Ram Payloads- Seriously|||

[dougk53]

Just for giggles on a rainy day while camping went to look at Ram 2500's. Presently have the combination in my signature and it does very well. After a detailed explanation of my requirements the salesman proceeds to bring out trucks that have no bearing on what I was interested in. While the trucks were out I took a look at payloads and was blown away. A 6.4 Hemi Power wagon had a payload of 1700# and a Cummins Laramie had a payload of 1450#. I am well aware of optioning affecting payload and other factors but I am having a hard time understanding anyone purchasing a $66k diesel truck and not being able to do anything with it but carry some 2x4's and plywood. People earn their money and can spend it how they wish but personally I have difficulty seeing a burgeoning market for such vehicles But I am more then likely wrong. Also I am aware of RAWR being a consideration and that the Cummins will pull but seeing numbers that don't even equal my F150 left me at a loss.

Doug

[Cummins12V98]

NC open your drivers side door. What does the tag show for FAWR? Are your tires LT235/80R 17?

I will be curious what your weights are now with full fuel, occupants etc. I sure hope you are not over 14k on your 6 tires!!!

[Me_Again]

I will again make the point about buying new or upgrading trailer when one already has a TV. I towed way over the ratings on my 2001.5 RAM for years, as I had the truck and upgraded to a larger trailer. When we bought a new truck in Sept 2015 it was rated enough for that trailer and the next one. Well 8 months later we purchased another trailer!!! Stuff happens.

[NC_Hauler]

Yeah they would Ron.. they just don't want to even hear about towing 15K and upward with a HDH or MDH.... they're IS no arguing with them or discussing it.. They ARE right, NEVER WRONG... Then they all gang up on you to where you just have to leave.. This is the majority... there are a handful or less that don't think they're smarter than you and will listen and agree on weights that the 1 ton dually can handle.

On edit: I was told that FAWR was raised from 6K to 6.5K in 16 ?.

My truck minus only the 5er was a total of 9440#.
Drive axle. 3940# rated 9750.
Steer axle. 5500# rated 6500

Across scales with 5er connected and loaded
Steer axle. 5600... under FAWR by 900#
Drive axle . 8200. Under FAWR by 1575#
Gross weight 13,800# ( under GVWR of 14K by 200#)

Trailer axle= 14,420# + 100# added to front axle from 5er
+ 4260# added to rear axle by 5er
Pin weight. 4360#.
Trailer axle weight 14,420+ pin weigh, 18,780 #( we're lighter than last time we weighed Will weigh again in Asheville

GROSS WEIGHT is 28,220, 10,880 under trucks 39,100# GCWR.
N
Under all weight recommendations
FAWR under by 900#
RAWR under by 1550#

[ShinerBock]

I hope no one gets your tires for a SRW 2500/3500. Only 3,085 lbs max load for a single? That would drop my rear GAWR from 6,500 lbs to 6,170 lbs.

[Cummins12V98]

"Escapees forum thinks you need MDT or HDT to tow 15K or more!! "

They really would not like my load!!!

Please re check your front axle rating, I am fairly certain it's 6,000#. At 6,500# the two front tires would be overloaded.

[NC_Hauler]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"They believe you need a DRW one ton to tow 12,000#. "

You don't??? :B

Escapees forum thinks you need MDT or HDH to tow 15K or more!! Some even say you need one to tow 12K!!! It's there for the research.. I disagree with them.. They're philosophy is they get the truck MUCH cheaper than a new or newer used 3500 Dually, though, by the time they've customized, or fixed one up to tow, buy the Smart car that I commonly see hauled around by the HDH, and you pay insurance and pay for both, can't use them to go most places and can be hard to enter and exit, I don't see the benefits, unless you're going to tow something REALLY heavy.. My 5er weighs in at 18,250# and I'm under all weights, even the hating GVWR RATING. I thing the 250/2500's are under rated as I believe the 3500 Dually is also.. I understand why..

[NC_Hauler]

Grit dog wrote:

CampingN.C. wrote:

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

BillyW wrote:
3/4 ton diesels lack payload due to nothing but politics and taxes. The Power Wagon is a special beast and isn't purchased for payload.

^^^^ This is correct ^^^^^^^

Unfortunately with 2500 trucks you really have to sift through the numbers. To be badged as a 2500 the government limits the GVWR at 10,000 lbs. My RAM is a seriously heavy truck....every component underneath is massive. So, at 10K minus the truck weight there isn't much payload......technically.

Now, if you break down the real numbers it's much different. The FAWR is 5,000 and the RAWR is 6,500. So, in real life that is 11,500 GVWR and about 3,500lbs avaialble on the rear axle.

KJ

Nail hit on the head right there !!

AND that's not even considering that it's the same frame/axle/drivetrain ( the nit pickers will be along shortly on this statement....) as a 3500 dually. Tires and springs are the real limiting factors between the HD pickup models.

The front axle rating on my truck is 6500#, RAWR is 9750#.. NOT the same as a 2500, 3500 Dually Axle weights are higher than on the 2500.
SOOO, if you did what was illustrated by KJ, 6500 FAWR + 9750RAWR = 16,250# GVWR.....but not really... GVWR is 14,000#... GCWR, due to Aisin tranny and 4.10 is 39,100#... FAR from the ratings of the 2500.

[Grit_dog]

^Bingo. Every year, things get incrementally more idiot proofed. Those that don't see this are the ones that need it! Those that tout it likely also fall into that category.

Gonna guess that 30 years ago when I was a wee lad there wasn't a million baby boomers, that never even popped the hood on their Rambler or Pacer, out buying pickups with as much power as some semis at the time and hooking 5 to 10 ton trailers to them and playing Convoy!

So that said, I can see where some of this come from, it not just to keep away the Darwin theory, its to help protect the REST of us too!

[ShinerBock]

burningman wrote:
If you think its bad here you should see the sticker-reading weight police in the Truck Campers section!
When a 2500 and a 3500 have the same axles and same frame, they have the same abilities. You can quote artificial sticker numbers until you're blue.
I've read about guys spending LOTS of money trading in for new trucks just so they are within those sticker numbers, because they think they are unsafe and illegal... but now with a new truck that uses the same actual parts, they feel safe.
Or they'll buy the gas truck because the stickers say it has a higher payload, since the engine weighs less.

Drives me nuts. I have to keep reminding myself it's their money and their truck, who cares.

I wonder what those blue in the face people did before 2001 when vehicles did not come with a tire load sticker? I also wonder if they still go by that number if they get a tire with less of a load rating(which happens a lot) than the stock tires. Is that number on the door still the number these people go by or do they recalculate how much they can carry based on the lower tire rating?

As I have said time and time again, some people need a "Do not touch while engine is running" sticker next to the serpentine belt, while others can see that sticking your fingers in there is probably not a good idea. Some people need a "coffee is hot" warning label, while some are smart enough to see and feel that it is. Some people need a 3500 to tow a 5 x 8 utility trailer, while others don't.

I have enough knowledge and experience to know what my vehicle can safely handle and what ratings are important. I don't need a door sticker or a badge to tell me what my truck can or can't do. Some may still need to go by these stickers until they gain enough experience or knowledge towing to know what their truck can safely do.

[Bird_Freak]

Fast Mopar wrote:

GordonThree wrote:
Power wagon isn't a tow/haul vehicle, it's a rock crawling / off roading vehicle.

What's the payload # on Ford's factory rock crawling package, if they even have one?

I'm happy with the 3300 lbs payload on my 2017 Ram 2500.

A friend has a 2011 Ford Raptor and the payload is around 880-900 lb.

Thats true. My nephew has one and I'm not impressed at all. But it was never advertised or intended to be a tow truck.

[Cummins12V98]

"Or they'll buy the gas truck because the stickers say it has a higher payload, since the engine weighs less."

I find that amusing also. The engine is in the front. The load is MOSTLY carried in the rear.

[IdaD]

burningman wrote:
If you think its bad here you should see the sticker-reading weight police in the Truck Campers section!
When a 2500 and a 3500 have the same axles and same frame, they have the same abilities. You can quote artificial sticker numbers until you're blue.
I've read about guys spending LOTS of money trading in for new trucks just so they are within those sticker numbers, because they think they are unsafe and illegal... but now with a new truck that uses the same actual parts, they feel safe.
Or they'll buy the gas truck because the stickers say it has a higher payload, since the engine weighs less.

Drives me nuts. I have to keep reminding myself it's their money and their truck, who cares.

This guy gets it.

[Flashman]

burningman wrote:
If you think its bad here you should see the sticker-reading weight police in the Truck Campers section!
When a 2500 and a 3500 have the same axles and same frame, they have the same abilities. You can quote artificial sticker numbers until you're blue.
I've read about guys spending LOTS of money trading in for new trucks just so they are within those sticker numbers, because they think they are unsafe and illegal... but now with a new truck that uses the same actual parts, they feel safe.
Or they'll buy the gas truck because the stickers say it has a higher payload, since the engine weighs less.

Drives me nuts. I have to keep reminding myself it's their money and their truck, who cares.

x2

[burningman]

If you think its bad here you should see the sticker-reading weight police in the Truck Campers section!
When a 2500 and a 3500 have the same axles and same frame, they have the same abilities. You can quote artificial sticker numbers until you're blue.
I've read about guys spending LOTS of money trading in for new trucks just so they are within those sticker numbers, because they think they are unsafe and illegal... but now with a new truck that uses the same actual parts, they feel safe.
Or they'll buy the gas truck because the stickers say it has a higher payload, since the engine weighs less.

Drives me nuts. I have to keep reminding myself it's their money and their truck, who cares.

[Me_Again]

mtofell1 wrote:

Me Again wrote:
Again, the question remains, if you are buy new and towing heavy, why not opt for a SRW 3500 vs a 2500. The only people I see defending Ram 2500's as just as capable are people that own one.

I think someone nailed the largest reason.... availability. Every lot has about 10X as many 2500s. If ordering, sure get the 3500. If impatient and wanting a truck now you don't always have a choice.

And if people refused to buy them the dealers would smarten up? OH, I forgot, the sales person said the 250/2500 can tow any 5th wheel you want!