Payload: Ram 2500 Diesel vs. Ram 3500 Diesel

[otrfun]

So much debate about the artificially low payload on the Ram 2500 diesels. That the low payload is only due to the 10,000 lb. GVWR. That the Ram 2500 diesel shares the same frame and drivetrain (differential, wheel bearings, etc.) as the Ram 3500 diesel (~11,700 lb. GVWR) which has approx. 1,700 lbs. more payload. The only difference between the two truck appears to be the rear suspension (Ram 2500's coil vs. the Ram 3500's leaf).

These numbers and differences aside, has anyone actually measured the total AVAILABLE suspension travel, empty vs. loaded to maximum payload, on these two trucks? IMO, these simple measurements would settle this whole debate once and for all.

For example, let's say, hypothetically, the Ram 2500 diesel has 5" of available rear suspension travel empty and only 2" remaining when loaded to maximum payload (~2200 lbs.). Again, hypothetically, let's say the Ram 3500 diesel has the same 5"/2" difference when loaded to its maximum payload of ~4000 lbs. If this was the case, then clearly there's more at play then some artificial GVWR.

But, then again, if the Ram 2500 diesel was loaded to the Ram 3500's maximum payload of 4000 lbs. (using the above scenario) and still had 2" of remaining suspension travel then it would seem the 10,000 lb. GVWR, could very well be "artificial".

Thoughts?

[Me_Again]

rhagfo wrote:

billyray50 wrote:

Me Again wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:


I would hands down go with the leaf springs. The problem with the coil suspension is the springs are mounted inward from the frame requiring using a sway bar to supplement and the leafs are mounted outwards of the frame giving the truck much better stability.

There's a reason the 3500 stayed with leaf springs.

Give that man a cigar! Chris

X2 Exactly why I went leaf springs on my 3500.

I would have gone with the Air!

3500 air suspension still has leaf springs.

Chris

[rhagfo]

billyray50 wrote:

Me Again wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:


I would hands down go with the leaf springs. The problem with the coil suspension is the springs are mounted inward from the frame requiring using a sway bar to supplement and the leafs are mounted outwards of the frame giving the truck much better stability.

There's a reason the 3500 stayed with leaf springs.

Give that man a cigar! Chris

X2 Exactly why I went leaf springs on my 3500.

I would have gone with the Air!

[billyray50]

Me Again wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:


I would hands down go with the leaf springs. The problem with the coil suspension is the springs are mounted inward from the frame requiring using a sway bar to supplement and the leafs are mounted outwards of the frame giving the truck much better stability.

There's a reason the 3500 stayed with leaf springs.

Give that man a cigar! Chris

X2 Exactly why I went leaf springs on my 3500.

[biofumes]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

norcalhawk wrote:
Turtle n peeps,

Already checked. All trucks are considered commercial in California...go figure! Trucks 1500, 2500 or 3500...etc., etc., commercial registration comes into play when a it is open in back or with a (Leer type) shell (they are starting to enforce the truck/shell combo now. But, if you carry a Camper secured to your truck capable of "Human Habitation", as California DMV states, a camper that includes: cab over style, cabinets, kitchen units, lights, bath/toilet, you may register it as a RV. DMV: Reg256A You just go to DMV with your truck and camper, they look at it, give their blessing and register your unit as an RV. Hope its as simple as they say...! AAA is even simpler, so I'm told.

You missed my point. Reg differences "can" be substantial in this state going from a 2500 to a 3500 because of GVWR and price. IOW's a 3500 "can" cost you a whole bunch more when time comes to buy that little piece of plastic that stick to your license plate. Most states it does not matter much. This state.................:R

I recommend you check out the differences when buying a truck.

You said it Turtle,thats what we are here for research and information.

[biofumes]

Bedlam wrote:

biofumes wrote:
It's always been my understanding , that a 3/4 ton vs a one ton truck does not have the same frame, the frame itself should be one of the biggest differences between the two.

The cummins forum has a lot of specs and specifics. I have the 4500, and no it does not have the same frame as a 3500, and all the suspension parts are rated for the payload and towing specs. Although, the engine is a 6.7 cummins, even the turbo is another size altogether. Hope that helps.

The same frame is now used between the 2500 and 3500 (there was one or two to years where the 2500 frame was lagging behind the 3500). Your 4500 frame is like my 5500.

BTW: Your Cumins only has 325 hp and 750 lb-ft in your chassis cab. The engine and transmission is identical to the 3500 but is tuned for longer duty cycle at full output with the chassis cab verses pickup.

There are a few tuning options, that fix or can update your Horsepower and torque settings. Its a common mistake the general population can make about my settings, that is why I had them listed on the signature. Updated software to update the horse power and torque to over 900 foot lbs. Here you have the advantages the 4500 suspension, along with updated HP & torque. Hope that clears it up. Like the previous posted stated, we all need all the information we can get from one another.

[norcalhawk]

This is one of the many reasons I join such forums, information, information, information...I will revisit DMV and ask about their(CA)total fees, etc. (10,000 vs. 10,800 GVWR)

[otrfun]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

norcalhawk wrote:
Thanks everybody....things are getting clearer all the time. Less than $100 gets me a 3500...seems like a no brainer, yes!

You might want to check with the DMV on reg costs if you live in the Republic of Kalifornia like I do. :B They can really add up. Years ago my buddies F450 was $1,400/ year for that little plastic sticker. :E

What I recently learned about registering a truck in Arizona:

In AZ, it's my understanding a vehicle owner has the right to declare a gross weight that's appropriate for the way they intend to use the vehicle. I'm not completely sure, but I believe the only caveat is the declared gross weight cannot be lower than the unladen weight of the vehicle.

There are a number of declared gross weight categories in AZ. However, 0-8,000 lbs. ($7.50), 8,001-10,000 lbs. ($36), and 10,001 to 12,000 lbs. ($63), are typically used for most pickup trucks in AZ. There's a mandatory $4 "commercial" fee for 1-ton trucks whether used commercially or personal use. In addition to increased fees for the next higher declared gross weight category, it's important to note (at least for AZ residents) the AZ Lemon Law is not applicable to vehicles with a declared gross weight greater than 10,000 lbs.

[Grit_dog]

biofumes wrote:
I can see your point now. Good to know the 2500 frame was upgraded.
I plan to upgrade the ECM settings to the 900 lbs of torque, once the warranty expires, but very happy with he current setup now, the airbrake works great.

Not an air brake, it's an exhaust brake. Although some of the add on e brakes for the older trucks without a factory turbo brake are air actuated.
Only year 2500 and 3500 were a different chassis was 2013 when the 2500s still had the old (same as 3rd Gens) chassis and the 3500s got the redesigned chassis. 2014 and up are the same again save for suspension.

[biofumes]

I can see your point now. Good to know the 2500 frame was upgraded.
I plan to upgrade the ECM settings to the 900 lbs of torque, once the warranty expires, but very happy with he current setup now, the airbrake works great.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

norcalhawk wrote:
Turtle n peeps,

Already checked. All trucks are considered commercial in California...go figure! Trucks 1500, 2500 or 3500...etc., etc., commercial registration comes into play when a it is open in back or with a (Leer type) shell (they are starting to enforce the truck/shell combo now. But, if you carry a Camper secured to your truck capable of "Human Habitation", as California DMV states, a camper that includes: cab over style, cabinets, kitchen units, lights, bath/toilet, you may register it as a RV. DMV: Reg256A You just go to DMV with your truck and camper, they look at it, give their blessing and register your unit as an RV. Hope its as simple as they say...! AAA is even simpler, so I'm told.

You missed my point. Reg differences "can" be substantial in this state going from a 2500 to a 3500 because of GVWR and price. IOW's a 3500 "can" cost you a whole bunch more when time comes to buy that little piece of plastic that stick to your license plate. Most states it does not matter much. This state.................:R

I recommend you check out the differences when buying a truck.

[Bedlam]

biofumes wrote:
It's always been my understanding , that a 3/4 ton vs a one ton truck does not have the same frame, the frame itself should be one of the biggest differences between the two.

The cummins forum has a lot of specs and specifics. I have the 4500, and no it does not have the same frame as a 3500, and all the suspension parts are rated for the payload and towing specs. Although, the engine is a 6.7 cummins, even the turbo is another size altogether. Hope that helps.

The same frame is now used between the 2500 and 3500 (there was one or two to years where the 2500 frame was lagging behind the 3500). Your 4500 frame is like my 5500.

BTW: Your Cumins only has 325 hp and 750 lb-ft in your chassis cab. The engine and transmission is identical to the 3500 but is tuned for longer duty cycle at full output with the chassis cab verses pickup.

[spoon059]

norcalhawk wrote:
Thanks everybody....things are getting clearer all the time. Less than $100 gets me into a 3500 over the 2500...seems like a no brainer, yes!

In your case, I don't see a difference. Like someone else said, you will always have a load in the back, so the ride difference between the coils and leafs will be minimal. Registration might be an issue because of the higher GVWR. Also some communities have parking regulations with 10K GVWR being the cutoff.

Still, all things considered when buying new, hard to turn down an additional thousand lbs of payload for only a couple dollars more...

[spoon059]

biofumes wrote:
It's always been my understanding , that a 3/4 ton vs a one ton truck does not have the same frame, the frame itself should be one of the biggest differences between the two.

Same frame. Only physical difference between a 2500 and SRW 3500 is the rear suspension and badging on the door.

[biofumes]

It's always been my understanding , that a 3/4 ton vs a one ton truck does not have the same frame, the frame itself should be one of the biggest differences between the two.

The cummins forum has a lot of specs and specifics. I have the 4500, and no it does not have the same frame as a 3500, and all the suspension parts are rated for the payload and towing specs. Although, the engine is a 6.7 cummins, even the turbo is another size altogether. Hope that helps.