Now that many of us have LED lights ... why 6Vs and solar?

[jimh406]

I'm sure I'm underpowered compared to the rest of you at only 2 Group 24 12V batteries. I can't fit larger batteries, but I don't really seem to need them. I'm thinking about adding solar, but I generally only need a bit of generator power or driving to top my batteries off. I don't think that I'm that unusual with the advent of running LED lights.

So, back to the question, why do you have 6Vs and what do you use that uses that much 12V power or if you have both 6Vs and solar, so what do you do with all of that power?

[silversand]

Anyone here using semi-flexible (not roll-up) solar panels? The OP may be amenable to this genre.

My future buy would be a ~~30% flexible panel in the ~120 to ~144 watt range around 4.7 LBS, with between ~22% and 23.x% efficiency. It looks like all the higher end "thin film technologies" these days are achieving in the 21% to 23.3% cell efficiencies (NREL; Solar Frontier; EMPA; Solibro; etc...). I would carry a solar panel backing made of 0.5 inch XPS insulation (weighing almost nothing). This would be a portable/movable panel of course...

[billtex]

A solar system will provide steady state charging which should prolong battery life also. Running a genny for short periods of time as you are doing now, or charging from your truck, are only providing a surface charge.
Battery life is related to depth of discharge and time before fully recharging.

Not only is solar "set it and forget it"...solar should save $ in the long term.

We are running (2) GR 31 6V AGM's and a 100W Zamp system. We are not huge power consumers and this set up has proven very robust and care free for us.

B

[Camper_Jeff___K]

2 group 31 AGM batteries and an 80 watt solar panel. Solar panels under best conditions seem at best, at least here in the PNW, to put out about 70-80% of their advertised rating. That output starts in the morning, peaking at high, unobstructed midday sun, then gradually diminishing throughout the day. We slowly lose the charge battle with our system. I have installed a 4 AWG charge wire from the alternator directly to the TC batteries and that does a good job of charging when at camp idling for a bit and the truck is much quieter than a generator. Plus no added weight.
Our uses are a couple laptops throughout the day as needed and doubles as playing DVD movies at night from time to time. LED lights throughout the TC so that amp load is greatly reduced. Furnace blower when needed. In the summer at night around the fire when the bugs show up, I get out a pair of 19" box fans, plug them into the inverter, and place them to blow on us. The bugs vanish nearly instantly with the mild breeze they create which on a hot night can be a great comfort from the heat. We also run two Fantastic vents at night and the day for keeping us cool in the TC and also for Charlie our camping cat when we leave him in the TC to go golfing, hiking, shopping, etc... to be sure he stays cool.
I have considered getting a margarita mixer to pump and dump waste into vault toilets to avoid having to return to civilization. Even so, at 7 days out, I kind of get the 7 day steak and baked potato itch in town anyway.

[covered_wagon]

I have enough trouble these days just keeping enough energy to go hiking like I like. I never worry about the numbers or any of that... just go have fun and charge when I need to. In 13 years I'm still on my second set of cheap wet cells. By now I think I can call them only 10 volt batteries but they still work.

[jimh406]

Thanks for everyone's explanations on why they are doing what they are doing.

To clear some things up for my own case, I'll detail below.

1. I have two Group 24s. Mine are Napa batteries and as far as I've found out, they are made by Exide and 80 AH each or 160 AH total on a full charge.
2. My fridge is a Dometic propane/electric. Max draw 5A and from what I can find about .125A when the flame is lit. At 8 hours per day, that would still only be 1AH.
3. All of my lights are M4 LEDs which seem to be about .25A each. We don't usually use them during the day, so figure 4 times 4 hours or 4 AH.
4. We don't usually leave the waterpump on. It's a newer Shurflo Revolution with max amp draw of 7.5A. At 1 hour per day, that's 7.5AH.
5. The smoke detector is battery powered.
6. Carbon Monoxide detector is 40mA or about 1AH.
7. LP Detector is 108 mA or 2.6 AH.
8. Variable speed fan specs say 3 A on high. 2 hours a day on low is probably no more than 5 AH.
9. TV and DVD player 50 watts powered by inverter 5A or at 4 hours 20AH.
10. The big one for us is the furnace at up to 10A. Let's say 4 hours to estimate high or 40AH. We only need that in cold weather though.

My total is 80AH including the furnace which is why I'm not having any issues at all with good batteries.

We generally run the generator for a few minutes each day which tops our batteries off while we cook in the microwave for a few minutes. Of course, if we drive, we get the truck charge.

To stay even if I don't include any generator time, I need to replace 80AH including furnace which is a pretty tall order for solar, but possible. Most 100W panels seem to be rated at 5A. If we figured 8 hours, I'd still need 2 panels at max output for 80AH (5A x 2 panels x 8 hours).

However, if we run the furnace less or not at all and don't turn on the tv which is also normal, my usage drops all of the way down to 20 AH and one solar panel is more than enough at 40AH(5A x 8 hours). There are also 50W panels as well, so if I went that small, I'd break even with solar not including furnace or tv or generator.

Meanwhile ... solar or not solar is the question.

[covered_wagon]

The larger the battery amp hour capacity the more charge times required to fully charge and properly care for those expensive batteries.

Me.... I go for less expensive, less worry fusing over wether I am sulphating a cheap battery as long as I can go all night in the cold and stay warm with furnace running I'm okay with charging each day, but, not having to charge for extended periods because the battery capacity is so high.

[silversand]

Jefe 4x4 wrote:
The only way our set up could go south is if we were camping in a tunnel.

LOL

...there are a lot of ways to "make it work" for sure. This is often tempered by lifestyle, and world-view. We are taking the extreme cost-effective approach, we being minimalists.

One day, it would be nice to grab a portable light-weight 150w solar panel, throw it out the door, place it on a rack on the ground, and plug the laptop into it :B

[jefe_4x4]

Silver, nice run through of your protocol. It's obvious you have thought about this a lot. Once we
1. added 200W of Solar
2. replaced the kaput converter with one with a charge wizard
3. replaced all the interior bulbs with L.E.D.'s
4. put an aluminum flashing wind shield behind the front half of the fridge vent
we could stop using the fridge on 12v while traveling (the fridge would not stay on prop while moving @ more than 50 mph) and stop using our battery operated lantern at night in the box. We don't use any appliances that suck power like a microwave or Keurig.
On the last couple trips there were zero worries about power consumption.
We have all three, same size group 27, 12v batteries ganged together (with a cut off if we need it) using the two truck batteries and the one in the TC. The only way our set up could go south is if we were camping in a tunnel.
Everyone develops their own power system and renewal. I'm always awed by the lengths that some of the electrical gurus on here go to make it work.
jefe

[silversand]

I think that synthesizing down all the issues that impede long-term boondocking, the show-stopper constraint for us is: black water capacity. For us, this is appx 7 days "out", before one has to run back to "civilization" with tail between legs....to dump the black water tank.

So, the second biggest constraint for long term boondocking, is the food cooling situation. Given the above black water constraint, we need to have cooling for up to 7 days. We can achieve this with our large "Extreme cooler" at $25 CAD, which can easily take us 7 days. Overstock food that needs cooling goes in there (the cooler is kept out of the baking-hot truck cab and in the shade), and we use the ice and ice packs in our 3-way fridge for every-day next-in-line meals. We don't want to open our Extreme cooler till our 3-way fridge stock is depleted. No need to even turn on the 3-way fridge propane. However, it is there if we need it (a break-down way out in middle of nowhere). Also, we transfer some ice from the Extreme cooler into the 3-way fridge at about day 4 (around 1st line food depletion date).

Now, the next constraint is water: our toilet (the largest porta-potti on the market; with an AA battery pack flush system); PLENTY of water in the fresh-water side to do us 7 days. We also carry some jerry cans of water for dish-washing: plenty for 7 days boondocking (no need to run the 12V water pump). We have a D-cell electric shower for an outside shower, if need be (drawing from our dish-washing water reserve). We carry drinking water gallons for drinking (more than enough for 7 days).

....by this point, we haven't used nary 0.1 amp-hours of battery power....

OK...now, we need light at night: both outside and inside camper, we have LED lighting (I keep 1 incandescent bulb for ambiance lighting...used rarely). We need only 1 or 2 LED lights at night for reading....for max 1.5 hours. Our cell phones and hand-held radios get charged with a portable lithium power-pack if need be (good for 7 days at least). We have smart-phone music (plug in the head-phones). We never use the roof-top power vent....even when it was 107 in the desert (we sit in the shade outside under the awning; and at night the desert gets quite cool).

....by this point, our house AGM Group 27s are barely used (!). So, we may splurge, and charge a laptop from the house system. Still, nearly nothing used in the house 12V storage. So, between the truck batteries (we have 2 of those) and everything, we're drowning in excess 12V capacity....at 7 days. No solar. We can re-charge the house system as we drive at the finish of the 7-day period to empty the toilet black water (and, empty our 12 gallon portable gray water tank, too).

So, so far, solar would be a real luxury; something fun to tool around with for fun. I would only get a panel that I could move around (with small light-weight balsa-wood stand) to keep perfectly aligned with the sun very few hours, and toss it under the dinette seat cushions when we move...

On edit:

I was also getting by fine with my 2 group 24's. That was until I recently added an inverter to run the coffee maker. Of course we got by for years using other methods but I like the convenience of my baby keurig.

...we just boil water, and pour it into our 1.2 liter bodum (French press), and we have a huge quantity of coffee...no electrics needed 😄

[hedge]

I was also getting by fine with my 2 group 24's. That was until I recently added an inverter to run the coffee maker. Of course we got by for years using other methods but I like the convenience of my baby keurig.

I also added 200w of Solar to recover the batteries over the day.

The other reason is I enjoy tinkering with this stuff I added a battery monitor as well that's interesting to play with.

I guess it's my hobby so I don't mind spending a few bucks on it... I've certainly had more expensive hobbies

[_DJ_1]

100 watts of solar, 2 Trojan SC 225s and Honda 2000 because I have a POJ Dometic compressor fridge. I even take blue ice blocks out of the freezer at night and put in the fridge so I can turn it off at night. Still requires 2 hours of genny time per day with the house charger on the house battery and a stand alone charger on the 2nd battery. All this just to keep my beer under 40. Other Domtetic owners don't have this problem but I got a bad one and Dometic said TOUGH. This is the fridge my Dealer recommended. I paid them a small fortune for it and the installation. Yes, this is a sore subject for me!!! LOL

[cewillis]

DesertDave100 wrote:
Compressor fridge, and hate generators with a passion. Thus solar and big battery bank. Never have used hookups, stay away from such places. To each his own.

My answer exactly. 540ah at 12v, 2 gauge alternator charging, ~125w solar = no problems, no worries, no concern ever about electrical energy.

[DesertDave100]

Compressor fridge, and hate generators with a passion. Thus solar and big battery bank. Never have used hookups, stay away from such places. To each his own.

[Ventura_Dogman]

I have two 6v Lifelines so I have plenty of power to run the furnace when winter camping. Other than that, lighter duty batteries would have sufficed.