Seeking Advice re Purchase of Used Tow Vehicle

[crcr]

Hi, We’re shopping for a used truck for a tow vehicle & second vehicle. We have a used TT in mind to purchase after we buy the truck -- a Jayco 256rks (apparently last year of production was the 2012) --a 28’ TT, dry tongue weight of 680, dry weight of 5690, GVWR of 7500. So of course we are are being realistic and plan on 7000 to 7500 lbs loaded for camping.

We want a crew cab, short bed, 4WD, gas. I would like factory tow package with related differential gearing & HD cooling (we live in the desert), The truck won’t get very many miles put on it per year, so a bit older is fine, but it must be in well maintained condition because of the extreme hot climate we live in, and towing duty in this climate. We would like to keep the purchase cost in the budget range of $8,000 - $12,500 if at all possible.

With so many on this forum who have so much experience towing and with trucks, I would like a bit of information and advice for those who wish to share. I’m wondering how and where do I find the factory specs for used trucks? Specifically, I will want to know what ratio rear end, whether it has OEM tow package, an upgraded transmission cooler, and/or a larger optional radiator, and payload. Do I have to take the VIN# and run it somewhere to find out how it was factory equipped? Should all trucks have the yellow sticker with payload, etc., and where is it usually located? If the yellow sticker is missing, how does one find out payload?

We prefer half ton if we can find one that has adequate specs for our needs, though we would consider a ¾ ton if it is deemed necessary. I have owned a Ford van with a V10, and know the quality of that engine, but would rather get by with a V8 if possible, due to the difference in gas mileage.

I want to avoid any engine or make with a history of cooling problems, again due to our climate.. I would be interested in engine recommendations. I would like a used Ecoboost F150, but those debuted in 2011 so are still out of my price range. It seems like I have read that the Ford 5.4 V8 is not that powerful of a tow engine -- is that correct or no? How is the Chevy 5.3? I’m not averse to the Ram with a 5.7 V8, but one thing I don’t like about the Ram is that the crew cab is not as spacious as we would like, and the Mega Cab seems to bring quite a premium, plus I don’t much care for the looks of the Mega Cab model. However, the Ram is still a consideration. We’d be interested in a Toyota Tundra if it had the necessary payload, but the resale on those probably put them well out of our price range.

For payload purposes, when we go camping, myself and the wife weigh 300 lbs combined, plus a 65 lb dog, plus the typical camping equipment we would put in the bed of the truck. I would of course use a weight distribution hitch, and would like to move the two 6V batteries I have on our present TT, to the Jayco 28’ TT. The battery box I have for the two 6V batteries is thick heavy duty plastic, so not much weight added there, but obviously the two 6V batteries add weight over one 12V battery -- I’m going to say add 100 lbs to the tongue for the battery switch out.

If any of you can shed light on my questions about a truck selection, and/or how to get the real OEM specs on used trucks, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[crcr]

Thanks very much, otrfun and Wes, you both make very valid points.

[Wes_Tausend]

...

crcr,

Most people that post here are enthusiastic tow people (nothing wrong with that) and therefore almost always think that you can't have too big a truck. This is true, if towing is what the truck will be primarily doing. But I'll bet that most campers are sold to folks that plan to tow only on occasion and plan most of the truck miles will be non-towing. Ownership cost is an object to many.

In that case a full-size half-ton truck is usually adequate, either a pick-up or full-size SUV. The frames, and driveline, are essentially the same on these two brethren. You will get better empty fuel economy with such a lighter truck and they can easily be adapted to haul greater weights than flimsy factory passenger-type tires allow by simply upgrading tires. The main reasons the empty fuel economy is down on the larger light duty trucks (3/4, 1 ton) is that they have huge, less efficient (but more durable) axle gears, are heavy in stop-and-go city driving, and they are less aerodynamic (taller) on the highway.

It is important that you know that the size of the engine does not matter much for empty fuel economy, the truck chassis causes all engines to work harder and burn more fuel than smaller trucks. Furthermore, while towing, all (gas) trucks burn similar amounts of fuel, 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton, being limited in the wind by the boxy TT(travel-trailer). If you are going to get the same lousy fuel economy anyway, you may as well have more power on tap. Finally, the average 1/2 ton rides better empty, the average 3/4 ton better, and more stable, loaded.

Another little known fact is that the smaller 1/2 ton trucks (especially in the past) often have better brakes than 3/4 ton, although it is frequently assumed otherwise. But in your favor either way, the campers always have their own brakes, so every truck must essentially only stop itself and passengers. In reality, the total loaded, ready-to-camp rig weight usually means stopping distances are increased all around, so equal care in allowing for longer stopping distances is required no matter which size light duty truck is used.

I noted this comment of yours:
"We prefer half ton if we can find one that has adequate specs for our needs, though we would consider a ¾ ton if it is deemed necessary. I have owned a Ford van with a V10, and know the quality of that engine, but would rather get by with a V8 if possible, due to the difference in gas mileage"

To be honest, I don't think you will find a V-10 in a half-ton truck. And there is very little difference in empty fuel economy between the V-10 or a V-8 if they are in the 3/4 ton trucks. About the best any do is 14 mpg. It is the heavy duty chassis that kills empty fuel economy, not so much the engine size as in smaller vehicles. Towing economy will be almost exactly the same between all gas motors. Keeping this in mind is why the 3/4 ton truck of choice may just as well have a larger motor, the extra power reserve being desirable in some instances of towing.

IDEAS:
I had a buddy that pulled his 5vr with a low mileage 3/4 ton 1995 Dodge 2wd truck with the Cummins diesel, 5 speed manual transmission and standard cab. He bought it new. It was not unusual for this model to get 13-14 mpg while towing. Sure, I knew he was tiring of the big 5vr, and he mentioned that he was thinking of getting a truck mounted camper, so I assumed he was keeping the truck. While I wasn't looking, a blizzard hit, he traded the traction-challenged Dodge in for a 1/2 ton 4x4, and he got $8k for it. Aagggh!

The trade-in he got is not an unusual selling point for these 2wd trucks. I had already noticed that I could dump my little 17/20 mpg gas mini-truck, buy a diesel truck like his, and get the same daily-driver city/highway mileage as the miniature truck. But I could also pull my camper with it at 13-14 mpg rather than use the thirsty 7-8 mpg V-10 4x4 gas 3/4 ton Excursion. And the Dodge would hold it's value.

I ended up buying a 2000 4x4 Ford CC(crew cab) diesel for a lot more money and I have some buyers remorse. I'm thinking I should have bought a similar CC Ford in 2wd, instead, that also sold for $8k like the Dodge.

You might consider a similar purchase. Two wheel drive sells cheaper than 4x4 and yields slightly better mpg to boot. One may purchase the larger 3/4 ton truck, yet get the same empty fuel economy as a thrifty 1/2 ton pick-up.

Another alternative is to buy a small cheap work car as a second driver and dedicate a 3/4 ton gas hog to towing only. Even if the little car goes down for service, the hog can be driven temporarily.

Good luck in your quest.

Wes
...

[otrfun]

crcr wrote:
Hi, We’re shopping for a used truck for a tow vehicle & second vehicle. We have a used TT in mind to purchase after we buy the truck -- a Jayco 256rks (apparently last year of production was the 2012) --a 28’ TT, dry tongue weight of 680, dry weight of 5690, GVWR of 7500. So of course we are are being realistic and plan on 7000 to 7500 lbs loaded for camping.

We want a crew cab, short bed, 4WD, gas. I would like factory tow package with related differential gearing & HD cooling (we live in the desert), The truck won’t get very many miles put on it per year, so a bit older is fine, but it must be in well maintained condition because of the extreme hot climate we live in, and towing duty in this climate. We would like to keep the purchase cost in the budget range of $8,000 - $12,500 if at all possible.

With so many on this forum who have so much experience towing and with trucks, I would like a bit of information and advice for those who wish to share. I’m wondering how and where do I find the factory specs for used trucks? Specifically, I will want to know what ratio rear end, whether it has OEM tow package, an upgraded transmission cooler, and/or a larger optional radiator, and payload. Do I have to take the VIN# and run it somewhere to find out how it was factory equipped? Should all trucks have the yellow sticker with payload, etc., and where is it usually located? If the yellow sticker is missing, how does one find out payload?

We prefer half ton if we can find one that has adequate specs for our needs, though we would consider a ¾ ton if it is deemed necessary. I have owned a Ford van with a V10, and know the quality of that engine, but would rather get by with a V8 if possible, due to the difference in gas mileage.

I want to avoid any engine or make with a history of cooling problems, again due to our climate.. I would be interested in engine recommendations. I would like a used Ecoboost F150, but those debuted in 2011 so are still out of my price range. It seems like I have read that the Ford 5.4 V8 is not that powerful of a tow engine -- is that correct or no? How is the Chevy 5.3? I’m not averse to the Ram with a 5.7 V8, but one thing I don’t like about the Ram is that the crew cab is not as spacious as we would like, and the Mega Cab seems to bring quite a premium, plus I don’t much care for the looks of the Mega Cab model. However, the Ram is still a consideration. We’d be interested in a Toyota Tundra if it had the necessary payload, but the resale on those probably put them well out of our price range.

For payload purposes, when we go camping, myself and the wife weigh 300 lbs combined, plus a 65 lb dog, plus the typical camping equipment we would put in the bed of the truck. I would of course use a weight distribution hitch, and would like to move the two 6V batteries I have on our present TT, to the Jayco 28’ TT. The battery box I have for the two 6V batteries is thick heavy duty plastic, so not much weight added there, but obviously the two 6V batteries add weight over one 12V battery -- I’m going to say add 100 lbs to the tongue for the battery switch out.

If any of you can shed light on my questions about a truck selection, and/or how to get the real OEM specs on used trucks, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

With a budget of $8k-$12k, IMO condition trumps a long list of wants, needs, and factory specs.

IMO, your best bet is to buy a stripped, low-mileage, 1/2 ton truck in great mechanical condition without much regard to make or model. Most V8 equipped 1/2 tons can safely tow 6,500-7,000 lbs. I'd much rather make it to my destination with a little less power and space, than be broken down on the side of the highway with plenty of sleeping space and a big tow capacity.

Good luck!

[crcr]

Though I did not thank each responder separately, I do thank you all for all your responses -- all very helpful.

[nmhuntr]

Lantley wrote:
THere is no source that I am aware of that will give you the build specs. However a dealer maybe able to give you info with vin#.
All 3/4 tons will have ample payload. If you go 1/2 ton you will have to be more concerned with the payload rating of the truck.

x2

[jus2shy]

crcr wrote:
Thanks for all your replies. Very much appreciated.

Can someone tell me how to find out exactly how a used truck was equipped from the factory? Is there a website for each make where one can go and plug in the VIN# and get a list of the original equipment including the rear axle ratio, tow package or not, oversize radiator, larger transmission cooler, etc.? If there is no website that will provide those answers, is there some other way to get that information on a specific used truck?

Thanks.

Dodge forum has a VIN decoder that works for just about any vehicle 1981 and newer, here's the link VIN Decoder

Good luck with finding what you want.

[maxwell11]

crcr,

I fully understand your pain in looking for a used truck as:

1. you really never know for sure how it was cared for or treated
2. if you buy from an individual, if it falls apart on the way home, its yours, sometimes a reputable dealership will help you out.

I bought my old dodge 2005 from a new car dealership, am sure I paid more, but it was clean, had low miles and the dealership has been in the community for years with good report.

also they told me who had it and why it was traded in.
as that is the first question you ask when you can find a older dodge diesel (with few epa requirements)and low miles, the poor old man died and his daughter traded it in for a little puddle jumper of some kind.

sorry he died, but that is about the only way you can get a low mileage used dodge diesel truck, someone has to die.

all the newer diesel trucks are great trucks, but most do not get the good mpg that some of the older ones did and most in good condition will be over your price range.

per you statement: maybe a gaser is in your best interest as most of the time you will not be pulling the trailer, also your money is a problem as used diesels are top selling trucks,

I guess I would stick to a heavy duty 1500 or 2500 gaser and just bite the bullet on mpg.

However, that is the reason I traded my 2500 chevy gas truck for the diesel, it was a ok truck, but it never met a gas pump it did not fall in love with and full was not as high back then.
pulling about 6-7 mpg and around town 12 mpg on a good day

just do your homework and take your time, there are plenty of good used trucks out there, your problem is just finding one that will do all you want and be in good condition for that money.
good luck,

[crcr]

Lantley wrote:
I would agree with APT. Sounds like you want a dedicated tow vehicle. Gas mileage for 1/2 ton vs 3/4 will be the same while towing. The only reason to consider a 1/2 ton is they may have a softer car like ride when not towing.
However that same softer suspension and chassis becomes a liability when towing.
Trying to find a older 1/2 ton gasser equipped for towing is a tall order.
If you plan to use the vehicle mainly for towing,why fool around with the 1/2 ton search when lots of capable 3/4 tons a readily available.

Thanks again to all, for the replies. Actually, it won't be a dedicated tower. We go to the same campground thoughout the summer camping season, and we rent a storage space 2 miles from the campground. So we only tow the TT to the camping area once in the Spring, and bring it back home in the Fall. The rental cost of the storage is less than the increased fuel from towing, so it saves money and hassle. So all summer, we will be driving the TV back and forth from home to the camping area (with a change of elevation from 1100' to 7700'), with nothing in tow. Maybe once every two years, we might take a longer trip with the TT in tow to nearby states and other campgrounds.

We also will use the vehicle for some short errand trips throughout the year near home. It won't sit all the time. So a lot of the usage of the truck will be empty, so the harsher ride of a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton is a consideration. Also for the same reason, mileage when not towing is important to me. That is why, though I like the V10 engine, I'm not keen on one due to the bad mileage empty.

Still, you all make excellent arguments for a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton, and I will definitely consider a 3/4 ton. However, I think that will make my job harder, as it appears to me that crew cab short bed 3/4 ton trucks are harder to find than long bed. I don't need or want a long bed, as it's not convenient parking it in the city when I use it here. I also notice that so many used trucks around here are lifted, and I do not want a lifted truck -- prefer bone stock if I can find a clean one.

Merry Christmas to everyone and your families!

[Engineer9860]

crcr wrote:
Thanks for all your replies. Very much appreciated.

Can someone tell me how to find out exactly how a used truck was equipped from the factory? Is there a website for each make where one can go and plug in the VIN# and get a list of the original equipment including the rear axle ratio, tow package or not, oversize radiator, larger transmission cooler, etc.? If there is no website that will provide those answers, is there some other way to get that information on a specific used truck?

Thanks.

On a GM, Google "GM RPO codes". As was said above there is a decal in your glovebox with a list of three digit codes. They tell you what options the truck was built with at the factory.

Ford, and Dodge doesn't do this so your best bet is to take the VIN from those trucks to a dealer to get them decoded. You can also get the VIN decoded for your GM, but 99.9% of the time the tag in the glovebox will be accurate.

[Lantley]

I would agree with APT. Sounds like you want a dedicated tow vehicle. Gas mileage for 1/2 ton vs 3/4 will be the same while towing. The only reason to consider a 1/2 ton is they may have a softer car like ride when not towing.
However that same softer suspension and chassis becomes a liability when towing.
Trying to find a older 1/2 ton gasser equipped for towing is a tall order.
If you plan to use the vehicle mainly for towing,why fool around with the 1/2 ton search when lots of capable 3/4 tons a readily available.

[APT]

crcr wrote:

Can someone tell me how to find out exactly how a used truck was equipped from the factory?

www.compnine.com worked very well for GM vehicles what I was looking 2 years ago. But it has changes to pay only but supports more brands.

But that's your problem. Finding a used half ton pickup with all the equipment and capability you want will take far more work. Meanwhile every 3/4 ton from 10 years ago will come equipped with what you need in your budget. Then you just need to focus on finding one on good condition. Why do you think you want to limit yourself to half tons anyway? All gas engines get 7-10mpg towing a high walled RV. Engine doesn't matter engine; chassis doesn't matter. Get the most powerful one.

[Lantley]

THere is no source that I am aware of that will give you the build specs. However a dealer maybe able to give you info with vin#.
All 3/4 tons will have ample payload. If you go 1/2 ton you will have to be more concerned with the payload rating of the truck.

[crcr]

Thanks for all your replies. Very much appreciated.

Can someone tell me how to find out exactly how a used truck was equipped from the factory? Is there a website for each make where one can go and plug in the VIN# and get a list of the original equipment including the rear axle ratio, tow package or not, oversize radiator, larger transmission cooler, etc.? If there is no website that will provide those answers, is there some other way to get that information on a specific used truck?

Thanks.

[Farmerkev]

bmanning wrote:

Gsturner wrote:
Don't overlook Nissan Titan. I bought an 07 used at 28 k miles in 2010. Just south of 100k now, the majority being towing a 34' Rockwood. Factory "Big Tow" package has trans cooler with guage, 410 rear end. Never got even close to overheating. 9400# tow capacity. Traveled all over country, FL,DC, SD, CO, AZ. Last trip averaged 9.3 mpg (scan guage). Crew cab with back 'suicide doors ' still allows full size bed, big enough to carry my Suzuki GZ250, ramp, a couple of bicycles and cargo box.

Clearly no one has informed you- or your Titan- that what you've experienced is impossible with a grocery-getter skirt-wearing half ton.

The last 68k miles were clearly a figment of your imagination.

:B

It shouldn't take too long before we get to the usual "you need at least a class 8 semi to tow a pop up" all these threads wind up at.