Need Guidance on Buying the Right Truck

[BurbMan]

Hi guys, you may remember I posted last year about my 2002 Lance 811 that I acquired for free because it needs a little restoration ("How Bad Is This?")

Well the house remodeling is finally done, DW has her brand new kitchen, I sold the TT last week, and the project is ready to begin!!

I found this in the owner's manual, which was apparently prepared by the factory for this specific camper.



The previous owner was running this on a 80's vintage F-250 with 351 and 4-speed manual. I'm starting to scout for trucks and have some initial questions:

1. The weight is listed as 3017, so with full water (30 gals) and gear I'm probably in the 3600 lb range loaded? (the gear in the TT was 1600 lbs but it was 32' and had too much storage).
2. At this weight I probably need a 350/3500 something, but is a dually necessary or advisable? Looking more to offroad with this on the beach than travel long distances.
3. The distances in the center of gravity drawing add up to 8' so I guess I need a long bed? Can I consider 6.5' beds or is that off the table?

I know there are variables in truck ratings but since I'm buying used I want to at least filter down to the type I'm looking for.

Thanks in advance and y'all are staying out of the path of this virus. It's been bad here in NY and have lost some friends.

[Grit_dog]

Unless there is a structural concern, that 811 is absolutely short enough to ride on a short bed truck.
Lance marketed their 821 that year as the "short bed" model which is coincidentally a bit longer than the 811.
I wouldn't suspect that a quality mfg camper would sag with a couple feet un-supported in the rear, as many campers are designed this way.

Worst case, leave the tailgate on. That's what I did for years, not out of necessity for camper support, but convenience. Until I built a generator shelf that conflicts with the tailgate.

[Grit_dog]

billtex wrote:

bwlyon wrote:
Also the 18” wheel tire combo will net the greatest tire capacity, avoid the 20” wheels.

Both 18” and 20” tires available in LI 129 (4080#).

Yup, everyone needs to get the 20th century misnomer out of their heads, that dubs are strictly for low riders and not capable.

[BurbMan]

Good point and so not an option for me.

BTW, we got sidetracked on the weight discussion...what about bed length? Here is the CG spec from Lance, do I need a long bed or will this work with a short bed?

[jimh406]

One more quick note in case someone is considering 19.5s for the beach, you can’t air down 19.5s past about 60-70 due to the type of bead they use.

[BurbMan]

Our 32' TT scaled at 6900 dry and 8500 on an average trip, so 1600 lbs of stuff. Heading out to the beach with extra firewood and water it was closer to 9000 lbs. The TC doesn't have anywhere close to the storage that the TT had...it does have a slide out but no basement.

Thanks for the heads up on the 18" tires, I feel better about a SRW.

[jimh406]

BurbMan wrote:
At the end of the day the real limiting factor is the 3450-ish max rating on an E-rated tire. Only way to get more capacity is 19.5 tire and G-rated or dually.

There are 4080 rated tires in size 18 at least. I ran 19.5s on a F350 SRW because I simply needed a SRW for my daily driver. Any DRW was too wide. If I would have known about those 4080 18s (don’t know if they existed then), I would have gone that route instead of 19.5s. The ride loaded was fine with 19.5s, but the empty washboarded gravel road ride was pretty bad with 19.5s.

Fwiw, I went DRW when I no longer needed the SRW. As it turned out, even the SRW wasn’t small enough to park where I worked later. That led me to buy a car as a daily driver.

[JimK-NY]

wnjj wrote:


3k is the wet weight with standard options. There is a list of options with their weights you need to include if you have any.

Our 9.5’ camper with slide specs out somewhere around 3300-3400 wet. It runs about 4k loaded up. I doubt you’ll hit 4k either.

I think most of us find that it is really easy to add a lot of weight. Yes, first think of any options. We upgraded the mattress to foam which is quite heavy. We added large AGM batteries, 2 solar panels and a generator. When you do any sort of extended camping it is also real easy to add a lot of weight: kitchen gear, food, cleaning supplies, tools, clothing, extra bedding, laptops, camera gear, leveling blocks, generator gas, folding chairs, books/maps/travel guides, air compressor, BBQ grill, hoses, electric space heater, rope/bungies/hardware/caulk, backpacks, canteens/hydration pack, flashlights, etc....

[specta]

BurbMan wrote:


On the plus side, I brought the camper home with a 250 and it seemed to do fine

Congrats on your camper.

Everybody thinks everyone needs an F-550 to carry a 4000 camper.

No doubt the bigger the better. But do you REALLY need it?

I LOVE your tie downs. :B



Here's my first camper that I bought some time ago.
COG was better than my current camper but it weighed about 250 lbs more than my current camper.

No air bags no nothing.



Took a nice road trip to OR and down the coast. Back up Donner Pass and thru Lake Tahoe back to Utah. Not a single issue.
Generic E rated tires and a 6.0 gasser if you can believe it.

I have added Firestone airbags to level the truck out a little bit better.

I'm a happy camper.

[BurbMan]

jimh425 wrote:
burningman knows better.

I'm sure he does, and I'll admit to baiting him a little with my snarky "school me" comment...I've been on this forum since 2001 listening to this same "discussion" on the Towing and Tow Vehicle forums, GVWR vs GAWR etc etc. We never solve anything, we just have fun talking it to death.

At the end of the day the real limiting factor is the 3450-ish max rating on an E-rated tire. Only way to get more capacity is 19.5 tire and G-rated or dually. Even the GM 14-bolt full floating axle in my 2500 Suburban is rated to 10k lbs.

On the plus side, I brought the camper home with a 250 and it seemed to do fine



Thanks for all the good comments here! This weekend I need to move the camper to where the TT was parked, build a temp garage, and get to the restoration!

[Grit_dog]

billtex wrote:
1 ton may have heavier wheels.

Nope

[wnjj]

BurbMan wrote:
That is what I am thinking...Ram 3500 with 6.4L gas SRW long bed, either crew or extended cab. I can upgrade wheels and tires to give me more stability and footprint on the beach. No prohibition on duallies up here, but without spacers you can have rubbing issues when aired down.

The 3K is the wet weight, so I don't think we would get past 4k with just the two of us and some supplies. The whole idea of the TC is more minimalist, not packing like we are entertaining for 12 (which we frequently did with the TT).
But hey it wouldn't be camping if we weren't over GVWR right? LOL

3k is the wet weight with standard options. There is a list of options with their weights you need to include if you have any.

Our 9.5’ camper with slide specs out somewhere around 3300-3400 wet. It runs about 4k loaded up. I doubt you’ll hit 4k either.

[billtex]

bwlyon wrote:
Also the 18” wheel tire combo will net the greatest tire capacity, avoid the 20” wheels.

Both 18” and 20” tires available in LI 129 (4080#).

[billtex]

jimh425 wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

burningman wrote:
All this sticker reading without knowing or looking at what parts are actually under the truck is gonna drive me right off of here sometime soon.

Hey I'm here to learn, so if you have some knowledge about what important parts I should be looking for please, please share!

burningman knows better. Maybe had too much/too little Corona. Sure, you can likely build a 2500 that is approaching a 3500 without the GVWR, but not all of us would want to bother when we could simply buy a 3500 if we want a 3500.

Sure, there are some 2500s that are close to a 3500 since you were talking Ram, but there are also 2500s with coil springs in the rear. Similarly, F250s and F350s have different spring blocks with the net result being more sag.

Finally, both brands can have different tires on the 2500s and 3500s which besides GVWR can mean you have a real difference in tires and actual RAWR.

Then, again, maybe he’s thinking of something else. 😄

True dat;
F350 vs F250 = larger spring pack in F350. Better check wheel/tire ratings also. 1 ton may have heavier wheels.

There is very little cost difference at time of purchase, so get the 1 ton. It will cost you more to upgrade spring, wheels, etc later on.

[Grit_dog]

burningman wrote:
What’s funny is the guy who originally had the camper had it on an ‘80s F250.
What’s funnier is a SRW one ton is literally the same truck as a 3/4 ton.
All this sticker reading without knowing or looking at what parts are actually under the truck is gonna drive me right off of here sometime soon.

Hey man that’s ok.... the mods are driving me off of here as we speak.
Bout half my posts just go poof including my response to this thread last night.
Guess they don’t like people who are more knowledgeable or have better memories than themselves or some of the other members.
Deuces!

Don’t mean anything to Burb man. Trying to help, but the rvnet bullchit gets in the way...

[jaycocreek]

F-250 vs F-350 SRW..Basically little difference that matters with a truck camper as Burningman said..Same axles and same tires which are the most important thing with a truck camper IMHO...With either the F-250 or F-350 and a 4K truck camper..You will be modding it up for the sway a SRW has vs a DRW..

Both the F250 and the F350 are available with gas or diesel engines. Most are equipped with the diesel because it is more economical and hauls/tows better. Both the F250 and F350 are also available with both an automatic, and manual transmission. So what’s the drivetrain difference? There isn’t one. The F250 and F350 share the exact same drivetrain.

Depending on which year you Super Duty you’re looking at, the front axle may be a Dana 50 or Dana 60. Older F250s and F350s use the Dana 50, which is an excellent axle. Newer F250s and F350s use the Dana 60 which is slightly beefier than the Dana 50. All years of the SRW (Single Rear Wheel) F250 and F350 use the Ford/Sterling 10.75

All years of Super Duty trucks are available with heavy duty springs and standard springs. Both the F250 and the F350 have optional overload springs. The F350’s leaf springs are slightly stiffer, but it’s such a small difference you probably wouldn’t notice on the road. The F350 has stiffer springs up front as standard, the F250 has those same springs as an option. Something that surprised me is that both of these trucks come with factory blocks in the rear. The F250 is equipped with a 2.5? block, which lifts the rear up to help the truck sit level whilst towing. The F350 comes factory with a 4? rear block. The bigger rear block on the F350 gives it a slightly higher tow rating.

To put it simply, the F350 has marginally stiffer springs, and a 4? block compared to the F250’s 3.5? block.

Something I didn’t mention above is the fact that some states will consider the F350 to be a commercial vehicle. This will make your insurance and registration costs go up. If you live in a state where that is not the case, I would say get an F350. The slightly stiffer springs will make towing a little bit nicer. Prices for both the F250 and F350 are nearly identical, so there’s really no reason not to go with the F350.