RV Problems

[hohenwald48]

I see a lot of posts on this site and others about problems that folks have with their "new" campers (of all classes).

I wonder how much of this is unrealistic expectations on the part of new RV buyers. As much as it would be nice for RVs to come out of the factory with a failure rate similar to that of automobile manufacturers, is that a realistic hope? Would that make the most basic travel trailer cost in the same realm as a high end motor coach today?

It seems the RV owners with the least number of problems are those who "came up thru the ranks" from tent camping to more complex RVs. The ones who seem to have all the problems are the buyers of large RVs as their first purchase. They are trying to get by without the benefit of the education and experience of working their way up to larger units.

I guess I don't really have a question or a point for that matter. Just rambling.

[Doug33]

When you spend more money, you are generally spending for a bigger unit, more option features, or upgrades to items like cabinetry, furniture, fixtures, flooring, countertops, etc. In most cases the assembly line quality is about the same. Unless you spend a lot more to buy a unit that is more custom made.

Knock on particle board, but I have never had any major warranty repairs in the 10 years I've owned TTs (I did have a warranty repair on a previous PU).

I think the key to TT ownership is having enough mechanical ability to repair the small things yourself - otherwise you are going to have your unit at the dealer or repair facility quite a few times. For instance, just knowing which screws to tighten (there are a zillion on a TT) on a regular basis will keep you out of some trouble. And many times it is the small things that creep up after the warranty is over.

[Lynnmor]

wing_zealot wrote:
You want higher quality, buy higher quality. It's certainly available. Most people aren't willing to pay for higher quality, then ***** when they don't get it. You get what you pay for.

Trouble is..... it's not available. You don't get what you pay for, for example stripped screws actually cost more than correctly installed screws. Too many people accept this poor workmanship and even defend their purchase while not recognizing the problems they just bought. If a manufacturer cannot build a product correctly, then they shouldn't exist.

[wing_zealot]

You want higher quality, buy higher quality. It's certainly available. Most people aren't willing to pay for higher quality, then beech when they don't get it. You get what you pay for. I think generally you will find the newbies buying on price and having no recognition of what quality looks like. After the first one, they may recognize quality, but still buy on price; that's on them.

[Muddydogs]

hohenwald48 wrote:

Muddydogs wrote:
So what you are saying OP is I should expect to pay $40,000 + for a RV then have to start working on it right away? With this kind of thinking no wonder RV manufactures are turning out such low quality products.

I have owned my rig for a year and have a laundry list of stuff that needed fixed, most of it small but still unacceptable for a new unit. I now have a trailer that has a crowned floor side to side as well as front to back and a front wall that has torn loose from the floor. but I guess this is ok?

Maybe you should read the whole thread instead of trying to jump in the middle of the conversation. Then you might understand what we're discussing.

I did read the whole thread and this is exactly what you are discussing. You think its the consumers fault that there trailer is falling apart because moving up the ranks from a tent camper to a RV somehow makes the problems go away. What does moving up the RV ranks have to do with anything anyway? Doesn't even make a lick of sense.

What's so different from a tent trailer to a fifth wheel besides the hitch? All kinds of trailers have the same types of system and general construction and in the end all you are doing is moving up the ranks in weight, length and height. The only big jump would be from tent camping to your first RV where you need to learn about your systems and trailer care after that its minor changes.

If you don't like the answers to your post maybe you should think about what you are posting in the first place. It's you that is having a problem understanding what people are trying to tell you.

[4X4Dodger]

hohenwald48 wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:
Part of the problem in RV's quality is that the manufacturers have not been able to take full advantage of all the technological advances in assembly that have made our cars much more reliable and cheaper to build.

It is nearly impossible to build an RV with robots as cars and many other products are. It is impossible to hold the tight tolerances that result in higher quality. RV's are really being built with mostly 19th century technology and sold in a 21st century technology market place.

Only the very high end Of motorcoach RV,s are able to utilize some of the automotive assembly technology. And we all see what that costs.

Of course as I pointed out in another post this is a highly complex subject with so many facets that it just cannot be done justice on a forum like this.

It would be very interesting to have dinner with a few CEO's of RV manufacturers and listen to their problems....I am sure that would open quite a few eyes here.

It has been my experience that few people truly understand what it takes to run a manufacturing company successfully, pay your employees fairly, meet customer expectations, stay competitive in a fast changing market, keep your Board of Directors happy, innovate, design the next new model (or widget) and still be profitable. Trust me, most people are not cut out for it. It's very easy to sit in your armchair and criticize from a standpoint of ignorance. It's a much different thing to try to understand the complex problems and actually get a better result. (and still stay profitable)

I'm not sure what I am reading here. Are you saying we aren't smart enough to understand?

I have re-read my post a couple of times to be sure I didnt miss anything and I can see nothing that indicates, implies or says that. Perhaps you might clarify what gave you that impression?

[lbrjet]

goducks10 wrote:
They won't stop building low QC units until the demand drops and the work force is narrowed down to the higher skilled workers.

Exactly what happened years ago when I purchased mine in 2010. Haven't had a single issue despite traveling 19K miles and over 700 nights. In the middle of a 75 night 4K trip right now. The trailer has never seen a dealer since the day I picked it up.

[hohenwald48]

Muddydogs wrote:
So what you are saying OP is I should expect to pay $40,000 + for a RV then have to start working on it right away? With this kind of thinking no wonder RV manufactures are turning out such low quality products.

I have owned my rig for a year and have a laundry list of stuff that needed fixed, most of it small but still unacceptable for a new unit. I now have a trailer that has a crowned floor side to side as well as front to back and a front wall that has torn loose from the floor. but I guess this is ok?

Maybe you should read the whole thread instead of trying to jump in the middle of the conversation. Then you might understand what we're discussing.

[goducks10]

They won't stop building low QC units until the demand drops and the work force is narrowed down to the higher skilled workers.
Couple that with cheap equipment that's installed and 70's construction techniques.
A recipe for disaster.

[Muddydogs]

So what you are saying OP is I should expect to pay $40,000 + for a RV then have to start working on it right away? With this kind of thinking no wonder RV manufactures are turning out such low quality products.

I have owned my rig for a year and have a laundry list of stuff that needed fixed, most of it small but still unacceptable for a new unit. I now have a trailer that has a crowned floor side to side as well as front to back and a front wall that has torn loose from the floor. but I guess this is ok?

[2012Coleman]

hohenwald48 wrote:


2012coleman,

I don't think anybody ever said "unreasonable". I think the phrase was "unrealistic". There is a big difference in the two. If you expect everything to work on a new RV then you have "unrealistic" expectations or you are new to the RV world.

I stand corrected - the OP said unrealistic.

But, I still stand by my statement - just plug in the correct word - same difference.

Your view is exactly why the RV industry continues to produce products that are sub-par. They know that people out there will pay for them regardless. Kind of like US auto manufacturers in the 70's to late 90's.

In my case, I wanted to join the lifestyle. and unfortunately, I had to purchase the lesser of evils presented in my months of shopping and research.

I only wish there was foreign competition for the likes of the TT's posted by the guy(don't remember his handle) from Australia.

[hohenwald48]

4X4Dodger wrote:
Part of the problem in RV's quality is that the manufacturers have not been able to take full advantage of all the technological advances in assembly that have made our cars much more reliable and cheaper to build.

It is nearly impossible to build an RV with robots as cars and many other products are. It is impossible to hold the tight tolerances that result in higher quality. RV's are really being built with mostly 19th century technology and sold in a 21st century technology market place.

Only the very high end Of motorcoach RV,s are able to utilize some of the automotive assembly technology. And we all see what that costs.

Of course as I pointed out in another post this is a highly complex subject with so many facets that it just cannot be done justice on a forum like this.

It would be very interesting to have dinner with a few CEO's of RV manufacturers and listen to their problems....I am sure that would open quite a few eyes here.

It has been my experience that few people truly understand what it takes to run a manufacturing company successfully, pay your employees fairly, meet customer expectations, stay competitive in a fast changing market, keep your Board of Directors happy, innovate, design the next new model (or widget) and still be profitable. Trust me, most people are not cut out for it. It's very easy to sit in your armchair and criticize from a standpoint of ignorance. It's a much different thing to try to understand the complex problems and actually get a better result. (and still stay profitable)

I'm not sure what I am reading here. Are you saying we aren't smart enough to understand?

[4X4Dodger]

Part of the problem in RV's quality is that the manufacturers have not been able to take full advantage of all the technological advances in assembly that have made our cars much more reliable and cheaper to build.

It is nearly impossible to build an RV with robots as cars and many other products are. It is impossible to hold the tight tolerances that result in higher quality. RV's are really being built with mostly 19th century technology and sold in a 21st century technology market place.

Only the very high end Of motorcoach RV,s are able to utilize some of the automotive assembly technology. And we all see what that costs.

Of course as I pointed out in another post this is a highly complex subject with so many facets that it just cannot be done justice on a forum like this.

It would be very interesting to have dinner with a few CEO's of RV manufacturers and listen to their problems....I am sure that would open quite a few eyes here.

It has been my experience that few people truly understand what it takes to run a manufacturing company successfully, pay your employees fairly, meet customer expectations, stay competitive in a fast changing market, keep your Board of Directors happy, innovate, design the next new model (or widget) and still be profitable. Trust me, most people are not cut out for it. It's very easy to sit in your armchair and criticize from a standpoint of ignorance. It's a much different thing to try to understand the complex problems and actually get a better result. (and still stay profitable)

[hohenwald48]

2012Coleman wrote:

op wrote:
I wonder how much of this is unrealistic expectations on the part of new RV buyers.

:H

Old-Biscuit wrote:
I don't buy into your premise that a 'newbie' that buys a $50,000 RV doesn't get high quality unit just because they haven't gone thru the process of education & experience.

Whether newbie or old salt, when you plunk down your monies the RV should be expected to perform as intended.

It's called: "Warranty of Merchantability"
To be "merchantable", the goods must reasonably conform to an ordinary buyer's expectations, i.e., they are what they say they are.
The warranty of merchantability is implied, unless expressly disclaimed by name, or the sale is identified with the phrase "as is" or "with all faults."

Folks having their new RVs in for warranty repairs that end up being in shop for 9-13 months are not meeting the minimum standards of 'mechantability'

This is a direct result of mfg's lack of quality control and piece mill work practices.

Well stated OB.

When I buy a new rig - regardless of the price, I expect the thing to work. I expect the pipes to hold water pressure, I expect the AC to blow cold air, I expect it won't leak, I expect the fridge to cool my food and my stove to heat it. I expect the electrical system works and I expect the slides to work.

Unreasonable you say? Do you own an RV dealership or something?

2012coleman,

I don't think anybody ever said "unreasonable". I think the phrase was "unrealistic". There is a big difference in the two. If you expect everything to work on a new RV then you have "unrealistic" expectations or you are new to the RV world.

[4X4Dodger]

GMandJM wrote:

rbpru wrote:
How much more would you pay for more quality in your TT? 10%, 20% or more?

Given the comments on the board about finding the best deal and those greedy sales people, do not look for any changes soon.

To get a better build quality? I'd be willing to go 10 percent more as long as it went into the workers' pockets and not the manufacturer's. Or to hire more/better QC workers, perhaps.

I'm not sure how much incentive that would really be though.

I am curious why do you care where the 10% goes as long as you get better quality. Isnt that the goal? Better quality does not begin and end with the assemblers. It begins in SOURCING of parts and Materials. It continues with incoming or Receiving QC functions to ensure the company is getting what they paid for. These are all costs for the company.

As I have pointed out in these posts on this subject before this is a far more complex problem...a problem of business economics than most people like yourself understand.

A simple 10 or 20% rise in cost will not solve the quallity problems.

[2012Coleman]

op wrote:
I wonder how much of this is unrealistic expectations on the part of new RV buyers.

:H

Old-Biscuit wrote:
I don't buy into your premise that a 'newbie' that buys a $50,000 RV doesn't get high quality unit just because they haven't gone thru the process of education & experience.

Whether newbie or old salt, when you plunk down your monies the RV should be expected to perform as intended.

It's called: "Warranty of Merchantability"
To be "merchantable", the goods must reasonably conform to an ordinary buyer's expectations, i.e., they are what they say they are.
The warranty of merchantability is implied, unless expressly disclaimed by name, or the sale is identified with the phrase "as is" or "with all faults."

Folks having their new RVs in for warranty repairs that end up being in shop for 9-13 months are not meeting the minimum standards of 'mechantability'

This is a direct result of mfg's lack of quality control and piece mill work practices.

Well stated OB.

When I buy a new rig - regardless of the price, I expect the thing to work. I expect the pipes to hold water pressure, I expect the AC to blow cold air, I expect it won't leak, I expect the fridge to cool my food and my stove to heat it. I expect the electrical system works and I expect the slides to work.

Unreasonable you say? Do you own an RV dealership or something?