, 4 people in an extended cab. We'd live with that though if it towed better. I just don't think I've got enough truck for these long trips and the grades we'll come across out west.

I can currently climb anything in western North Carolina, but in 2nd gear at 3200rpm and 45mph.

The other concern we always fight is payload. When we load for local trips we always sag in the rear and from my rough calculations we're 4-500 pounds over. I'm 300lbs, wife is xxx, kids will each be 200lbs within the life of this new truck.

Upgrading TT? It is likely that we'll upgrade to something slightly larger, but we have a different philosophy than most. I truely don't see us ever considering anything heavier than 5,500lbs dry.

So, I'm not 100% stuck in the Chevy camp, but ours has been loyal enough to us that I'll stay loyal to Chevy unless there's a real reason not to be.

Our current truck has 270hp and 280torque. I don't know how to measure what's needed to make a significant change in my towing experience? The 5.3 liter of the last several years has seemed like a marginal improvement, but the new 2014 5.3 numbers are roughly 100 higher in hp and torque (355/387). 110 ft. lbs of torque tied to the new 6 speed transmission sounds like a leap beyond what we have. Is it?

A more specific question: I stopped at the dealership yesterday and found they had no 2014's on the lot, but were trying hard to push the 2013's they had. Even though invoice prices will remain the same, they claim that they can discount the 13's enough to give me a 9-10,000 incentive to take one.

Of course, that sounds interesting, but the 13's will not increase my hp and torque numbers as much (about half as much). Also, the fuel efficiency on the 14's is now 16/23, which would be nice for all the commuting I do the rest of the year.

Of course I'd like to save the money with a 13, but surely don't want to be disappointed like we have been with the 4.8/3.42. We'll keep this truck at least 10 years so I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish.

Considering a 3/4 ton with the 6.0? Don't get me wrong, it scratches the "man" itch alot better, but don't forget my trailer size. And, I tow for only half the miles I'll put on this truck, I'd feel wasteful to be driving that to work every day. The 2500 also starts to climb out of my budget, so I would have to go a few years older.

What would you do in my situation? Take a deal on a 13? Wait and spend more on the 14?

Sorry. Longwinded. That was a 2 cup of coffee post! 🙂

[APT]

tragusa3 wrote:
One thing that stands out to me is the value in used passenger vans. The E250/350 and Chevy 2500/3500 vans are priced much better than their truck counterparts. I'm seeing 2012 3500s with less than 20k miles for less than $20k. There's got to be a reason. What is it?

Small market. People do not want them. I don't know what happened first, but they are not equipped like the same generation passenger vehicles and SUVs. A base model SUV (Expy/Burb/Seq/Armada) had more equipment, more conveniences, and better designs than the higher trim levels of full sized vans. So they cost $10k less new than equivalent SUV and depreciate quicker than the SUVs used.

That does make them great values for larger families, new and especially used. The 3/4 and 1-ton models are great for towing and transporting people. If you accept the level of equipment, go for it!

I prefer driving and riding in vehicles with more equipment. 20k miles per year for each of my vehicles is a lot of time to enjoy them. To each his own!

[Dadoffourgirls]

tragusa3 wrote:
If buying new, I was feeling comfortable with a half ton HD payload and max tow. However, I'm now seeing what $20k will get me in the used market. I'm pretty sure I won't find a half ton on the used market equipped like I need. So, that means I move up to 3/4 and live with the lower fuel mileage.

One thing that stands out to me is the value in used passenger vans. The E250/350 and Chevy 2500/3500 vans are priced much better than their truck counterparts. I'm seeing 2012 3500s with less than 20k miles for less than $20k. There's got to be a reason. What is it?

The GM vans do not have as many comfort/convenience features as the trucks and SUVs. They also do not come in 4wd for 2500/3500, and the AWD 1500 has a tow rating of 6k.

When I drove a AWD 1500 Express for a week, I really missed a rear backup camera or park-assist. I know that many individuals vehicles do not have this feature, but all the current vehicles I have driven do have this feature, and I feel much safer when backing up.

I keep threatening to trade my 2500HD CC in for a Express 3500. I hear complaints about not being able to reach things in the bed of the truck, the tailgate is too high, etc.

[jerem0621]

Personally, I love vans. I too have noticed that you can get a newer can for a lot more money. We rented a 12 passenger Ford van a few weeks ago. We got a solid 16 on the interstate at 70 mph. I think the limiting factor is the trailer weight it's rated for. I think the 5.4 is 7-8k lbs.. The V10 model gets to 10k lbs.

Honestly, I think those numbers are low because of a few reasons. Most people who have a van will load it up with people and gear and then try to tow a trailer. But that is just me speculating.


I love vans and would own one in a heartbeat. You taxes and registration may be cheaper as well in a van.

Thanks

[tragusa3]

If buying new, I was feeling comfortable with a half ton HD payload and max tow. However, I'm now seeing what $20k will get me in the used market. I'm pretty sure I won't find a half ton on the used market equipped like I need. So, that means I move up to 3/4 and live with the lower fuel mileage.

One thing that stands out to me is the value in used passenger vans. The E250/350 and Chevy 2500/3500 vans are priced much better than their truck counterparts. I'm seeing 2012 3500s with less than 20k miles for less than $20k. There's got to be a reason. What is it?

[wkrp]

5 pages about what tragusa3 needs in a truck and no definitive answer. 3/4, 1/2, dually, gas, diesel, ecoboost, no ecoboost, etc. etc.

I know this won't score many points with many of you, but maybe tragusa3 should test drive a Tundra. IMHO

[tragusa3]

CK, maybe they are similar. I'm just can't put that much of our budget into a tow vehicle. But there are options. If I shop used at about the $20k mark, then the taxes and insurance (not to mention the note) all make more sense.

lee, with my current truck and trailer and in the Appalacians, the 4.8 works, and in most cases works well. If I don't upgrade trailer and we stayed on the east coast, I would have no need to upgrade. If that's your budget, I wouldn't shy from the 4.8, but I would make sure it had 3.78s. I have 3.42.

[lee4019]

I'm grateful for this thread. It looks like I will have close to the same trailer weight and will be towing in the same Appalacian Mtns. I have been researching the early chevy's with the 4.8l with 270hp and 280 ft-lbs torque. I think I'm going to focus on the 350ci or 351ci with 300+ hp and 300+ ft-lbs torque. Thank you again for the thread, lots of info here.

[CKNSLS]

tragusa3 wrote:
Looks like this might be a thread that ends as a dud... I made calls to insurance and the property tax office to make sure I wasn't jumping into any surprises. Insurance was no big difference. However, property tax is insane in South Carolina. I knew this, but didn't expect anything like what she quoted. She said it will be right at $1k/year for the truck I'm looking at. It stays there for 3 years, then gradually comes down. But it will still be over $500/year for the first 10 years!

As a matter of principal, I will not pay that much in property taxes for a vehicle.

So, I went out and washed and waxed my trusty steed. She's gonna have to be our workhorse for awhile longer. I'm very disappointed. But this forces us to make due, and that ain't all bad. We'll be screaming in 2nd gear up the Rockies, but we'll have pocket money to do all we care to. 🙂

Having just relocated from Southern California a year ago, I will share what it is like for vehicle fees there. I purchased my Silverado new in 2011. The total "registration" fees were $635.00. You pay a base fee on the purchase amount, and then trucks get a special "weight fee" and then in California all trucks must be registered as "commercial vehicles" regardless of what (use) they were purchased for. These fees go down a little bit each year.

So - your "property tax fees are not that much higher, especially if those are your total fees each year. But the cheapest option is to keep the truck you have.

[tragusa3]

Looks like this might be a thread that ends as a dud... I made calls to insurance and the property tax office to make sure I wasn't jumping into any surprises. Insurance was no big difference. However, property tax is insane in South Carolina. I knew this, but didn't expect anything like what she quoted. She said it will be right at $1k/year for the truck I'm looking at. It stays there for 3 years, then gradually comes down. But it will still be over $500/year for the first 10 years!

As a matter of principal, I will not pay that much in property taxes for a vehicle.

So, I went out and washed and waxed my trusty steed. She's gonna have to be our workhorse for awhile longer. I'm very disappointed. But this forces us to make due, and that ain't all bad. We'll be screaming in 2nd gear up the Rockies, but we'll have pocket money to do all we care to. 🙂

[sele]

EcoBullet wrote:

jerem0621 wrote:


So, what did we do, sold the sweet and capable half ton, for our current F350 Dually. I have done everything in my power to enjoy this truck but the simple matter of the fact is that I don't. I don't hate it. Its just doesn't fit my usage and its flat uncomfortable. Since I live in the Rural Country to get to the "Big City" is a 45 minute drive. In other words, it cost me $30-40 in fuel just to take it into town. ...once!!!

We camp LESS now, mostly because of fuel. My F150 was a daily driver, this F350 is not. Its an uncomfortable dedicated tow vehicle that mostly sits in the yard with about $20.00 in gas sitting in the tank. I now have a DD and a Dedicated Tow Vehicle to maintain and fuel. Being a growing family those two vehicles really cut into the camping budget.

If I had to do it again, I would have simply bought a newer F150 Super Crew with the Max tow package. Would it be maxed out? Maybe, I am not 100% sure. But for the 98% of the time I don't tow it would have been Perfect. For the other 2% it would have been adequate and capable

Yes, pulling the trailer with the dually is nice, but I still have to pay attention to the details, I still have to mind the hitch, break control, air pressure (which is a pain now with a dually)

Jeremiah

I appreciate your saying this Jeremiah. It reinforces my choice in trucks. Like many, even though I like to travel, I drive a lot more miles for day to day driving.

x2 we have towed right at 500 miles so far with no issue through the ozarks and in a driving rain twice. once into the flat lands of illinois it towed 90% of the time in 6th gear. we have a payload of 1957,of the 20,000 miles driven maybe 3,000 to 4,000 will be towing. Good luck with your decision, so far we are happy with ours

[EcoBullet]

jerem0621 wrote:


So, what did we do, sold the sweet and capable half ton, for our current F350 Dually. I have done everything in my power to enjoy this truck but the simple matter of the fact is that I don't. I don't hate it. Its just doesn't fit my usage and its flat uncomfortable. Since I live in the Rural Country to get to the "Big City" is a 45 minute drive. In other words, it cost me $30-40 in fuel just to take it into town. ...once!!!

We camp LESS now, mostly because of fuel. My F150 was a daily driver, this F350 is not. Its an uncomfortable dedicated tow vehicle that mostly sits in the yard with about $20.00 in gas sitting in the tank. I now have a DD and a Dedicated Tow Vehicle to maintain and fuel. Being a growing family those two vehicles really cut into the camping budget.

If I had to do it again, I would have simply bought a newer F150 Super Crew with the Max tow package. Would it be maxed out? Maybe, I am not 100% sure. But for the 98% of the time I don't tow it would have been Perfect. For the other 2% it would have been adequate and capable

Yes, pulling the trailer with the dually is nice, but I still have to pay attention to the details, I still have to mind the hitch, break control, air pressure (which is a pain now with a dually)

Jeremiah

I appreciate your saying this Jeremiah. It reinforces my choice in trucks. Like many, even though I like to travel, I drive a lot more miles for day to day driving.

[tragusa3]

Jeremiah, thanks so much for sharing your opinion. Your situation is one that I want to avoid in several ways. Camping and being together as a family is more important to us than any of the needs or wants I have in a truck or trailer. The fact is, our current truck would make any of the trips we have in mind. Sure, it will scream up and down the mountains...but it will make it. I'd rather work the old girl hard and have the money to enjoy ourselves on trips than to be riding in a beautiful truck and eating rice and beans. I'm keenly aware of this careful balance that we all must make.

I was putting my two boys to sleep, we said our prayers and then I asked what they thought of that new Ford truck. They both said, "it's nice but we would miss Chevy too much". Hahaha, out of the mouths of babes. They really give some perspective.

[jerem0621]

OP.. My Dually V10 gets 9-10 mpg mixed driving. Maybe 11 if I behave 100% (never let the tach get over 2000 rpm.) Towing is 7-7.5, with one tank getting 8.5 and I am not sure how that happened.

The reports of the new 6.2 are a bit better than that.

My perspective and situation is a little different. I had a NICE (as in cream puff sweet) 1997 F150 extended cab XLT 2wd. It was my daily driver and I really enjoyed that truck. (My favorite vehicle ever) It handled my current trailer very well (that old 1997 had a 5.4, 330 lb ft of torque and a 4 speed auto transmission, 3:55 limited slip) The boys outgrew the extended cab so we "upgraded". We camped all the time.

Thought we were going to be upgrading to a bigger trailer. (You know, the 10,000-12,000 lb fiver thing) and we needed a crew cab for the kids. Our trailer has a GVWR of 7700 lbs, but fully loaded for camping we are at 6500 lbs. Dry weight is right at 5000 lbs. I am not sure how I can get 1200 more lbs in it. Now we know what we would buy and what we want in a TT. The dream trailer has got a GVWR around 8500 lbs, quad bunk with a super slide. I am not so sure that all travel trailers run around at their GVWR. But that is for a different thread.

So, what did we do, sold the sweet and capable half ton, for our current F350 Dually. I have done everything in my power to enjoy this truck but the simple matter of the fact is that I don't. I don't hate it. Its just doesn't fit my usage and its flat uncomfortable. Since I live in the Rural Country to get to the "Big City" is a 45 minute drive. In other words, it cost me $30-40 in fuel just to take it into town. ...once!!!

We camp LESS now, mostly because of fuel. My F150 was a daily driver, this F350 is not. Its an uncomfortable dedicated tow vehicle that mostly sits in the yard with about $20.00 in gas sitting in the tank. I now have a DD and a Dedicated Tow Vehicle to maintain and fuel. Being a growing family those two vehicles really cut into the camping budget.

If I had to do it again, I would have simply bought a newer F150 Super Crew with the Max tow package. Would it be maxed out? Maybe, I am not 100% sure. But for the 98% of the time I don't tow it would have been Perfect. For the other 2% it would have been adequate and capable

What I am saying is be careful, consider EVERYTHING. (and it sounds like you are doing a great job of that)

Yes, pulling the trailer with the dually is nice, but I still have to pay attention to the details, I still have to mind the hitch, break control, air pressure (which is a pain now with a dually)

Yes, the F350 and the Town Car are probably going up for sale in the near future 😉

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[mhsmith]

tragusa3 wrote:
Very interesting and makes sense. I wonder if the reduced boost at break in can be verified anywhere?

Between that, the "learning" transmission and the taller rear end, it could all certainly add up to my impression.

I was told by the dealer and read on an Ecoboost forum about some of the "needs" when I was doing my research. If you purchase one, you will find yourself learning to drive all over again to get the mileage out of it.

After a few times of "testing" it out:)