New Truck More Payload

[wjlapier]

We are in Montana at the KOA in St Mary. We have land up past Babb and was hoping to bring our camper ( Host Everest ) up there but too soggy and muddy. In fact we got our truck stuck and had to wait over night to get it out. The camper wasn’t on the truck thank God.

Got me to thinking about a few things, one buying a new truck with much more payload than what our current truck has. Looked at the Dodge 5500 briefly ( there was one here at the KOA ), but nothing serious.

We are also thinking of towing my wife’s Toyota RAV4.

If we went with the Dodge 5500, I’m assuming we have plenty of payload capacity and some. There are many things we usually bring this way but didn’t to keep weight down. Most tools, but some camping stuff. We do a lot of work clearing trees and brush so we bring out chainsaw and weeder. We could use our small ladder as well. All this stuff adds up I know.

What do you folks think?

[Highway_Runner]

I am operating a 2016 F350 Dually 4x4. The as built weight capacity rating is 7450. The Eagle Cap 1165 I have is showing an as built dry weight of 4800.
Loaded with a half tank of water I weighed 60 pounds under GVWR.
The upgrades include Air Lift 7500 airbags, Stable Loads, Rancho 9000.
These upgrades don’t change the load capacity for legal purposes, but do offer a more stable/ comfortable ride.
I pull a boat routinely and will flat pull a small SUV when that time comes.
The giant worry to be considered is liability if you cause a catastrophic accident.
Otherwise I am very comfortable with my setup.
Respectfully,
Kent

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
I’ve never said that….lol!

I paraphrased. My wording more accurately describes the sentiment while your actual wording may have been slightly more... diplomatic.

Should have included a smiley i spose. All in good fun, was joking w you! Cheers!

[mkirsch]

Grit dog wrote:
I’ve never said that….lol!

I paraphrased. My wording more accurately describes the sentiment while your actual wording may have been slightly more... diplomatic.

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Totally get the rated payload concern

Wait, who are you and what have you done with Grit dog?

You're usually on the front lines of, "People who pay attention to ratings are namby-pamby, panty-waisted, pansy hippies that should not be allowed to own a truck."

I’ve never said that….lol!
And I generally don’t yell at the person asking the question. It’s the (you mentioned above) folks who tell the person asking the question that they can’t haul more than a load of mulch in a 1 ton truck!
Hahaha
Guy could be and sounds like he’s moving to MT every time he loads up. But he’s still good for 6k in the bed.

[cptqueeg]

Welp how about this: Build a nice steel building on your MT property and store the truck and/or TC there and drive the RAV from home. Or store the RAV there. There will be room for all your excess camping, chainsaws and homesteading equipment as well. Another thought was to put in a well.


It sounds like you have a great setup w property, truck, great TC, a wife willing to go along so I wouldn't dwell on the perceived limitations. Inch along step by step, no reason to get rash and step up to a 5500 right now.

(It took me a couple years to understand that payload ratings are based on more than the physical ability of the truck so over time w a few mods your current truck may be all you need.)

[mkirsch]

Grit dog wrote:
Totally get the rated payload concern

Wait, who are you and what have you done with Grit dog?

You're usually on the front lines of, "People who pay attention to ratings are namby-pamby, panty-waisted, pansy hippies that should not be allowed to own a truck."

[mkirsch]

wjlapier wrote:
The truck has a sticker that says cargo weight rating is 1772KG(3906lbs) “with this truck as manufactured”.

Okay, that is the truck's empty weight subtracted from the truck's GVWR.

It's all a matter of where you want to draw the line, and which numbers you choose to believe.

The RAWR of that truck is going to be somewhere around 10,000lbs or higher. Empty you're looking at 3500-4000 on the rear axle, leaving 6000-6500 for the camper, which resides 90-95% on the rear axle.

The weight you are currently at, even 1500lbs over the stated weight of the camper, you are not even stressing components. You could even live a little and bring that extra pair of socks.

It's just something you either have to be, or get comfortable with, or don't, and buy the F550.

[JIMNLIN]

New Truck More Payload

The 5500 Ram CC has those big 13500 rawr. This will get you in the 9800-10200 lb payload range depending on std cab vs crew cab.

I have no idea how much a loaded Host weighs but say it weighs 6000 lb wet. The 5500 truck will have around 4000 lbs for lots of extras.
These number are a estimate and actual payload comes from scaled axle weights.

I see lots of 3500/4500 CC ranch/farm flat beds and a few 5500 CC trucks around stock yards pulling 40' GN stock trailer with 10k-11k lb axles ( tandem dual axles).

Braking with the 5500 pulling a toad shouldn't be a issue. Those big 13500 rawr plus the trucks 7000 fawr = 20500 lbs of braking performance at a minimum.

[Grit_dog]

wjlapier wrote:
Goes back to:

The truck has a sticker that says cargo weight rating is 1772KG(3906lbs) “with this truck as manufactured”.

Host sticker says “as equiped” 4350

I realize we’ve gone through this before but the camper weighing more than the manufacturer suggests is in my mind. We packed the camper with that info, and what I read here in my other thread. No issues what so ever driving from Washington to Montana with only stableloads upper and lower installed.

So, forgetting about the getting stuck part, we would like to load up everything we usually do when we go to Montana, but also tow my wife’s car, and if need be, carry a full tank of fresh water.

If pulling a small car won’t affect the uphill downhill driving over mountain passes ( 3 this trip ), then fine we can tow with the current truck. It’s all the extra stuff that adds up I’m concerned about.

We would love to put the camper on a truck and hook up her car and be too concerned we are over weight or under powered. As for daily driving a stiffer suspension truck, I’m not too concerned about that.

I appreciate the feedback and comments. Gives me something to think about while we decide what our next steps is. The Everest is a keeper, and we would like to tow the little car, so it evolves from there.

Thanks folks.

Totally get the rated payload concern, however it appears you got a dually that doesn't have a 14klb gvwr. I can tell you matter of factly that it is every bit as stout and safe as any other newer 1 ton dually with payload ratings in the 5klb+ range.
Heck, you've already proven it, as I'm sure your camper is north of 5klbs loaded and you're happy with the stock suspension and nothing to increase spring rate (not to be confused with stable loads which only engage the full spring rate earlier in the suspension cycle).
A far as towing, power wise, you'll notice almost no difference. A toad doesn't add any tongue weight or payload to the truck, and you still won't need to use your brakes going downhill in a newer diesel with just a compact car on the hitch.
IMO, this is a case of if you can understand the vehicle's capability or are just simply not convinced it's ok because the mfg somehow slapped a low payload rating on a more capable truck.

Now if you're really tipping 6klbs giver take payload, I'd say you're getting into the upper part of the truck's capability.

[mkirsch]

wjlapier wrote:
I’m still here.

Just curious where some of you get your stats re: tire and axle ratings. I look for info and most of the time it’s to buy a truck, or towing. Not too much on payloads. And while I’m at it, how do you determine or know that pulling a car behind the truck with camper won’t affect braking?

We’re still gathering info. We came across this Ford F550 with the flatbed camper. It didn’t look much higher or beefier than our Chevy. The payload is beyond what we need and would love to load up the camper, hook u0 my wife’s car, and go. Not think about weight. Speaking of, we are going through an area where we won’t have water so I plan on filling up the tank. This will add another ~500lbs to our payload. Instead of taking someone’s word I’d like to read something more official, no offense. I do appreciate to comments and ideas, but when it comes to driving a large truck with a large camper I want to feel peace of mind.

How do you know a toad won't affect braking? Because the toad has its own brakes, and anyone with any common sense would install a "Brake Buddy" or similar system so the toad's brakes act in concert with the truck's brakes.

As far as numbers, I don't know what you want. The only "official" numbers are from the manufacturer, and they're not going to paint the picture you want to see. Going by manufacturer's numbers you will HAVE to go with an F550 class truck to get your "peace of mind."

You still haven't expressed YOUR concerns in numbers. What do you weigh now that you seem to think you have to count the number of pairs of socks you bring along on a camping trip?

[Reality_Check]

wjlapier wrote:
.... As for daily driving a stiffer suspension truck, I’m not too concerned about that....

Well, jump in then. Because if a bonafide buckboard doesn't bother you, you're going to love the thing.

Check out the thread reference "Liquid Springs", or any number of threads detailing the upgrades to suspensions on these trucks.

Don't get me wrong; I think 550's/5500's are fantastic. I could talk myself into one all day long. But if you're really going to drive one empty as a daily driver, lol, you're one tough and sadistic SOB. 🙂

[wjlapier]

Grit dog wrote:

JimK-NY wrote:
I am missing the logic here. So your truck got stuck in the mud and you are thinking of getting a bigger truck so you can carry even more weight? More weight just further limits you to staying on good roads.

I think the stick in the mud story was mutually exclusive of the payload thing.

You’re right. Could have left that info out.

[wjlapier]

Goes back to:

The truck has a sticker that says cargo weight rating is 1772KG(3906lbs) “with this truck as manufactured”.

Host sticker says “as equiped” 4350

I realize we’ve gone through this before but the camper weighing more than the manufacturer suggests is in my mind. We packed the camper with that info, and what I read here in my other thread. No issues what so ever driving from Washington to Montana with only stableloads upper and lower installed.

So, forgetting about the getting stuck part, we would like to load up everything we usually do when we go to Montana, but also tow my wife’s car, and if need be, carry a full tank of fresh water.

If pulling a small car won’t affect the uphill downhill driving over mountain passes ( 3 this trip ), then fine we can tow with the current truck. It’s all the extra stuff that adds up I’m concerned about.

We would love to put the camper on a truck and hook up her car and be too concerned we are over weight or under powered. As for daily driving a stiffer suspension truck, I’m not too concerned about that.

I appreciate the feedback and comments. Gives me something to think about while we decide what our next steps is. The Everest is a keeper, and we would like to tow the little car, so it evolves from there.

Thanks folks.

[Grit_dog]

wjlapier wrote:
I’m still here.

Just curious where some of you get your stats re: tire and axle ratings. I look for info and most of the time it’s to buy a truck, or towing. Not too much on payloads. And while I’m at it, how do you determine or know that pulling a car behind the truck with camper won’t affect braking?

We’re still gathering info. We came across this Ford F550 with the flatbed camper. It didn’t look much higher or beefier than our Chevy. The payload is beyond what we need and would love to load up the camper, hook u0 my wife’s car, and go. Not think about weight. Speaking of, we are going through an area where we won’t have water so I plan on filling up the tank. This will add another ~500lbs to our payload. Instead of taking someone’s word I’d like to read something more official, no offense. I do appreciate to comments and ideas, but when it comes to driving a large truck with a large camper I want to feel peace of mind.

All the “stats” are published. Have you ever looked at mfgs towing guides or detailed brochures or looked up the load capacity of a particular size tire?
That said I don’t think med duty trucks publish “payload” per se, but just axle ratings and gvwr. Not hard to figure approximate payload available from that.

But you’re skirting the question about your current truck. You don’t want conjecture but haven’t even alluded to why you think your current Dooley isn’t up to the task.
Regarding the toad, if you’re not comfortable towing a little car w/o brakes, add a brake system.
Good luck in your ventures.