looking at an ecoboost couple of questions

[riven1950]

I am looking at a 2013 f150 ecoboost. For those that may already have one I have a couple of questions.

1- Some trucks have a 3.31 electronic locking rear axle, others have a 3.31 regular axle. Other than cost ( 420.00 ) what is the difference and would it matter towing? The one I am most interested in actually has the electronic locking rear axle.

2-What kind of mileage do you get when not towing ( city / highway / combo )?

I know towing mileage will likely not be good even though I would only be towing about 4000lbs, it is still a box holding me back.

Was real impressed with the power vs the v8.

thanks in advance

[CND_SuperCrew]

Here you are:

Clicky

Fuelly has no app as of yet, only the web page which my phone is capable of accessing.

[riven1950]

shadows4...lol

still trying to figure how to post a pic directly from flicker, but here is a link to my new truck pic...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/riven1950/11275588475/

[shadows4]

riven1950 wrote:
Thanks for all the info folks. I ended up buying a 2013 XLT SCREW 4x4 with a 3.55RE Electric locking RE Ecoboost, also has the off road pkg, although I have yet to figure out exactly what that is other then skid plates to protect the hardware. If anyone knows please share with me. The pkg was already on the truck and I really did not pursue the details with the salesman.

I decided against the 3.31RE. Did not have the option of a 3.73 in the F150's I looked at. I figure the 3.55 is pretty close and will do great for my needs ( 4000lb TT loaded ) Will be a big improvement over the 4.6l v8.

CND Supercrew: Thats a pretty nice fuel program. I am guessing you have to manually input the data each time you fill up? Can you do that from a phone? I will check out the website. Nice fuel numbers by the way. Mine has only a little over 100 miles but the avg is showing 19.6 which includes stop and go between the dealer and home, trip to Wally World, and grocery store so I am optimistic mileage will be decent, at least non towing.

Sweet!!! But without pics it didn't happen! LOL

[riven1950]

Thanks for all the info folks. I ended up buying a 2013 XLT SCREW 4x4 with a 3.55RE Electric locking RE Ecoboost, also has the off road pkg, although I have yet to figure out exactly what that is other then skid plates to protect the hardware. If anyone knows please share with me. The pkg was already on the truck and I really did not pursue the details with the salesman.

I decided against the 3.31RE. Did not have the option of a 3.73 in the F150's I looked at. I figure the 3.55 is pretty close and will do great for my needs ( 4000lb TT loaded ) Will be a big improvement over the 4.6l v8.

CND Supercrew: Thats a pretty nice fuel program. I am guessing you have to manually input the data each time you fill up? Can you do that from a phone? I will check out the website. Nice fuel numbers by the way. Mine has only a little over 100 miles but the avg is showing 19.6 which includes stop and go between the dealer and home, trip to Wally World, and grocery store so I am optimistic mileage will be decent, at least non towing.

[CND_SuperCrew]

Here is my truck:

Fuelly

[sele]

we have the 3.73 and am convinced it makes a big difference I would search for the 3.73 if you plan on doing any towing at all

[Lessmore]

Wes Tausend wrote:

Lessmore wrote:

Thanks for info. I haven't kept upwith a lot of changes that have taken place in traction assist in the last while.

My locker was the Eaton G 80 locker that was available in GM trucks. I don't know if GM now has an electric on/off switch for their locker.
That would be something I wouldn't mind having.

Sideways can be fun. In my younger years....with RWD vehicles I used to love steering by the rear wheel/wheels..... motorcycles and 4-6 wheelers .;)

Les

You are sure welcome, Les.

It's been a while for me too, so I learned when you mentioned the sophisticated Eaton G 80 locker. I found a good animation, Inside the Eaton G80 Locker, on this differential. It appears much superior to the old spring clutches of Ford Trac-Lok and GM Positraction, but probably not as smooth on glare ice as a "good" True-Trac or "best" air/electric locker.

I also stumbled across an excellent animation of the Torsen, Exploded View - Inside the Eaton TrueTrac Differential.

A bit off subject, but have you raced on ice with studded bikes? Amazing traction, better than dirt.I never ice raced but I did take my car out on ice race tracks, after the racers finished...years ago. In fact the ice track was out on the Red River, which as you know also flows in North Dakota. I cut one real fast lap (I thought)in my '69 VW Beetle....then on the 2nd lap...stuffed it real good into a snowbank. Fortunately about 5 racers heaved it out. My GF at the time wasn't too impressed...she was in the passenger seat.



I didn't race motorcycles...but I've had a number in my time. Back in the '60's, had Czech Jawas +CZ's, Yamaha YDS3 and currently have a '78 Yamaha SR 500 (big single) and a '67 Matchless G15CS 750 Scrambler. It has dual carb, sports cams, Norton 750cc twin, shoehorned into a lighter Matchless frame, low gearing, bash plate under crankcase. This is the way they came from the factory in England. They were originally designed as desert sleds.

I wonder if these studs would work on a pick-up? I've used standard-studded Mud-&-Snow tires to great success on-road in the past. They were used on all tires on a 4x4 Mazda (think Ford Ranger) and completely alleviated the rear diff Trac-Lok problem on glare ice. With this little Mazda, I towed a small car on a flatbed (in 2WD/Trac-Lok) from Massachusetts to ND, lots of glare ice after a major storm, no problem.

Wes
...

Studded tires are seeming to make a bit of a come back up here. They were more common in the '60's, 70's. Now seem to be making a resurgence a bit.

I know that some use the Finnish Nokian snow tires with studs in them. Good thing for places like Manitoba/North Dakota...what with all the very hard frozen ice and lot's of snow that we get.

[Wes_Tausend]

Lessmore wrote:

Thanks for info. I haven't kept upwith a lot of changes that have taken place in traction assist in the last while.

My locker was the Eaton G 80 locker that was available in GM trucks. I don't know if GM now has an electric on/off switch for their locker.
That would be something I wouldn't mind having.

Sideways can be fun. In my younger years....with RWD vehicles I used to love steering by the rear wheel/wheels..... motorcycles and 4-6 wheelers .;)

Les

You are sure welcome, Les.

It's been a while for me too, so I learned when you mentioned the sophisticated Eaton G 80 locker. I found a good animation, Inside the Eaton G80 Locker, on this differential. It appears much superior to the old spring clutches of Ford Trac-Lok and GM Positraction, but probably not as smooth on glare ice as a "good" True-Trac or "best" air/electric locker.

I also stumbled across an excellent animation of the Torsen, Exploded View - Inside the Eaton TrueTrac Differential.

A bit off subject, but have you raced on ice with studded bikes? Amazing traction, better than dirt.



I wonder if these studs would work on a pick-up? I've used standard-studded Mud-&-Snow tires to great success on-road in the past. They were used on all tires on a 4x4 Mazda (think Ford Ranger) and completely alleviated the rear diff Trac-Lok problem on glare ice. With this little Mazda, I towed a small car on a flatbed (in 2WD/Trac-Lok) from Massachusetts to ND, lots of glare ice after a major storm, no problem.

Wes
...

[Lessmore]

Wes Tausend wrote:

Lessmore wrote:

APT wrote:

Lessmore wrote:
Over the 10 years I had it...the locker made the whole vehicle slide out in a nano second....on a couple of occasions when I hit unseen glare ice. Those automatic lockers can be lethal in ice country.

Different strokes. I still rather have two wheels driven instead of one in any low traction situation. While that is riskier to lose control of the back end, it also allows a higher level of control and acceleration.

I have a T-shirt from college auto club. "If you can't make the turn, drive sideways"

I don't disagree with you. I prefer to have two wheels driven in a low traction situation too.

But my preference is to be able to control whether the traction device is switched on or off, by the operator of the vehicle.

I remember years ago there was an ARB locker system. I could be wrong but believe you could switch the locker on and off from a switch on the dash.

I like locking drive axles...also limited slip drive axles. But do prefer the action of a locker.

Traction is always good.

Les

Part of my control strategy was just a courtesy to the guy in the lane next to me.
But yes, sideways can be fun in a safe off-road environment. :B

Les, the ARB airlocker preceeded the electric locker, and it, too, was controllable from the dash.
The air locker was less reliable in that it was difficult to prevent the development of air leaks and also needed an onboard compressor. In contrast, the electric is so simple and reliable, it has become offered OEM. And it is much safer in traffic than the old clutch lockers, always a plus.

These two types of dash-controlled lockers are nearly the only safe locker for front differentials used on the highway. One other exception is the constant Torsen differential, now sold as the Eaton True-Trac.

The reason the Torsen "gets by" with this is, it has a low friction level at the slow differential axle speeds that occur in a turn, whereas clutches have a nasty tendency to have increased friction at slow slip speeds, somewhat mitigated by special axle lube friction modifiers on dry road surfaces.

Just FYI, the Torsen/True-Trac works by a worm/spur gear in wholly lubricated friction. We all know how a worm gear can easily drive a large round helical-cut (slanted teeth) spur gear. But it is difficult for the same big spur gear to drive the worm gear. The Torsen takes advantage of this high friction by first forcing a spur gear to drive a worm, at a difficult super-fast spin rate, that is then re-converted to a mating worm easily driving a spur on the other axle. The complicated, convoluted gearing never wears out like clutches, yet matches their lock-friction in high wheel-slip differential instances. Very nifty invention.

Wes
...

Thanks for info. I haven't kept upwith a lot of changes that have taken place in traction assist in the last while.

My locker was the Eaton G 80 locker that was available in GM trucks. I don't know if GM now has an electric on/off switch for their locker.
That would be something I wouldn't mind having.

Sideways can be fun. In my younger years....with RWD vehicles I used to love steering by the rear wheel/wheels..... motorcycles and 4-6 wheelers .;)

Les

[Wes_Tausend]

Lessmore wrote:

APT wrote:

Lessmore wrote:
Over the 10 years I had it...the locker made the whole vehicle slide out in a nano second....on a couple of occasions when I hit unseen glare ice. Those automatic lockers can be lethal in ice country.

Different strokes. I still rather have two wheels driven instead of one in any low traction situation. While that is riskier to lose control of the back end, it also allows a higher level of control and acceleration.

I have a T-shirt from college auto club. "If you can't make the turn, drive sideways"

I don't disagree with you. I prefer to have two wheels driven in a low traction situation too.

But my preference is to be able to control whether the traction device is switched on or off, by the operator of the vehicle.

I remember years ago there was an ARB locker system. I could be wrong but believe you could switch the locker on and off from a switch on the dash.

I like locking drive axles...also limited slip drive axles. But do prefer the action of a locker.

Traction is always good.

Les

Part of my control strategy was just a courtesy to the guy in the lane next to me.
But yes, sideways can be fun in a safe off-road environment. :B

Les, the ARB airlocker preceeded the electric locker, and it, too, was controllable from the dash.
The air locker was less reliable in that it was difficult to prevent the development of air leaks and also needed an onboard compressor. In contrast, the electric is so simple and reliable, it has become offered OEM. And it is much safer in traffic than the old clutch lockers, always a plus.

These two types of dash-controlled lockers are nearly the only safe locker for front differentials used on the highway. One other exception is the constant Torsen differential, now sold as the Eaton True-Trac.

The reason the Torsen "gets by" with this is, it has a low friction level at the slow differential axle speeds that occur in a turn, whereas clutches have a nasty tendency to have increased friction at slow slip speeds, somewhat mitigated by special axle lube friction modifiers on dry road surfaces.

Just FYI, the Torsen/True-Trac works by a worm/spur gear in wholly lubricated friction. We all know how a worm gear can easily drive a large round helical-cut (slanted teeth) spur gear. But it is difficult for the same big spur gear to drive the worm gear. The Torsen takes advantage of this high friction by first forcing a spur gear to drive a worm, at a difficult super-fast spin rate, that is then re-converted to a mating worm easily driving a spur on the other axle. The complicated, convoluted gearing never wears out like clutches, yet matches their lock-friction in high wheel-slip differential instances. Very nifty invention.

Wes
...

[Lessmore]

APT wrote:

Lessmore wrote:
Over the 10 years I had it...the locker made the whole vehicle slide out in a nano second....on a couple of occasions when I hit unseen glare ice. Those automatic lockers can be lethal in ice country.

Different strokes. I still rather have two wheels driven instead of one in any low traction situation. While that is riskier to lose control of the back end, it also allows a higher level of control and acceleration.

I have a T-shirt from college auto club. "If you can't make the turn, drive sideways"

I don't disagree with you. I prefer to have two wheels driven in a low traction situation too.

But my preference is to be able to control whether the traction device is switched on or off, by the operator of the vehicle.

I remember years ago there was an ARB locker system. I could be wrong but believe you could switch the locker on and off from a switch on the dash.

I like locking drive axles...also limited slip drive axles. But do prefer the action of a locker.

Traction is always good.

Les

[eluwak]

I had the 3.73 ELD and it came in handy to get through soft grass without spinning the wheel. My truck had 27000 miles on it and lifetime average was just under 16 MPG not towing, probably 40/60 Hwy/City. For me I had to drive right around 55 MPH to get anything decent like 20+ MPGs.

[APT]

Lessmore wrote:
Over the 10 years I had it...the locker made the whole vehicle slide out in a nano second....on a couple of occasions when I hit unseen glare ice. Those automatic lockers can be lethal in ice country.

Different strokes. I still rather have two wheels driven instead of one in any low traction situation. While that is riskier to lose control of the back end, it also allows a higher level of control and acceleration.

I have a T-shirt from college auto club. "If you can't make the turn, drive sideways"

[Lessmore]

Wes Tausend wrote:
...

I can comment on the the electric axle locker only. It certainly won't hurt while towing, or otherwise, and will help if you happen to camp somewhere in dry weather and have to leave by driving through mud after a rain.

The older positrac/traction-lok clutch type axles were a nuisance on icy roads. Since they were engaged all the time, until they wore out their clutches, there was a tendency for the rear to suddenly slip sideways on an icy hill because the tires didn't slip at all until both could slip at once. This "surprise" has spun more than one vehicle into the ditch and I surmise, is the reason that safer, selective, speed de-selected, electric lock is now offered.

One wheel slipping, on non-locked differentials, at least allows good steering tracking and a warning to ease up on the throttle. You will notice that front locking has never been commonly offered OEM and, if you can imagine, is usually recommended against for the horror that can create in winter steering loss. I live in ice country, and owned both a car and truck with the tricky old rear locking systems. To me they weren't worth the repeated white-knuckle ice experience for the very few times I needed them off-road.

Wes
...

You are exactly right Wes. I live north of you...similar weather...and I had a truck with a locker axle. Over the 10 years I had it...the locker made the whole vehicle slide out in a nano second....on a couple of occasions when I hit unseen glare ice. Those automatic lockers can be lethal in ice country.

The only locker I would get would be one where I had control of when it was switched on.

Les