Opinions on new F350 Diesel

[cekkk]

While I really love my old dually, I'm not getting any younger. So if I am ever going to have a new truck, now is a pretty good time. I've run across a 2015 SRW that a manager has been driving for about 7000 miles. It's a Platinum with everything. Any comments relating to reliability of this still fairly new engine, or any problems with the model generally?

List is nearly 68k, asking is nearly 54K.

FYI, it's a Ford or nothing.

[ricatic]

cekkk wrote:
RICATIC, car manufacturers never learn, it's daja vu all over again. I bought a new '80 Olds wagon with the almost-a-diesel engine. It croaked at 50,000 miles, but Olds replaced it for just a few bucks. The replacement went south at almost the same mileage.

But I heard over and over that Chevy and Buick owners were just pointed to the 3/36 warranty.

...not sure I understand the comparison...and I owned a Chevy pickup with that Olds diesel in it....ran it for 7 years and 140000 miles...never left me stranded....I did rebuild the injector pump once...

There is little to dispute the poor quality of the Bosch CP4.xx series pumps. Under pressure from the NHTSA, VW now warranties them all...why...because the NHTSA told them to fix them all or recall them all...Porsche called the CP4.xx in the Cayenne "delicate or fragile"...I do not remember which it was...

GM has fixed theirs but somehow Ford has been able to screw their customers and get away with it....Shameful...

Regards

[cekkk]

RICATIC, car manufacturers never learn, it's daja vu all over again. I bought a new '80 Olds wagon with the almost-a-diesel engine. It croaked at 50,000 miles, but Olds replaced it for just a few bucks. The replacement went south at almost the same mileage.

But I heard over and over that Chevy and Buick owners were just pointed to the 3/36 warranty.

[ricatic]

The Mad Norsky provided a lot of accurate information regarding the Bosch CP 4.xx HPFP debacles...

I started a long lived and much read thread here at RVnet regarding my experience with he CP4.2 fuel pump and Ford's shameful treatment of loyal customers.If anyone is interested, just search for Ford 6.7 shameful event...the facts provided by me are true, regardless of the shameless schilling by the "Blue Koolaid Crowd...

I would like to refute a supposed fact regarding the "fuel flow valve" and rust...the rust does not have to be in the fuel stream components to have Ford shamelessly refuse warranty...they will reject even if the mounting boss that is not in the fuel stream and never sees fuel has any discoloration on it...

GM uses the same pump, had similar failure rates but they warranty their failures. In fact, of all the manufacturers that use the CP4.xx warranty the failures no questions asked...except for one...Ford...just the facts

Regards

[The_Mad_Norsky]

cekkk wrote:
So far the one concern I have is the fuel pump that was raised in the first replies. What was the problem, total failure, partial fuel starving?

This has been partially answered by previous posters.

I will add another aspect to the fuel pump debacle both Ford and GM are having with the original series CP 4.2 Bosch pump installed in 2011-2014 Ford 6.7L diesels and in I believe 2012 + GM Duramax 6.6L engines.

First, the CP 4.2 means it is a twin piston pump. There is also the Bosch CP 4.1 pump, a single piston pump, and it is used on a lot of VW and other makes of diesel cars.

Unfortunately, both pumps can have the same lousy results, completely destroying themselves sending shrapnel throughout the fuel system and expensive repairs.

There seems to be two primary causes for this.

First is the diesel fuel itself. These pumps rely on the fuel for lubrication, as it is their only source of lubrication.

Unfortunately, Bosch, from Germany, designed the pump to be lubricated by European diesel fuel.

Well European (and Canadian standards) are both higher than United States standards for lubricity in the fuel. Their standards are at a level of 460 HFRR, which is an indication of wear standards for the fuel metal on metal I believe.

US standards in the meantime are at the 520 HFRR level, which means it is really not good enough for these pumps. So you see many folks asking about lubricity additives.

Ford, in their owners manual, recommended their lubricity additive PM-22A for these motors. I used it religiously on mine. EVERY FILL UP!

Second is the pump design itself. A twin piston (or single, dependent on which version/vehicle you have) which runs about twice the RPM's of your engine. So at 2,000 RPM's in my previous Ford 6.7L engine, that pump was running at 4,000 RPM's.

A lot of the pump is aluminum. Central crankshaft running two connecting rods to twin pistons, one each side in the classic V arrangement.

And there is the major problem. There is no wrist pin connecting the piston itself to the connecting rod.

So in some cases, the piston separates from the connecting rod and at 4,000 RPM's it starts to hammer itself to shreds every time they slam back together.

And you end up with shrapnel throughout the fuel system. And no warning that it is going bad until your check engine light comes on and the vehicle stalls.

One other related problem exists. Ambient temperature and fuel levels in your fuel tank. Most failures are recorded in the hottest months of the year, or just after those hot months have ended.

Add to that these pumps return fuel to the fuel tank which is much warmer than the tank diesel itself. So owners have been warned to NOT let the fuel level drop too low before refueling so as to avoid heating the fuel in the tank to too high a level.

Now after all that, appears from research I have read on that the failure rate for these pumps in both Ford and GM engines is about 3 percent of total vehicles.

Canada has had failures too, but it seems at a lower rate than in the US due to their improved diesel fuel standards.

Sure gives one confidence though. NOT!

This still does not change my original thoughts to the Ford 6.7L engine. I think it is a good engine, but both Ford and GM really got short changed by Bosch on the fuel pumps.

[jus2shy]

cekkk wrote:
So far the one concern I have is the fuel pump that was raised in the first replies. What was the problem, total failure, partial fuel starving?

There has been many different types of issues. The greatest issue is that the pump has no tolerance for water in fuel. That's why the fuel filter setup is pretty robust on the Fords (I personally wonder how GM gets away with only 1 fuel filter as RAM and Ford both use 2). I'm not sure how much water needs to get into the fuel before it starts messing up the pump, but it isn't much. Standard procedure when checking the pump is to pull the flow control valve out and see if there's any rust developing on it. There have been plenty of individuals that did have rust on this valve, and Ford surmises that if there's rust on the valve, water was in the fuel, therefore bad fuel is the cause of the failure, not an engineering issue. So therefore, the owner is left flipping the bill (this is what lead to the Ford not honoring the warranty comment). However, the question that brings up is how does fuel get past the filters? In many cases, the owners that had this issue that posted online almost unanimously state that they never received a water-in-fuel warning in which the pump has sensors to detect. So take it for what it's worth.

There have been owners that dumped some DEF into the fuel tank on accident and ran their truck and had catastrophic failure as well. Very expensive mistake to make if your insurance doesn't pick it up. So some issues are user caused some aren't.

The primary issue is the failure mode of the pump. On the older Bosch CP3's and previous pumps the manufacturers used, failure of the HPFP would send shrapnel back into the tank. The new CP4 pump sends shrapnel into the fuel lines and injectors. So if the pump dies, it takes all the injectors with it.

This was one of the aspects that made me shy away from Ford, that and my wife subjectively did not like the interior as much as another competitor.

[Slick_Rick]

I've got only 3000 miles on my 2015 F350 Lariat CCSB PSD but so far so good. Love the engine brake/tow mode. I've no experience with other diesels but this thing tows great! The MSRP was a little north of $65k and I got it for about $55k out the door (X plan). New truck, only 20 miles.
That price seems a bit high for a used truck, haggle with em!
Now I've gotta buy an ESP plan...
Good luck!
Rick

[Targa]

Total fuel system replacements that ford did not like honoring their warranty on.

[cekkk]

So far the one concern I have is the fuel pump that was raised in the first replies. What was the problem, total failure, partial fuel starving?

[noteven]

JIMNLIN wrote:
JYI Ford markets the F350 SRW with a 10000 GVWR and a 11200 GVWR in the exact same truck.
The F350 SRW also come with three different RAWR from 6290/6730/7000 lbs.

Make sure it has the higher 11500 GVWR with the higher 7000 RAWR if your hauling heavy.

No way can the 10000 GVWR and the 11200 GVWR be the same truck! Those numbers are the result of careful engineering and testing...nothing to do with driver licensing guvvermint nonsense...

and besides that 10000 GVWR sticker alters the molecular structure of what appears to be identical parts found in the 11200 GVWR truck... making them prone to catas...castrat... a big scary collapse...

[FishOnOne]

I have a '12 Super Duty CC 4x4 6.7 PSD and overall I'm really impressed with this truck at 2.5 years old and ~57k miles and not a single glitch. The fuel economy is very impressive for a DPF equipped truck and the power is down right scary.

My truck is a Lariat and the leather is holding up really good, no interior squeeks or rattles... Just an impressive truck!

[C-Bears]

I could be wrong, but if the truck has never been titled wouldn't the factory warranty start when you bought it? In other words, wouldn't the bumper-to-bumper go to 42,000?

IMHO I really wouldn't mind if the truck had 7,000 miles on it. You won't start getting the best MPG until later anyway. With mine my MPG started going up around 30,000 miles.

If you want to negotiate an ESP with them that is one idea, just keep in mind that there are Ford dealers online (Troy, OHIO) that will get you to 125,000 for under $2,000.

Maybe get the maintenance package thrown in so you don't pay for oil changes for the first 45,000 miles.

[TECMike]

For that money, I would want a new one which had all the miles put on it by me and my wife. Not someone else.

Then you would know what you have got and how it has been handled since new!

As mentioned above, why spend that much money on essentially a used truck?

[Targa]

Just shopping around, the msrp for that truck new is $65-68,000, you could get that 7,000 mile truck brand spanking new for the price he is asking and be the one to put those first 7,000 miles on it. Anyway, just my .02.

[cekkk]

I love to negotiate and usually walk away from a number of dealers before finding one that doesn't expect to make its month off of me. This will probably be my last truck purchase, so it's got to have all the bells and whistles my kids' inheritance can pay for!