Increasing Tongue Weight on Nissan NV3500 (or in general)

[ElementZero]

So I have a Nissan NV 3500 SV (Passenger). The towing capacity on this van is 8700 and the maximum tongue weight is 870. I'm concerned about that tongue weight rating simply because lets say I theoretically put the trailer at 8700 lbs then the tongue could only do 870 with is only 10% of the load and lets say I want to have it be more at like 13% of the load on the tongue just to be safe with braking and stuff.

Now the question is I've seen this

Curt 14000 Class 4 Receiver Hitch

which says it matches the NV 3500. That has a tow rating of 10000 and tongue weight rating of 1000. Obviously I know I can't tow more with that hitch (making the 10k tow rating irrelevant), but if I use that I can increase the tongue weight maximum past what the factory hitch allows correct? Is that safe or is there something I'm not aware of?

Thanks for any help!

[brulaz]

john&bet wrote:
I can only guess Cummins must have upgraded the hitch on thier NV3500 test mules pulling a concrete ballast loaded trailer while testing the 5.0L diesel. Yip I saw them running around Columbus.

Really?

They're putting the Cummins 5L in the NV3500 as well as the Titan?

Makes sense, but I've nver heard them announce it.

[john_bet]

I can only guess Cummins must have upgraded the hitch on thier NV3500 test mules pulling a concrete ballast loaded trailer while testing the 5.0L diesel. Yip I saw them running around Columbus.

[brulaz]

I would just bolt that Curt C14000 Hitch Receiver on there.
It's rated for 1200# TW with a WDH.
You've got lots of payload, and its a 3500 class Van, your GAWR must be right up there.

[Heavy_Metal_Doc]

ElementZero wrote:
Yeah I have the 2014 NV 3500 SL but I can't see the 1000 (or anything for that matter) stamped on the hitch, just that sticker that says look at the manual. I'm not sure if you have a 2013 one (since you talk about downshifting in the pm whereas I would just put on the tow mode) and it used to be stamped on there and now it's not? I also didn't see it listed on the towing package for 1000 - do you have a link (not that I don't believe you but would like to show it to a Nissan guy when I call them so they can't just brush me off - I tried calling them yesterday but just tossed around between sales and the mechanics haha).

And no, they don't have a different listing for non-WD and WD in the manual, something I thought was interesting as well since all the other third-party hitches I could put on the van have that distinction.

I really think Nissan just might be being super conservative and/or taking the easy route by just setting the tongue weight to 10% of the max tow power which should force you into never going past the max towing capacity for multiple reasons *shrugs*.

Yeah, like I said, it's kinda ridiculous / confusing.
Right of the Nissan website for the SL HD package in addition to the SV version ( info trimmed down for space) note upgrade class IV hitch listed:

"Standard towing equipment with 8,700 lb towing capacity

5.6L DOHC 32 Valve V8 Engine
3.54:1 Axle Ratio
Extendable Outside Chrome Tow Mirrors w/ Heat
Front (2) Tow Hooks w/ Tow Mode AT
Class-IV Receiver Hitch
7-Pin Connector Pre-Wiring
Brake Controller Pre-Wiring"


The difference between class 3 and class 4 hitch is really just the addition of bolts securing the center section to the bumper. Class 3 doesn't have those bolts. You can see the mount points to each side of the receiver opening in the hitch you posted in that link earlier.

The manual does talk about calculating tongue load and states to keep it at 10 to 15 % of trailer weight. They go into great detail about how much weight is inside the van and not exceeding the axle weight rating and gives numbers which I think does assume you will carry a good bit inside the van.
I know I found the 1000lb max rating with WDH setup somewhere when I started with my NV because I was also very concerned that I didn't want to overwork the van or tow unsafely, but I can't remember where it was or find the info now.


So yeah, I think they are rating it conservatively. Especially when you compare it to the cargo van version with a payload of nearly 4K lbs / tow 9500, versus the passenger version of 2460 payload and tow 8700.
I know there's 1500 pounds of interior / trim and so on added to the passenger version (although I think those two rear seats saved me 300 pounds by removing them), but the 10 to 15 % tongue load on a cargo van would still be 1000lbs tongue weight, so it's not like it will break the frame in half to go over that 870 tongue weight they list for the passenger version. You just have to watch out for your axle weight.

And I do tow in tow mode - it still shifts through all the gears, just times it differently so you will downshift a gear climbing a hill, but it holds highway speed just fine and has the power to accelerate if need be, even with 7 or 8 K lbs of "house" behind it.
Tow mode also gives you engine braking (startled me the first time that happened - but now I have learned to use it).

I also didn't bother asking the Nissan dealer since towing is not generally thier thing. Nor did trust the RV dealer when they looked up the cargo van specs and said "9500 lbs - you'll be fine - buy this TT!". But I did ask around and checked out a few vans through work (customer work vans and they are very happy with them) and took a bit of a chance it'd be ok when we decided to buy an NV.

[ElementZero]

Yeah I have the 2014 NV 3500 SL but I can't see the 1000 (or anything for that matter) stamped on the hitch, just that sticker that says look at the manual. I'm not sure if you have a 2013 one (since you talk about downshifting in the pm whereas I would just put on the tow mode) and it used to be stamped on there and now it's not? I also didn't see it listed on the towing package for 1000 - do you have a link (not that I don't believe you but would like to show it to a Nissan guy when I call them so they can't just brush me off - I tried calling them yesterday but just tossed around between sales and the mechanics haha).

And no, they don't have a different listing for non-WD and WD in the manual, something I thought was interesting as well since all the other third-party hitches I could put on the van have that distinction.

I really think Nissan just might be being super conservative and/or taking the easy route by just setting the tongue weight to 10% of the max tow power which should force you into never going past the max towing capacity for multiple reasons *shrugs*.

[Heavy_Metal_Doc]

To the OP, After our PM exchange, I came looking for the discussion to give more detail.

The info on the NV is a bit confusing, I learned that first hand when we bought ours.

One of these days I want to get the whole setup to a scale and get the actual weights, but I'm comfortable with it.

Unfortunately, the SV version does not have the best equipment for towing in the upper weight ranges. The weight limits are the same on the van, but the list of standard features on the SL make towing better: standard V8, different axle ratio (a big key point, IMO), receiver hitch is rated for 1000lbs tongue weight (with weight dist, of course, and not listed in the regular owners manual). In an SV model, I think I'd try very hard to stay within the listed weights, especially if it's V6 powered.

We shopped for a TT in the 6500lb dry weight range, knowing we'd add another 1k in gear. We ended up MAYBE pushing right at 8K fully loaded / ready to camp for a week at the heaviest. We don't usually haul too heavy on household goods / personal gear as our kids are grown and someone usually drives a car from another location with more of that stuff of their own.

The tongue weight issue is a slight problem - they list 1000 on the hitch and even state that for the HD towing package, but then say 870 on the van inside the owners manual. Well which is it? I took the entire picture into account for my setup: We don't need all the seats since we never travel with more than 6 of us (usually only 3 or 4 and a dog), so I pulled out the last row of seats (and they weigh a lot). We pack some supplies and luggage in the van and a canoe on the roof, but not packed to gills - lots of stuff goes in the camper for ease of use. I'd guess even with tongue weight being about 80 pounds over (have a tongue scale and weighed it @ 950 -- but still under the hitches rating), we are way under the rated capacity of the van with about 500 lbs to spare. The suspension doesn't squat but about an inch when I hitch up, before snapping up the WD bars, and all tires have the same look to them - not overly squashed in the rear.
I believe Nissan set the ratings conservatively to account for the maximums - the people who will load 12 people in it and 1000 pounds of luggage inside and THEN hitch up a TT that's the heaviest they think they can get away with towing.

Again, My big concern for an SV model would be power train - it's gonna work harder pulling a big load without the other axle ratio and even worse if it's a V-6 engine. I'm also unsure of trans cooler equipped or not on a SV.

[brulaz]

If the NV3500 is anything like the HD pickups out there, that 870# is simply the max tongue weight for the hitch receiver. People frequently replace their hitche receivers on these pickups with higher rated ones.

Maybe I missed it, but is there no mention of a WDH versus non-WDH rating? Is the 870# for a non-WDH? If so, they usually can carry much more when used with a WDH.

[APT]

Nissan may have a better answer. It does seem like the limit is the receiver, giving all the other specifications of that van.

The 2007-2014 GM full sized SUVs (Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon/XL) list different (higher) ratings in the owners manual than the receiver which is not replaceable. If aftermarket offered more capable receivers, the vehicle could otherwise handle it. There just are no aftermarket receivers for them. There may be a chance with the NV3500 since there are more capable receivers.

[carringb]

Only Nissan can answer that question. I believe they have a similar limit on their pickups. There may indeed by a structural limitation present.

I do agree with your mechanic that removing the seats will effectively increase your tow rating.

[ElementZero]

ktosv wrote:
Did the van come with a hitch from the factory? Is the 870# also what is printed/stamped on the hitch?

Have you called Nissan to see what they say? If the hitch is rated at 870#, that might be why they put it in the manual. But, with it being in the manual there is no way to know if there is really some other reason why you couldn't put a higher capacity hitch on your van and have a higher tongue weight.

There is nothing stamped on the hitch (I just looked all over it) - there is just a sticker that says "Refer to vehicle manual for towing capacities".

As far as talking to Nissan - I did talk to a the head mechanic at my Nissan dealership about why the cargo van was different, but not about the hitch and the tongue weight. For those interested the cargo van weighs something like ~5950 lbs or something while the passenger weights ~6680 (just doing these from memory). The extra weight is from the seats (which - trust me - weigh A LOT and there is LOTS of them) and the trim and windows and stuff. From what the mechanic said the frame, engine, gear ratio, etc. is all the same between the cargo and the passenger (which you can actually confirm on Nissan's site - nothing about suspension though as stated earlier) but the weight difference of 700 lbs is why they subtract 800 lbs off the towing capacity of the passenger. He actually told me if I was to remove all the seats that I should theoretically get 8700 + whatever the seats weighed as towing capacity.

Now - I'm not 100% sure the guy knew what he was talking about (though he did say he was the head mechanic at the dealership so...not sure who to trust past that) and I don't really intend to go over the 8700 lbs anyways (besides I don't think I can remove any seats - I have 6 kids haha) but was interesting nonetheless. The only part that really interests me about all that is that the tongue weight capacity on the cargo is 950 *shrugs*.

I guess I will call them and ask about the hitch and the rating. That's why I started this post - wasn't sure if the hitch was limitation or if it was the actual vehicle and given some oddities around all the numbers I was starting to think it was the actual hitch that was the limitation, not the van - but didn't know if I was off my rocker haha 🙂

Like I said - I just wanted to see if I could get the tongue rating higher for safety sake - perhaps I'm anal.

[ktosv]

Did the van come with a hitch from the factory? Is the 870# also what is printed/stamped on the hitch?

Have you called Nissan to see what they say? If the hitch is rated at 870#, that might be why they put it in the manual. But, with it being in the manual there is no way to know if there is really some other reason why you couldn't put a higher capacity hitch on your van and have a higher tongue weight.

[ElementZero]

coolmom42 wrote:

Towing capacity of your vehicle is listed at 8700 lb with the addition of a class IV receiver. If you look for a trailer no more than 80% of that, about 7000 lb, (a good guideline) your tongue weight of the empty trailer will be 700-1000 lb, plus add another 100 lb or so of tongue weight for contents of the trailer. So at 1100 lb tongue weight MAX you will have 1300 lb of cargo capacity left for people and stuff.

This is where I get confused though. See the attached pic I took from the instruction book (I highlighted the part I'm concerned about). You said above that I would have 1100 tongue weight, but according to that instruction book I can only have 870...? is that incorrect?

[Lantley]

coolmom42 wrote:
I've never seen a vehicle spec that listed tongue weight. Are you sure you are reading that right?

The tongue weight of your trailer is part of the cargo of the vehicle. So your vehicle cargo weight less the tongue weight of the trailer, has to leave room for people and other stuff.

The cargo van probably has a stiffer suspension than the passenger van, thus the higher towing capacity. Towing capacity is not the same as pulling power!

The tongue weight of the trailer will depend on how much you put in it, and how the contents are arranged. Any water you carry is part of the trailer cargo, too. The only reliable way to get an accurate tongue weight is to weigh the trailer as loaded.

For good towing characteristics, the trailer should be loaded so that the tongue weight is 10-15% of the total trailer weight. And most of the time that's achieved with a little common sense. Don't put your heaviest stuff in the back of the trailer.

I'm looking at the NV3500 passenger specs here.

Your vehicle is listed with 2460 lb payload. The tongue weight of the trailer is part of that payload.

Towing capacity of your vehicle is listed at 8700 lb with the addition of a class IV receiver. If you look for a trailer no more than 80% of that, about 7000 lb, (a good guideline) your tongue weight of the empty trailer will be 700-1000 lb, plus add another 100 lb or so of tongue weight for contents of the trailer. So at 1100 lb tongue weight MAX you will have 1300 lb of cargo capacity left for people and stuff.

You should be able to find a nice trailer in the 5000 lb range, and that's what I would stick with in your shoes. You will also want a good weight distributing hitch like an Equalizer. Don't push the limits of your vehicle and you will be much happier.

I referred to the 870 as the TW however It should be properly called the hitch rating. All vehicles have a hitch rating. The hitch rating is another towing parameter in addition to the GVWR that must be considered in the overall scheme.

[coolmom42]

I've never seen a vehicle spec that listed tongue weight. Are you sure you are reading that right?

The tongue weight of your trailer is part of the cargo of the vehicle. So your vehicle cargo weight less the tongue weight of the trailer, has to leave room for people and other stuff.

The cargo van probably has a stiffer suspension than the passenger van, thus the higher towing capacity. Towing capacity is not the same as pulling power!

The tongue weight of the trailer will depend on how much you put in it, and how the contents are arranged. Any water you carry is part of the trailer cargo, too. The only reliable way to get an accurate tongue weight is to weigh the trailer as loaded.

For good towing characteristics, the trailer should be loaded so that the tongue weight is 10-15% of the total trailer weight. And most of the time that's achieved with a little common sense. Don't put your heaviest stuff in the back of the trailer.

I'm looking at the NV3500 passenger specs here.

Your vehicle is listed with 2460 lb payload. The tongue weight of the trailer is part of that payload.

Towing capacity of your vehicle is listed at 8700 lb with the addition of a class IV receiver. If you look for a trailer no more than 80% of that, about 7000 lb, (a good guideline) your tongue weight of the empty trailer will be 700-1000 lb, plus add another 100 lb or so of tongue weight for contents of the trailer. So at 1100 lb tongue weight MAX you will have 1300 lb of cargo capacity left for people and stuff.

You should be able to find a nice trailer in the 5000 lb range, and that's what I would stick with in your shoes. You will also want a good weight distributing hitch like an Equalizer. Don't push the limits of your vehicle and you will be much happier.

[ElementZero]

So just one more question - is the tongue weight always 10% of the maximum towing capacity? I just ask because on the Passenger NV3500 the towing capacity is 8700 and the tongue weight capacity it 870 but on he NV3500 cargo I saw that the towing capacity is 9500 and the tongue capacity is 950. Just wondering for the sake of knowing.

Thanks for the insight!