New TV - need space for wife, 3 boys + dog!

[CHD_Dad]

Hey everyone. Just looking for some basic info and feedback. I am not buying anytime soon but we always like to plan as far ahead as possible. After seeing how tight my Tundra was getting on our last beach trip it could be sooner vs. later to upgrade.

Current truck is a Tundra Crewmax. Daily driver. Paid off. Have zero complaints with it, it does it's job just fine for us currently. I put on about 15,000 miles a year right now including camping trips (about 4 a year ranging from 50 miles away to several hundred miles).

I have 3 boys (5, 3, 1) and a 70 lb older puppy/dog who may not be done growing (pound rescue). That means three car seats in the back row for a while so keep that in mind. We do 2 long beach trips a year so we carry a fair amount of "stuff" too. Right now I am right at my Toyota's payload max of 1300# and that is packing smart.

I know the boys will only get bigger, our dog may get bigger and bigger kids means bigger bikes, toys, etc. Our current camper is light at only 6300# or so loaded up for camping but we would want the ability to possibly upgrade and we cant with the Tundra, this is as big as it will ever be.

Bought the Tundra new and paid it off in couple years. Not sure if I would go used or new on the next TV, just depends on the model, miles, available options, etc. What we need is space for a growing family and preferably more payload/towing ability. We have thought about vehicles from 1T trucks, to something like an E350, to a big block 'burb to older diesel Excursions. If we go with a a 5'er we of course need the truck but we dont mind sticking with a TT. What concerns us is daily driving use, gas mileage, comfort, etc. I think my truck is darn close to my wifes Sienna in comfort and I get 18mpg in daily driving. When towing I get 9mpg!

So thoughts? We even looked at getting an older dedicated TV just for camping and I can buy a daily driver car but we would want to make sure the TV was nice enough for our long trips with plenty of space. I know a friend of mine has an older Chevy 3500 DRW diesel he'll let go cheap but I dont know if I would want to take that on some of our 11hr drives.

Oh, forgot the most important part - budget! Price no object this is easy. Figure $25-$35K max for either a new TV for daily driving or a TV/daily driver combo (and that daily driver needs to fit three car seats across that back which narrows things down fast). I know that budget takes almost all new vehicles out that would be big enough to do what we want, but we hate debt and have none other than our home and that is getting paid off quick. If that is just too low, offer up options and we'll go from there!

[mastercraft1995]

Put the dog in a crate in the back of the truck and keep the Tundra. As the kids get bigger trips are going to be harder to go on because of all the sporting events they are going to get into.

[CHD_Dad]

The van is harder than I thought to find. I just wanted to check pricing on used models and within 200 miles there are TWO V10 Ford vans that are not cargo models and neither are in good shape. There are a mountain of the V8 models that are pretty cheap but I dont see that engine doing what we need very well. I am just using Autotrader to look so may need to look elsewhere.

My friend keeps pushing his truck for me as a dedicated tow vehicle - any thoughts?
1997 GMC 3500 DRW Crewcab diesel auto tranny. 240K on the odo. Has had reg maintenance and lots of parts replaced recently (mainly susp work but also starter and some other parts), not sure of motor work. New Michelin tires all around (he works there). He pulls an old 8000# Terry TT with it. Claims he gets around 22mpg on the highway empty and 12 towing. It runs and drives well, I have ridden in it and drove once. Its a little rough inside just due to age. He wants around $4K if he sells it to me. Wife is worried about taking it on our longer 11 hr drives just as far as reliability and comfort for the family is concerned. The back seat is good sized for now, not sure once the kids get bigger.

Keep in mind this truck would be sitting from fall until spring. For an avg year we go on one long trip in the spring, one long in the summer and two shorter in late spring and in the fall.

As far as non-towing mileage asked before. If I had to guess - probably put on 11-12K miles a year in daily driving. Most of that is 4 trips a day back and forth to school to drop and pick up kids.

[TECMike]

With the kids, big dog and gear, I sure would strongly consider a van. Some church vans sometime become available, as well as vans from rent-a-car companies. Probably no frills but they are a good alternative.

[carringb]

mcsurveyor wrote:
We went with a Chevy Express 3500. 12 seats, or 8 seats and a lot of cargo area, 6.0, 6-speed, 9800 lbs towing. And still gets 18-19 mpg on the highway. Got our 2012 with 11,000 miles on it for $23k.

Keep in mind Ford and Chevy don't use the same formula to the tow rating. Chevy's rating is best case, so any passengers or cargo has deducted from that figure.

[mcsurveyor]

We went with a Chevy Express 3500. 12 seats, or 8 seats and a lot of cargo area, 6.0, 6-speed, 9800 lbs towing. And still gets 18-19 mpg on the highway. Got our 2012 with 11,000 miles on it for $23k.

[carringb]

Oops I almost forgot about http://www.ujointoffroad.com/

You may want to give Chris a jingle. He's pretty close to you. His conversions are the most affordable out there, they just don't carry a full Ford-backed warranty like QuadVan or Quigley (he gives you a warranty on his work of course). He may even have something in a pipeline already 4x4 thats within your budget, or can put you on a list in case he gets a trade.

[carringb]

CHD Dad wrote:
Bryan - that used one has captains chairs in the back which is something we wanted if we went that route and it doesnt appear you can get newer E350's that way.

They only offer that seating now in the Premium package, which only comes in the E150. The E150 actually is stout (8600# GVWR, 8-lug wheels 3,000 pounds carrying capacity) but the E150 only gets the 5.4L.

It is a very quick swap to exchange the 2nd row bench in a 12 or 15 pax for a pair of captains. The captains are also quick release.

CHD Dad wrote:

We saw a really nice E350 4x4 diesel on our last trip and it was decked out for also running on the FL beaches with what looked to be a small lift and offroad tires.

2010 was the last year for the diesel in the E-series. I don't think it has been missed. Less power then the V10, only slightly better MPGs, more expensive maintenance, and less reliable. There are some good 4x4 options out there, and if you pick up a used van, you can probably stay within your budget even with a 4x4 conversion. QuadVan

CHD Dad wrote:

I saw the new E350 with the max tow package was only rated at 10K lbs towing, even with the V10 and 4.10 gears. Is that right? I have to think it would be a major gas hog with those gears and the 5spd. All the used E350's around me are the flex fuel V8 models.

The 10k rating is due to the factory hitch. If you upgrade to a class-5 you can take full advantage of the 18,500 GCWR . The V10 isn't too bad on fuel. Probably comparable to your Tundra. The V10 in the newer gears will see about 16 mpg cruising on the hwy. Like any gas motor it gets about 8 pulling a TT. The V8 does better solo (We usually see about 19 when I rent them for trips) but won't do better, and may do worse, towing.

[APT]

Older 3/4 ton 8.1L Burb, Excursion, etc as a dedicated TV. They came fairly well equipped with conveniences and luxuries. I love my 3/4 ton newer Suburban, but it's more like 14mpg in mixed DD, 18mpg highway, and 8-9mpg towing like every other gasser.

How many non towing miles per year?

[phenrichs]

I picked up a 06 Dodge Megacab for $17K last summer. It is a Laramie edition 4x4 SRW with the 5.9 CTD and a 4spd auto.

It fits me, DW, 3 kids and our dalmation still has room enough to lay down on the floor in the back seat. It is my daily driver. I get about 15mpg in town and anywhere from 19-24 hwy depending on conditions. get 8-12 towing. Love it. It took me two years to find one at a price I could live with.

[CHD_Dad]

Bryan - that used one has captains chairs in the back which is something we wanted if we went that route and it doesnt appear you can get newer E350's that way. We saw a really nice E350 4x4 diesel on our last trip and it was decked out for also running on the FL beaches with what looked to be a small lift and offroad tires. I thought it was pretty nice looking and even my wife liked it. Never found the owner to talk to them more about it.

I saw the new E350 with the max tow package was only rated at 10K lbs towing, even with the V10 and 4.10 gears. Is that right? I have to think it would be a major gas hog with those gears and the 5spd. All the used E350's around me are the flex fuel V8 models.

[donn0128]

Full sized SUV or a van would be good choices.

[carringb]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-Ford-E-350-Club-Wagon-Chateau-7-Passenger-V10-129k-Extremely-Cle...
^It has the original low-output V10, but for that price you could stick some go faster goodies on it (Banks, AFE intake, and a chip) and/or re-gear it and it should pull pretty good.