RAM EV

[FishOnOne]

Looks like RAM is full in on the EV movement. One thing interesting is RAM followed Fords design logic in that their EV truck looks similar to their ICE truck, unlike GM made their EV trucks looks totally different than their ICE trucks.

Link

Link2

[pianotuna]

CWilson,

Thanks for the information.

Goody that you wish to pollute the planet, while the oil companies make billions of dollars while being subsidized by the government.

[CWilson]

pianotuna wrote:
I happened to go to the CAA site today and clicked on a link for BEV's available for sale in Canada. I was pleasantly surprised to see over 100 different vehicles.

The lowest price was 39,498 cdn. Cheapest was the Leaf, and next in line was the Bolt EV LT @ 40,797

Goody!

You can get a Kia Soul EV Premium for 43,095 cdn.
You can also get a Kia Soul EX Premium with the ICE for 29,733 cdn.

If you want to pay 31% more to have an Electric powertrain have at it.

BTW the website you reference is not accurate, A Kia Soul EV Premium starts at 45,933 cdn, not the 43,095 the website states. And a Bolt or Leaf starts out at more than the website states also.

[pianotuna]

I happened to go to the CAA site today and clicked on a link for BEV's available for sale in Canada. I was pleasantly surprised to see over 100 different vehicles.

The lowest price was 39,498 cdn. Cheapest was the Leaf, and next in line was the Bolt EV LT @ 40,797

[Reisender]

vern kelly wrote:
But the torque is not not 400 foot pound at a measly 1500 RPMs with 450 at 2500! Now that is a long stroke gasser! The Hemi is great, towed horse trailers with one and had a direct comparison with mine. The transmission was fantastic too! The cummins diesel was the best though (2016) and loved the exhaust braking and auto leveling feature.

Hope their EV version competes with Ford despite all the issues.

Good morning. I think it will. More specifically it will probably exceed the existing first generation ford lightning.
But in 2025 for us set to release the second generation lightning. There hasn’t been a lot of leaks on specs but my guess is it will be a significant step up. And they will probably have ramped production significantly by then….if they can get enough batteries.

Should be interesting. The Ram EV shape is growing on me. I would like to see an aerodynamic coMparison of it and the Cybertruck.

Cheers.

[vern_kelly]

But the torque is not not 400 foot pound at a measly 1500 RPMs with 450 at 2500! Now that is a long stroke gasser! The Hemi is great, towed horse trailers with one and had a direct comparison with mine. The transmission was fantastic too! The cummins diesel was the best though (2016) and loved the exhaust braking and auto leveling feature.

Hope their EV version competes with Ford despite all the issues.

[NamMedevac_70]

well said Vern Kelly.

On another note I miss my 2008 2500 Dodge Ram V10. However my 2014 Ram 1500 with 5.7Hemi has about same HP and torque ratings, so everything good to go. Owned 4 Ram trucks and now there are 3.

[vern_kelly]

Added curb weight is a big problem for trucks because it robs payload, to stay within acceptable Gross Vehicle weight ratings which in turn affect registration fees and insurance price.

example: what happens when the EV truck rear ends the Cooper Mini with that extra 1 to 1.5K!

I goofed on the F350 Dually payload. its over 7K for the 2wd. Over 4K for the SWR version. Sorry about that!

[Reisender]

Golden_HVAC wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
Without detailed specifics, RAM is essentially saying all your EV truck concerns (Specific shot at the F150 Lightning) will be a non issue with their EV truck. This truck maybe so good it's forcing Ford's hand to redesign their Lightning already.

It takes Ford 5 years to go from a design to produce the tooling to install that tooling in a factory to actual production of a new vehicle. So if the 2025 F-150 EV is coming out in September of 2024, then 5 year before (September of 2019) is when Ford decided what it will look like and started to change the design from a computer drawing into the tooling they need to produce the truck.

By January of 2021, Ford knew what the 2025 F-150 looks like and has the tool and die makers producing that stuff. Ford could make a minor change, such as changing from a 130 to a 150 KW battery pack at this point, but by the spring of 2024, it will be to late to make such a change. And they want something new to put into the 2026 model refresh, so they might not want to start out with a 150 KW battery option until the 2026 model year update.

Ram is making a ridiculous 190 and optional 230 KW battery pack. By using 8 bolt rims, it seems to have a over 8,500 GVWR, so the highest of all the Big 3 at this point. Towing a fifth wheel is actually going to be possible. With the battery cell cost of about $150 per KW, that is about $15,000 for the 100 KW battery pack, twice as much for this size truck, no wonder they will not give out the total price! Maybe RAM is hoping that the price of batteries will drop below $100 per KW by 2025.

People towing with a Rivian and Lightning are getting about 1/2 of the rated mileage when not towing. So the 500 mile range, if they actually reach that, expect about 200 - 250 miles while towing a travel trailer that is lower profile, and a little less in a fifth wheel that is taller and more wind! That is still acceptable, as your can charge it very quickly because it is 800 volt battery, and can get about 200 amps X 800 volts or 160 KW into the battery - so a 30 - 45 minute charge will fill it a lot.

I think that most cars are currently limited to 400 volts from the charger, and the power cord is limited to only about 300 amps maximum.

The RAM has some great specs. I just wish they had come up with the design before 2020. And could have it in production by the end of 2023. But as the superbowl ad says "We do not want premature electrification".

I also think Ford thought the EV F-150 would not be popular, and that only 10,000 a year might be sold, and might end up collecting dust on the parking lots. Where they wrong with that prediction!

Lets hope that Ford has a heavy duty F-250 EV truck planned for 2026! I think they will need it!

Fred.

Hi Fred. Yah. The majority of EV’s are 400 volt architecture and peak out at 250 kw (although we briefly see 254 or 256 for the first minute or two when below 20 percent charge). There are a few manufacturers with 800 volt architecture but although they theoretically can charge at 350 kw they are presently peaking out at 270 kw. 350 kw chargers are not really super common out there either. Electrify America and Electrify Canada put in some 350 kw machines (typically 1 out of 4) and the new Tesla V4 installations will all be 350 kw machines. But presently not a ton of 350 kw machines out there.

The cyber truck is going to be an anomaly. It can apparently charge on the new tesla megachargers which are 750 kw to 1000 kw machines. But they are presently only found at private truck depots that use tesla semis. Unknown what speed they charge at although it’s at least 350 kw and rumour says 500 kw. Rumour also says the largest Cybertruck battery pack is 180 kWh. The aerodynamics will probably allow it to go pretty far though. Time will tell.

Cheers.

[Golden_HVAC]

FishOnOne wrote:
Without detailed specifics, RAM is essentially saying all your EV truck concerns (Specific shot at the F150 Lightning) will be a non issue with their EV truck. This truck maybe so good it's forcing Ford's hand to redesign their Lightning already.

It takes Ford 5 years to go from a design to produce the tooling to install that tooling in a factory to actual production of a new vehicle. So if the 2025 F-150 EV is coming out in September of 2024, then 5 year before (September of 2019) is when Ford decided what it will look like and started to change the design from a computer drawing into the tooling they need to produce the truck.

By January of 2021, Ford knew what the 2025 F-150 looks like and has the tool and die makers producing that stuff. Ford could make a minor change, such as changing from a 130 to a 150 KW battery pack at this point, but by the spring of 2024, it will be to late to make such a change. And they want something new to put into the 2026 model refresh, so they might not want to start out with a 150 KW battery option until the 2026 model year update.

Ram is making a ridiculous 190 and optional 230 KW battery pack. By using 8 bolt rims, it seems to have a over 8,500 GVWR, so the highest of all the Big 3 at this point. Towing a fifth wheel is actually going to be possible. With the battery cell cost of about $150 per KW, that is about $15,000 for the 100 KW battery pack, twice as much for this size truck, no wonder they will not give out the total price! Maybe RAM is hoping that the price of batteries will drop below $100 per KW by 2025.

People towing with a Rivian and Lightning are getting about 1/2 of the rated mileage when not towing. So the 500 mile range, if they actually reach that, expect about 200 - 250 miles while towing a travel trailer that is lower profile, and a little less in a fifth wheel that is taller and more wind! That is still acceptable, as your can charge it very quickly because it is 800 volt battery, and can get about 200 amps X 800 volts or 160 KW into the battery - so a 30 - 45 minute charge will fill it a lot.

I think that most cars are currently limited to 400 volts from the charger, and the power cord is limited to only about 300 amps maximum.

The RAM has some great specs. I just wish they had come up with the design before 2020. And could have it in production by the end of 2023. But as the superbowl ad says "We do not want premature electrification".

I also think Ford thought the EV F-150 would not be popular, and that only 10,000 a year might be sold, and might end up collecting dust on the parking lots. Where they wrong with that prediction!

Lets hope that Ford has a heavy duty F-250 EV truck planned for 2026! I think they will need it!

Fred.

[Grit_dog]

Cptnvideo wrote:
There will also have to be additional registration fees imposed to offset the loss of revenue of taxes on fuel.

Operating an EV will not be a cheap proposition once or if they take over as the majority.
This is just the baiting period. Once you get the net full of keepers, hang on to your wallet when the power bills and road taxes show up!

[Cptnvideo]

There will also have to be additional registration fees imposed to offset the loss of revenue of taxes on fuel.

[otrfun]

vern kelly wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Interesting, 8 bolt axles/wheels and 2700 lbs. of payload. 14k tow capacity.

Also, the airbag suspension, I assume, probably has a "low-rider" mode which reduces drag to extend range on the freeway.

Pretty impressive. It'll be very interesting to see how far it can tow 14k though.

Also cannot find any publication of the curb weight. It must be a very heavy battery pack to boast that kind of range which will affect registration fees and insurance rates negatively. (GVWR rating)Price tag must be very high and charge time.

The Ford EV weighs over 6500, and the gmc hummer an obscene +9000 pounds which is almost as much as my 1998 Ram with my 10 foot Lance camper on board!

A new F350 dually curb weight is in the 7200 lb range (gas) as a comparison with well over 4000 pounds payload capacity.

I see the added weight as more of a positive than negative. Yes, bigger batteries means more weight, but more importantly it means more range. Rather doubt the added weight will be a stability issue---battery packs are generally positioned very low in the chassis. EV motors produce massive amounts of torque and HP, so pushing this additional weight around is certainly not an issue. The added momentum should improve regenerative braking. I see more pros than cons.

As for registration fees, with various levels of govt pushing for a quick transition to EV's, I'd be surprised if they penalized EV truck owners over weight. If anything, to incentivize the fastest possible transition, I could see registration fees for EV's decreasing, while registration fees for FF (fossil fuel) vehicles increase.

You mentioned charge times. I believe it's a legitimate concern. It only takes a few min to fuel up an empty FF vehicle. I believe this will be the most difficult issue for manufacturers to resolve to the satisfaction of current FF vehicle owners.

[Grit_dog]

time2roll wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
I’m not sure why you are so adamant in your defense of EVs as TVs. The simple fact is they aren’t ready for prime time for the vast majority of users, and won’t be for the foreseeable future.

Can people get excited about the additional capabilities of the EV RAM vs the competition without getting criticized?

Is there not enough anger over in the gas vs diesel thread?

Where have you been?
No one’s even posted in that thread in like a year an a half…

[vern_kelly]

otrfun wrote:
Interesting, 8 bolt axles/wheels and 2700 lbs. of payload. 14k tow capacity.

Also, the airbag suspension, I assume, probably has a "low-rider" mode which reduces drag to extend range on the freeway.

Pretty impressive. It'll be very interesting to see how far it can tow 14k though.

Also cannot find any publication of the curb weight. It must be a very heavy battery pack to boast that kind of range which will affect registration fees and insurance rates negatively. (GVWR rating)Price tag must be very high and charge time.

The Ford EV weighs over 6500, and the gmc hummer an obscene +9000 pounds which is almost as much as my 1998 Ram with my 10 foot Lance camper on board!

A new F350 dually curb weight is in the 7200 lb range (gas) as a comparison with well over 4000 pounds payload capacity.

[propchef]

Bionic Man wrote:


How many units comprise “a whack load”? Because in all of my travels I’ve only seen one EV towing a trailer. That was a Tesla towing a 23’ wake boat in Boulder CO, and the owner said he tows from town a very short distance to the lake.

I’m not sure why you are so adamant in your defense of EVs as TVs. The simple fact is they aren’t ready for prime time for the vast majority of users, and won’t be for the foreseeable future.

We have a "whackload" here in NORCAL. I see them almost daily...towing. I live just off CA 101 at the Mendo line and it's RV central here, with Cloverdale (our little town) marked as a rest stop on many NAV units and software. They park across the street at the park and have lunch. We also have a KOA and a Thousand Oaks campground (avoid this one).

If you haven't seen them, it's because you haven't noticed. I see more every day.

The simple fact is they aren’t ready for prime time for the vast majority of users

This has been said over and over. No one's arguing, no one has suggested (that I've seen) that an EV should be pulling a 5th wheel or a larger TT for 500 miles. CLEARLY, EVs don't currently have the range but that doesn't mean much at the rate we're improving batteries and charging capabilities. The towing range isn't touted as one of the benefits. Lack of maintenance, performance, and total cost of ownership is still advantageous enough for many to happily switch to EVs.