Ram 2500 6.4L 12.5K Ike Gauntlet

[ordually]

TFLTruck did a Ike Gauntlet tow test of a 2015 Ram 6.4L 4.10.

Identical axle ratio and load (12.5K) to the 2015 Chevy 2500 they tested a few months ago. The Chevy gives up ~50hp and lb-ft. Surprising outcome.

[katoom400]

dreeder wrote:
Huh, other than the cylinder deactivation, I can't see a reason to choose the 6.4 over the 5.7.

I have not driven a 5.7 Hemi, but I do have a Tundra with the 5.7 and it did a awesome job pulling my ~7000lb trailer up a very steep grade leaving the campground last weekend. I was holding 60mph @ ~3000rpm and nobody felt the need to pass me even though I was in the slow lane.

if the Hemi is as good as the I-Force 5.7 then I think it would be a fine choice for a gas motor in a 2500.

The reasons I'm looking at the 6.4 would be the cylinder deactivation when empty (95% of the time for me) and the torque coming on 1000 rpm earlier than the 5.7, leads me to believe it would not have to rev as high climbing grades or off the line.

I did test drive a new 6.4 with 3.73's and I was not impressed with off the line torque compared to the Tundra (4.30's). 4.10 gears probably would have changed that for the Ram.

It's a tough call on the 6.4...fairly new motor, possibly better mileage/torque. the 5.7 is a known commodity and seems to be up to the task. However someone coming off a diesel would likely want as much torque as they could get in a gas motor and I would think the 6.4/4.10 combo would be the better choice for the $1500 difference.

Would I like the 6.7 oil burner? Absolutely, but not for the $8k cost of admission given I'm running unloaded 95% of the time and live in the cold north east. I had a f250 with the 7.3 and it was great when I was towing, but really it was just loud, expensive and a general PIA in the winter months. If I lived and a warmer area, or towed heavy loads more often it would be different.

[ScottG]

RCMAN46 wrote:

ScottG wrote:

blderman wrote:

ordually wrote:
TFLTruck did a Ike Gauntlet tow test of a 2015 Ram 6.4L 4.10.

Identical axle ratio and load (12.5K) to the 2015 Chevy 2500 they tested a few months ago. The Chevy gives up ~50hp and lb-ft. Surprising outcome.

I don't read the article as they weighed the same. I read it as they were within 100lbs of their GCVW. If that is actually the case then the Ram weighed 2,000lbs more. It still doesn't justify that 2nd gear is inadequate but it would definitely make a big difference.

That's a good point. If they weren't loaded the same then the results are meaningless.

It would be nice if everyone would take the time to view the video and pay attention. If you did you would know both trucks were towing the same load with in 100 lbs.

I did watch the Video but I missed that point. So what? That's why we have civil discussions - or at least try to.

[blderman]

ktosv wrote:

ScottG wrote:
That's a good point. If they weren't loaded the same then the results are meaningless.

The following is a direct quote from their write up:

"...the final weigh-in showed that the Ram and Chevy were within 100 pounds of each other..."

Looking at the information the Ram was towing 12,500# and the Chevy was towing 13,000#. The Ram was 2500# under it's stated tow rating and the Chevy was at it.

Does this answer the question from another post in the past couple of weeks on why someone would even consider a GM 6.0L when the 6.4L Ram is available? 😉

I watched the video again this morning and in the video they make it very clear that the trucks total weight are within 100lbs. On the written statement it's not as clear. Ram really dropped the ball with the gear spacing on this rig.

[ordually]

ib516 wrote:
Here's what was added by the guys from TFL in the comments:


Ram Truck “invented” the first gear hold feature – and calibrated it – to avoid gear hunting and driving at excessively high rpm’s.
Ike is a variable grade and we worked hard to develop a calibration that appropriately manages torque on the run and other grades.

We don’t want the truck to rev high for extended periods of time and purposely hold 4,200 rpm.


Seems like there's some designed in limiting by the PCM/ECM going on here.

Interesting. I wonder what the Ram powertrain engineering folks would say about needing to avoid more than a sustained 4200RPM. Cooling limitation? BMEP? Transmission limitation? Rating a motor at 5600 RPM and only using 3/4s of the HP is surprising. I wonder how the PCM would know to enforce limit, as it would be too obvious to do it on the 1-2 upshift, and way too obvious to just pull fuel from the driver when holding in first to bring RPM from say 5000 back to 4200. Perhaps only on the 2-1 downshift then it applies the 4200?

IB516--have you noticed any PCM/ECM limitations along the lines of what Ram described in your towings?

[katoom400]

bringing this over from the other 6.4 thread:

would you really say 2nd gear is the wrong ratio, or is the shift logic a bit off?

Really, would you allow your truck to climb steep incline like that? I know they had to keep all things as equal as they could for the test, but in the real world, are you going to let the truck slow down to 30mph? No! you are going to manually downshift and let the truck rev! The Chevy was certainly at 5k for long periods of time, and that is most likely why it got to the top faster.

A more accurate test would have been to set points along the route where you designate down shifts for both trucks and see how they fair. the fact that the Ram held second for far too long doesn't bother me because I would never have let that happen in the real world.

IMO the only thing you could knock the Ram for is failure to downshift on an tough grade. BIG DEAL!

oh, one more thing for the guys bashing the Ram, watch the Chevy video @ 19:45 they start talking about how the truck should have downshifted and is holding the gear for way to long and they are down to 35mph.

So I would say if you have no clue know how to drive a truck pulling a heavy trailer, you would be better served buying a Chevy as it will downshift for you in case you fell asleep.

and no I'm not a RAM lover, I'm a Tundra guy looking at all the options for my next truck and I really think all of the big 3 are so close you just have to pick the one that appeals to you or fits your needs the most and you can't go wrong.

[jujububbajr]

spoon059 wrote:
I love these threads... This forum is so bi-polar. One minute its about TOWING SAFETY and taking the time to get there, then its MY TRUCK GETS UP THE HILL 14 SECONDS FASTER!!!

You boys need to get together, pick a standard and just adhere to it. If your brand is rated the fastest, then its all about speed. If your brand isn't the fastest then its about safety, mileage and comfort.

Seriously though, every diesel engine out there is substantially better than they were 10 years ago. Every diesel engine in a pickup truck is capable of hauling way more weight than is safe for a pickp truck to pull over this pass. Pick the truck YOU like and buy it. Who cars if Brand 1 is faster by 11 seconds. Chances are you will be stuck behind me in a gas engine half ton struggling to make it to the top anyways, right?

The modern large gas engines that they are putting in their trucks are phenomenal engines. If you are consistently hauling 13K lbs up the side of this mountain, you probably want a diesel anyway. If you are hauling that weight anywhere else in the US, any of those gas engines will do a fine job.

These "reviews" only serve to further inflame the brand war mentality of the ignorant here. At the end of the day, buy what you like and be satisfied with whatever God gave you between your legs. Buying the newest, fastest, highest HP truck won't change what is down there...

Amen brother.

[spoon059]

I love these threads... This forum is so bi-polar. One minute its about TOWING SAFETY and taking the time to get there, then its MY TRUCK GETS UP THE HILL 14 SECONDS FASTER!!!

You boys need to get together, pick a standard and just adhere to it. If your brand is rated the fastest, then its all about speed. If your brand isn't the fastest then its about safety, mileage and comfort.

Seriously though, every diesel engine out there is substantially better than they were 10 years ago. Every diesel engine in a pickup truck is capable of hauling way more weight than is safe for a pickp truck to pull over this pass. Pick the truck YOU like and buy it. Who cars if Brand 1 is faster by 11 seconds. Chances are you will be stuck behind me in a gas engine half ton struggling to make it to the top anyways, right?

The modern large gas engines that they are putting in their trucks are phenomenal engines. If you are consistently hauling 13K lbs up the side of this mountain, you probably want a diesel anyway. If you are hauling that weight anywhere else in the US, any of those gas engines will do a fine job.

These "reviews" only serve to further inflame the brand war mentality of the ignorant here. At the end of the day, buy what you like and be satisfied with whatever God gave you between your legs. Buying the newest, fastest, highest HP truck won't change what is down there...

[Targa]

Huh, other than the cylinder deactivation, I can't see a reason to choose the 6.4 over the 5.7.

[RCMAN46]

ScottG wrote:

blderman wrote:

ordually wrote:
TFLTruck did a Ike Gauntlet tow test of a 2015 Ram 6.4L 4.10.

Identical axle ratio and load (12.5K) to the 2015 Chevy 2500 they tested a few months ago. The Chevy gives up ~50hp and lb-ft. Surprising outcome.

I don't read the article as they weighed the same. I read it as they were within 100lbs of their GCVW. If that is actually the case then the Ram weighed 2,000lbs more. It still doesn't justify that 2nd gear is inadequate but it would definitely make a big difference.

That's a good point. If they weren't loaded the same then the results are meaningless.

It would be nice if everyone would take the time to view the video and pay attention. If you did you would know both trucks were towing the same load with in 100 lbs.

[RCMAN46]

Do not forget that GM has certified HP ratings and the Rams do not.

I love all the excuses that the Ram people always have when they are beaten.

The Ram HP rating is at 5600 rpm!

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

FishOnOne wrote:
There was only one truck that came in first and then second place was loaded with excuses.

Funny how things never change... Interesting video!

LOL.

Scott you're dead on. That thing de-rated like a big dog. No way should an engine with .4 more liters and 30 more HP get better mileage or get beat up a hill.

[ScottG]

ktosv wrote:

ScottG wrote:
That's a good point. If they weren't loaded the same then the results are meaningless.

The following is a direct quote from their write up:

"...the final weigh-in showed that the Ram and Chevy were within 100 pounds of each other..."

Looking at the information the Ram was towing 12,500# and the Chevy was towing 13,000#. The Ram was 2500# under it's stated tow rating and the Chevy was at it.

Does this answer the question from another post in the past couple of weeks on why someone would even consider a GM 6.0L when the 6.4L Ram is available? 😉

Yep, that's a good clarification - thanks.
Since the RAM is designed to stay in 1st gear under those conditions and Dodge/RAM just love to torque limit in that gear, all that extra power is useless under those conditions.
Idiots. Give a truck lots of power and then neuter it when it needs it.

[ktosv]

ScottG wrote:
That's a good point. If they weren't loaded the same then the results are meaningless.

The following is a direct quote from their write up:

"...the final weigh-in showed that the Ram and Chevy were within 100 pounds of each other..."

Looking at the information the Ram was towing 12,500# and the Chevy was towing 13,000#. The Ram was 2500# under it's stated tow rating and the Chevy was at it.

Does this answer the question from another post in the past couple of weeks on why someone would even consider a GM 6.0L when the 6.4L Ram is available? 😉

[ScottG]

blderman wrote:

ordually wrote:
TFLTruck did a Ike Gauntlet tow test of a 2015 Ram 6.4L 4.10.

Identical axle ratio and load (12.5K) to the 2015 Chevy 2500 they tested a few months ago. The Chevy gives up ~50hp and lb-ft. Surprising outcome.

I don't read the article as they weighed the same. I read it as they were within 100lbs of their GCVW. If that is actually the case then the Ram weighed 2,000lbs more. It still doesn't justify that 2nd gear is inadequate but it would definitely make a big difference.

That's a good point. If they weren't loaded the same then the results are meaningless.

[FishOnOne]

There was only one truck that came in first and then second place was loaded with excuses.

Funny how things never change... Interesting video!