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is running exhaust brake all the time ok?

way2roll
Navigator II
Navigator II
In my new F350 with the 6.7 I like to run the exhaust brake even when not towing. I find it helps in stop and go traffic and requires me to use less brakes. But is it OK to run it all the time? I mean it's just pressure with no real moving parts right? I've read several forums that have differing opinions, but majority says there is no harm in running it all the time.

Jeff - 2023 FR Sunseeker 2400B MBS
61 REPLIES 61

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
^ I would agree.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

4x4ord
Explorer III
Explorer III
Grit dog wrote:
4x4ord wrote:
ford truck guy wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
Jim-Linda wrote:
Have EB on Cat in FL60. Rig is 25 years old. It has BD exhaust brake that is turned off only on downhills in rolling country, EB will engage when not needed. The only drawback I can see is in city type traffic when EB engages, following vehicles are not aware of truck slowing due to no Brake light. No failures, original disk pads.


But it is a nice feature to get tailgators to back off!

Separate note, I've never checked, but the newer OEM integrated exhaust brakes, do they activate the brake lights when they kick in?
Under the right conditions one can scrub some speed pretty quickly without touching the service brakes.


I looked behind the truck when hooked to the fiver during the last night tow and did NOT see any brake lights on the truck... I can see them light up the front of the fiver compartment door.

That is always my concern as well... I kind of like my rear cap in 1, solid piece



Wihen towing heavy down a steep grade the Ford service brakes come on, if needed, to hold the speed back when cruise control is set. Without cruise set the wheel brakes will be applied at the engine red line to slow the engine down some before automatically releasing. So without cruise control set the computer does what an attentive driver should do. Additionally the Ford system uses the time the brakes are applied and the brake application pressure to calculate an approximate brake temperature. If required a warning will be flashed up to inform the driver of potentially hot brakes.


No kidding? On one hand that is a seriously impressive highly integrated system. Is that all models or trim levels? Do they all have active collision avoidance now? Or do they have a similar system just for the towing function as you described it?

The practical side of me is having trouble accepting that this is a good thing, making vehicle systems even more complicated and allowing even more stupid human trucks to not have the expected affect!


Only trucks equipped with adaptive cruise apply the service brakes to prevent gaining much speed on a down hill running on cruise control. The computer automatically applies the brakes which, when necessary, initiates downshifting of the transmission. Relying on this system when towing a heavy trailer is not very reliable …. the response time is too long. Interestingly, trucks equipped with ACC will manually apply the brakes even when running with ACC off …. ie while using regular cruise control the service brakes are still applied. I often press cancel on the CC to allow my truck to coast down hills.

Whether the feature that applies the brakes to prevent over revving of the engine works on all trucks or not I don’t know. It works very well….. it brakes (including the trailer brakes) hard enough to slow the rig down a bit, then the brakes are released and if the load is heavy and the grade is steep enough the engine rpm will once again start to climb. My guess is that this feature encourages some people, towing very heavy, to go down grades a gear faster than they should.
2023 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
B&W Companion
2008 Citation Platinum XL 34.5

JIMNLIN
Explorer
Explorer
When the new 6.7 Cummins came out in our Dodge trucks, Cummins had a video of how the new fixed vane with a sliding nozzle turbo works in slow motion on the 6.7 engine.
Cummins gave the turbo exhaust braking around 230 hp vs 180 braking hp for my '03 5.9/Jacobs (post turbo) exhaust brake.
The newer gen 6.7 turbo brake may have even more exhaust braking performance.
My '03 truck has 365+ miles on the odo and the Jacobs has work fine with the NV5600 6 speed manual. The Jacobs came with a T handle that mounts on the side of the gear shifter at the top. My hand sits on the shift knob with the first two fingers pulling the EB on...or off.
The truck is 19 years old and I'm still amazed what it can pull easily and gets great mpgs with very little maintenance.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
4x4ord wrote:
ford truck guy wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
Jim-Linda wrote:
Have EB on Cat in FL60. Rig is 25 years old. It has BD exhaust brake that is turned off only on downhills in rolling country, EB will engage when not needed. The only drawback I can see is in city type traffic when EB engages, following vehicles are not aware of truck slowing due to no Brake light. No failures, original disk pads.


But it is a nice feature to get tailgators to back off!

Separate note, I've never checked, but the newer OEM integrated exhaust brakes, do they activate the brake lights when they kick in?
Under the right conditions one can scrub some speed pretty quickly without touching the service brakes.


I looked behind the truck when hooked to the fiver during the last night tow and did NOT see any brake lights on the truck... I can see them light up the front of the fiver compartment door.

That is always my concern as well... I kind of like my rear cap in 1, solid piece



Wihen towing heavy down a steep grade the Ford service brakes come on, if needed, to hold the speed back when cruise control is set. Without cruise set the wheel brakes will be applied at the engine red line to slow the engine down some before automatically releasing. So without cruise control set the computer does what an attentive driver should do. Additionally the Ford system uses the time the brakes are applied and the brake application pressure to calculate an approximate brake temperature. If required a warning will be flashed up to inform the driver of potentially hot brakes.


No kidding? On one hand that is a seriously impressive highly integrated system. Is that all models or trim levels? Do they all have active collision avoidance now? Or do they have a similar system just for the towing function as you described it?

The practical side of me is having trouble accepting that this is a good thing, making vehicle systems even more complicated and allowing even more stupid human trucks to not have the expected affect!
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
SweetLou wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
SweetLou wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
No Idea on a Ford. On my 11 and now 15 RAM every single start I hit the Tow Haul and Exhaust Brake buttons.

I did that too thinking it helps with the longevity of the exhaust brake. My actuator went out at 90K this year.


Mine went out early also but that Has nothing to do with the mechanics of the turbo.

no but everything to do with the brake


No, not really. The actuator moves the vanes. Both for brake function and boost functions. Same parts different position depending on function.
Keeping the exh brake engaged is an attempt to keep the mechanism that moves the vanes from sooting up and becoming stuck.
The actuator is the electro mechanical part that pushes and pulls the vanes. Theoretically it would last longer if exhaust brake not used as it wouldn’t cycle as many times or through as much range of motion.
In reality, the actuators sometimes fail at lower than expected hours.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
blofgren wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
blofgren wrote:
cummins2014 wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Don't think the above applies to the RAM. Anyone know for a fact?



I sure haven't heard anything about brakes being applied along with the exhaust brake on the Rams .


Me neither. And I pretty much guarantee it doesn’t happen with my G56 manual! :B. I think the guys in the other brands don’t really realize how well the Cummins EB works.


When towing HEAVY as I do it’s smart to understand the benefits of manually selecting the proper gear along with using cruise control.

Anyone thinking they can hit auto EB and control 36k down a long 6% grade will have a rude awakening.


Absolutely; being in the right gear is key with the manual trans too.


So true! I select mine to has close to 3k as I can when descending those long steep grades. Simply a pleasure to feel total control instead of white knuckle!!!

Basically I am treating my auto as a manual trans. Select gear, set Cruise and use the up/down to control speed.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

blofgren
Explorer
Explorer
Cummins12V98 wrote:
blofgren wrote:
cummins2014 wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Don't think the above applies to the RAM. Anyone know for a fact?



I sure haven't heard anything about brakes being applied along with the exhaust brake on the Rams .


Me neither. And I pretty much guarantee it doesn’t happen with my G56 manual! :B. I think the guys in the other brands don’t really realize how well the Cummins EB works.


When towing HEAVY as I do it’s smart to understand the benefits of manually selecting the proper gear along with using cruise control.

Anyone thinking they can hit auto EB and control 36k down a long 6% grade will have a rude awakening.


Absolutely; being in the right gear is key with the manual trans too.
2013 Ram 3500 Megacab DRW Laramie 4x4, 6.7L Cummins, G56, 3.73, Maximum Steel, black lthr, B&W RVK3670 hitch, Retrax, Linex, and a bunch of options incl. cargo camera
2008 Corsair Excella Platinum 34.5 CKTS fifth wheel with winter package & disc brakes

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
Actuator failure has nothing to do with use or non use of the EB.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
blofgren wrote:
cummins2014 wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Don't think the above applies to the RAM. Anyone know for a fact?



I sure haven't heard anything about brakes being applied along with the exhaust brake on the Rams .


Me neither. And I pretty much guarantee it doesn’t happen with my G56 manual! :B. I think the guys in the other brands don’t really realize how well the Cummins EB works.


When towing HEAVY as I do it’s smart to understand the benefits of manually selecting the proper gear along with using cruise control.

Anyone thinking they can hit auto EB and control 36k down a long 6% grade will have a rude awakening.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

NRALIFR
Explorer
Explorer
All variable geometry turbos have movable “nozzle vanes” on the exhaust, or hot side of the turbo. They also all have some mechanical means of moving them in sync with each other, typically a unison ring. They all use one of several types of actuators to move the ring; vacuum, electrical, hydraulic.

This is a view of the Holset VGT turbo used on the Cummins 6.7 L. The movable nozzle vanes are around the outer circumference. Because the VGT nozzle vanes are on the exhaust side, they all are subject to carbon fouling, and can bind or become stuck. Changes to the ECM software have made this less common, but have not eliminated it.



This is a generic drawing of a VGT, showing both the hot and cold sides, and a vacuum actuator for the nozzle vanes. I like this drawing because it shows the nozzle vanes in different positions. The nozzle vanes primary purpose is to make the turbo more responsive at various speeds. On Diesel engines, they can also be driven closed by the ECM to act as an exhaust brake.



PS- All of the nozzle actuator types are external to the turbo, so not in the exhaust stream. Each type tends to have their own strengths and weaknesses, and common failure points. Electronic actuators, like on the Holset VGT, tend to fail without much warning or apparent reason. It would take an engineering tear-down and analysis to determine the root cause of early life failures of an electronic actuator. But I would bet that the root cause would NOT be because you either did or did not engage the exhaust brake at every engine start.

:):)
2001 Lance 1121 on a 2016 F450 ‘Scuse me while I whinge.
And for all you Scooby-Doo and Yosemite Sam types………..Let’s Go Brandon!!!

SweetLou
Explorer
Explorer
rhagfo wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
SweetLou wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
No Idea on a Ford. On my 11 and now 15 RAM every single start I hit the Tow Haul and Exhaust Brake buttons.

I did that too thinking it helps with the longevity of the exhaust brake. My actuator went out at 90K this year.


Your actuator went out, but the vanes didn’t clog up and stick, correct?
2 different things.
I never believed that a vgt needed to run the exhaust brake as the vanes are basically constantly moving anyway. However I was corrected and it makes sense.
When accelerating, the vanes range of motion is much less as they never “close down” to choke off the exhaust. Whereas the exh brake moves the vanes through the rest of their total range of motion because it reduces the % open much more than a base line, no boost condition.


Ram doesn’t use the vanes, it has a sliding ring that creates the back pressure.

Then I stand corrected
2013 3500 Cummins 6.7 Quadcab 4x4 3.73 68FE Trans, 2007 HitchHiker Discover America 329 RSB
We love our Westie

blofgren
Explorer
Explorer
cummins2014 wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Don't think the above applies to the RAM. Anyone know for a fact?



I sure haven't heard anything about brakes being applied along with the exhaust brake on the Rams .


Me neither. And I pretty much guarantee it doesn’t happen with my G56 manual! :B. I think the guys in the other brands don’t really realize how well the Cummins EB works.
2013 Ram 3500 Megacab DRW Laramie 4x4, 6.7L Cummins, G56, 3.73, Maximum Steel, black lthr, B&W RVK3670 hitch, Retrax, Linex, and a bunch of options incl. cargo camera
2008 Corsair Excella Platinum 34.5 CKTS fifth wheel with winter package & disc brakes

rhagfo
Explorer III
Explorer III
Grit dog wrote:
SweetLou wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
No Idea on a Ford. On my 11 and now 15 RAM every single start I hit the Tow Haul and Exhaust Brake buttons.

I did that too thinking it helps with the longevity of the exhaust brake. My actuator went out at 90K this year.


Your actuator went out, but the vanes didn’t clog up and stick, correct?
2 different things.
I never believed that a vgt needed to run the exhaust brake as the vanes are basically constantly moving anyway. However I was corrected and it makes sense.
When accelerating, the vanes range of motion is much less as they never “close down” to choke off the exhaust. Whereas the exh brake moves the vanes through the rest of their total range of motion because it reduces the % open much more than a base line, no boost condition.


Ram doesn’t use the vanes, it has a sliding ring that creates the back pressure.
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"

SweetLou
Explorer
Explorer
Cummins12V98 wrote:
SweetLou wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
No Idea on a Ford. On my 11 and now 15 RAM every single start I hit the Tow Haul and Exhaust Brake buttons.

I did that too thinking it helps with the longevity of the exhaust brake. My actuator went out at 90K this year.


Mine went out early also but that Has nothing to do with the mechanics of the turbo.

no but everything to do with the brake
2013 3500 Cummins 6.7 Quadcab 4x4 3.73 68FE Trans, 2007 HitchHiker Discover America 329 RSB
We love our Westie