Rivian R1S

[blt2ski]

Sitting next to an SUV with that model designation.
Nice looking rig, appears to be in the same chassis as pickup. No plates out.

Marty

[deltabravo]

blt2ski wrote:
No plates out.

What does that mean?

[JRscooby]

map40 wrote:


Most EVs have an electric clutch (or connect/ disconect) between the wheels and the transmission. They don't have many components but they have a single or in some cases a 2 speed transmission (very simple, nothing like what am ICE has)

I am learning, thank you. I assumed each drive wheel had a motor. If a motor is driving 2, (or more) wheels would require some kind of differential to allow for turns. (ICE, towing spinning at least 1 differential, plus overdriving the driveshaft(s)

Due to the high torque of the electric motors, the traction control systems are much more complex than ICE's and monitor wheel speeds with a much higher frequency and precision.
The same problem happens with the regenerative breaking in snowy/icy condition. It is very easy to loose traction on ice and as it is involuntary (meaning the driver does not press the brake or anything else, it is activated automatically) so the system is monitoring not only the wheel speed independently several thousand times per second, it also triangulates with GPS and accelerometers to ensure the wheels are always "in traction".

I can't see where this would prevent towing a functional vehicle, just turn it off. After all, if the road might be slick any driver that has head on shoulders, not between cheeks will turn off the jakes.

All of this said, the problem is that flat towing something that complex may create unforseen problems, so lawyers said "How many more sales are you going to get by allowing flat towing? Is it really worth the risk?" And the answer was always "No".
There is no inherent technical reason (like the transmission in an ICE), it is simply "Why risk it, we are selling every unit before its built..."

Yes, I can see this issue. But this is not a reason a DIY that knows the systems could not work things out.

I have towed one of my leafs and one of my BMW but just to see how fast did they charge, and o boy did they complained!

Complained? Often gearsets designed to be powered from one end will make noise if driven from the other, and if load is on the other end, spinning faster than

LOL, just thinking as I type I realize that the gearsets, driven backwards, spinning the input, even unloaded, faster than what is normally output, could in fact face same, or more problems as transmission of ICE. I now see why EVs not toads, without designed from start.
Thank you

[map40]

JRscooby wrote:

time2roll wrote:
After a bit more reading... Rivian seems to no longer endorse four-down towing of the vehicles. 😞
Bollinger had made the same comments and then shifted out of the personal market to focus on commercial.
There are no EVs that can be towed on all four wheels that I am aware of.

Can anybody tell what the issue is that would prevent flat towing? For years, ICE cars was the transmission did not lube itself unless the input shaft was spinning. Which implied spin the engine. EVs don't have transmission, so that's no problem. No disconnect between wheel and motor? Well spinning the motor, with no power to it, does no harm, as long does not exceed speed it would normally run. (Going to tow faster than you would drive?) Steering and brakes would be no more complicated than ICE.

Most EVs have an electric clutch (or connect/ disconect) between the wheels and the transmission. They don't have many components but they have a single or in some cases a 2 speed transmission (very simple, nothing like what am ICE has)
Due to the high torque of the electric motors, the traction control systems are much more complex than ICE's and monitor wheel speeds with a much higher frequency and precision.
The same problem happens with the regenerative breaking in snowy/icy condition. It is very easy to loose traction on ice and as it is involuntary (meaning the driver does not press the brake or anything else, it is activated automatically) so the system is monitoring not only the wheel speed independently several thousand times per second, it also triangulates with GPS and accelerometers to ensure the wheels are always "in traction".
All of this said, the problem is that flat towing something that complex may create unforseen problems, so lawyers said "How many more sales are you going to get by allowing flat towing? Is it really worth the risk?" And the answer was always "No".
There is no inherent technical reason (like the transmission in an ICE), it is simply "Why risk it, we are selling every unit before its built..."
I have towed one of my leafs and one of my BMW but just to see how fast did they charge, and o boy did they complained!

[map40]

I drove an R1S today (factory demo). Like all EVs the acceleration was mind blowing. I believe it can do a pretty good job towing, they told me 9000# (no door sticker as it was a preproduction model), except for the already mentioned problem of range and recharge with the trailer in tow.
It is nice inside, drives really good, great suspension, excellent handling. When you floor the pedal you just can't stop smiling. You just can't describe the feeling of driving at supercar speeds with the whole family and the dogs
Now, I still believe that for most RVers it won't be a good fit. You are paying over $100k for a tow vehicle that will need to recharge every few hours. I would take a Durango or Grand Cherokee Hellcat and tow as much as I want.
But if you can accommodate the range and the price it would make a heck of a tow vehicle!

[JRscooby]

Reisender wrote:


That’s kind of what Toyota is working on. I saw an article a week or two ago. I think it was titled hitchless towing or something like that. A google search might bring up something.

Essentially a vehicle with self driving autonomy would do that. There are a few manufacturers working on that although I think it’s still 2 or 3 years away. Who knows. The challenge would be the vehicle still needs to be fueled or charged manually. But of course there will be solutions for that too.

Fun to watch the technology change.

The video shows the idea would work. But that way both cars would need to supply power to move their self. To use on road, need to shorten the space between

[Tvov]

Looked up the R1S, reminds me of a Landrover.

Speaking of that front end... when I first saw them I thought they were ugly. In my town I see a Rivian pickup every so often, and in person they look pretty good! Still not great in my opinion, but not as horrible as I would have thought.

(can't seem to post a picture, probably not enough coffee in me yet)

[Reisender]

Grit dog wrote:

JRscooby wrote:


Another idea; If driver of MH could power up the toad on the fly, make toad pull itself, or even push, on steep hills, or when need to accelerate.
This would make room in battery for the regen.

ROFL. Or what if it could fly, like a Jestons car, or teleport itself to the next destination….
Oh wait. Self driving is basically fully functional. You could have it virtually hitched to the Moho…..

That’s kind of what Toyota is working on. I saw an article a week or two ago. I think it was titled hitchless towing or something like that. A google search might bring up something.

Essentially a vehicle with self driving autonomy would do that. There are a few manufacturers working on that although I think it’s still 2 or 3 years away. Who knows. The challenge would be the vehicle still needs to be fueled or charged manually. But of course there will be solutions for that too.

Fun to watch the technology change.

On edit. I found a video on it.

Hitchless towing.

[JRscooby]

Grit dog wrote:

JRscooby wrote:


Another idea; If driver of MH could power up the toad on the fly, make toad pull itself, or even push, on steep hills, or when need to accelerate.
This would make room in battery for the regen.

ROFL. Or what if it could fly, like a Jestons car, or teleport itself to the next destination….
Oh wait. Self driving is basically fully functional. You could have it virtually hitched to the Moho…..

I have seen ads where the car will park itself for the driver. And the cruise control system will slow the car to maintain safe following distance, sound alarm and brake if gets to close. Bell 1 add locks the car door if a bicycle is passing a parked car. Are you saying there could not be a target on the back of MH, so a car does not stay tight to it? Now add V bars for safety, and to move the car under normal driving. We can already apply the toad's brakes from MH driver seat. Would it take a lot to turn on Regen with the MH's jake? And with that regen working to slow the combination, a lot of the waste energy could be put in battery, used to move the toad next day, or even supply residential loads when MH parks for night. But with the amount of energy that needs to be dissipated by a MH brakes in the course of a day of driving, I could see EV battery reaching full charge. When that happened, the regen braking goes away. Turn on EV, let it push against the towbar, help MH get up to speed.
Now many will say the market is to small, nobody will work on this idea. But throughout history many things have been invented, not to sell, but to use. Somebody is likely working on towing their EV, even if the manufacture does not recommend. If it is somebody as dumb as I am, they are just doing mechanical things, just like a ICE. But if also can work with computers, who can say what they can come up with. Near 10% of cars sold worldwide last year where EVs. Somebody wants to tow one.

[time2roll]

Grit dog wrote:
What would you be trading up from…..you know, if it could be a 4 on the floor toad?

Some day my old truck and 5th wheel will get retired. I expect my next RV is a Class A or Super C. At that point I want an EV to pull behind.

[Grit_dog]

JRscooby wrote:


Another idea; If driver of MH could power up the toad on the fly, make toad pull itself, or even push, on steep hills, or when need to accelerate.
This would make room in battery for the regen.

ROFL. Or what if it could fly, like a Jestons car, or teleport itself to the next destination….
Oh wait. Self driving is basically fully functional. You could have it virtually hitched to the Moho…..

[Reisender]

JRscooby wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

time2roll wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
Not of great interest to Class A, B and C Rvers.

I am still waiting to get a report on using a Rivian as a toad. If it works I might just trade....

Could it be setup to add braking on a downhill? Regenerative?

Another idea; If driver of MH could power up the toad on the fly, make toad pull itself, or even push, on steep hills, or when need to accelerate.
This would make room in battery for the regen.

Great idea. But probably a pretty small market for a manufacturer to invest in the R&D needed. That would be mostly software.

Toyota is working on “follow me” software where the car would just follow the Motorhome. That would be a more universal approach as you could use any car as a toad. Or just tell it to meet you at the campsite. :). Mercedes and Tesla are probably not that far from that now with their (future) autonomous driving software packages.

[JRscooby]

time2roll wrote:
After a bit more reading... Rivian seems to no longer endorse four-down towing of the vehicles. 😞
Bollinger had made the same comments and then shifted out of the personal market to focus on commercial.
There are no EVs that can be towed on all four wheels that I am aware of.

Can anybody tell what the issue is that would prevent flat towing? For years, ICE cars was the transmission did not lube itself unless the input shaft was spinning. Which implied spin the engine. EVs don't have transmission, so that's no problem. No disconnect between wheel and motor? Well spinning the motor, with no power to it, does no harm, as long does not exceed speed it would normally run. (Going to tow faster than you would drive?) Steering and brakes would be no more complicated than ICE.

[Grit_dog]

time2roll wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

time2roll wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
Not of great interest to Class A, B and C Rvers.

I am still waiting to get a report on using a Rivian as a toad. If it works I might just trade....

Could it be setup to add braking on a downhill? Regenerative?

After a bit more reading... Rivian seems to no longer endorse four-down towing of the vehicles. 😞
Bollinger had made the same comments and then shifted out of the personal market to focus on commercial.
There are no EVs that can be towed on all four wheels that I am aware of.

What would you be trading up from…..you know, if it could be a 4 on the floor toad?

[time2roll]

Huntindog wrote:

time2roll wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
Not of great interest to Class A, B and C Rvers.

I am still waiting to get a report on using a Rivian as a toad. If it works I might just trade....

Could it be setup to add braking on a downhill? Regenerative?

After a bit more reading... Rivian seems to no longer endorse four-down towing of the vehicles. 😞
Bollinger had made the same comments and then shifted out of the personal market to focus on commercial.
There are no EVs that can be towed on all four wheels that I am aware of.