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Specific TV engine question

Anmacc2
Explorer
Explorer
My van is burning oil because of rings. It is slowly getting worse. I am now burning 1qt per two tanks of gas. It is too big a job and too expensive and not worth it to me to fix it at this point. What will happen as the issue progresses? Will I just burn more and more oil? I only put maybe 9,000 miles a year on it.

Please stay to the topic and answer the specific question to help me. 🙂
I sincerely appreciate the generosity and caring of this site!!!
Me & Her since 1977
TV 2014 Ford E350 Superduty
TT 2015 keystone Passport Elite 23RB
Boat 20' TriumphDC
22 REPLIES 22

noteven
Explorer III
Explorer III
rjstractor wrote:
06Fargo wrote:
How many quarts of gas per how many quarts of oil, expressed in 2 cycle ratio.. 200:1?


I'd guess about 240:1- 2 tank of gas per quart= about 60 gallons per quart= 240:1. But if it smokes only on startup the ratio is not constant.


thanks rjstractor - pretty lean ratio for a 2 stroke 🙂

Hi Anmacc2 - I wouldn't throw away the engine or van over this rate of oil consumption. Some of the "restorer" products suggested work by swelling the valve seals a bit so the pass less oil and so on. As far as I have heard they will not hurt the engine and may slow down the oil consumption. Using your van once in a while for a trip long enough to get engine / trans / axles warmed right up is a good idea. All vehicles like a bit of exercise.

I towed a tall box shape on a flatbed a considerable distance with an old 1991 5.7 V8 Chev pickup - 3rd gear about 3500 rpm against the wind if I remember... about 6 mpg and 1 quart of oil every 25 gals of gas across the great plains. Got rid of the load and oil consumption went back to 1 quart every 5 or 6 tanks... that engine ran another 60 or 80K miles before retirement due to head gasket at around 280,000 miles...

Anmacc2
Explorer
Explorer
I am soooooooooooo grateful for everyone's response!!! I have learned so much from this thread and understand much better what's likely going on and going to happen long and short term.i use the van pretty much only for towing. It sits weeks (sometimes months) at a time. I average 9,000 miles a year and usually 6,000 of those miles is accumulated in a one month long vacation towing the TT across some part of the USA or Canada. The remaining 3,000 is usually towing the boat around. It gets an oil change before and after each vacation.

So, short term I am going to add engine restore and a good fuel injector cleaner and take it on a nice road trip without towing. Maybe 500 or 600 miles of easy highway driving at 75mph. Then I'm going to drive it every day for awhile and see if that helps at all. Long term I am going to be diligent about checking the oil as I have been and I'm going to keep it without doing anything major to it for as long as I can. Nurse it along rather than doctor it up. LOL

I bought my daily driver, a 1987 ford crown Victoria new and have over 300,000 miles on the original engine. I replaced the tranny at 250,000.... It's pretty much in showroom condition and still rides great. Same average miles a year but I'm driving it every day keeping everything lubed. DW has the new car we bought in 2004 and that one averages 9000 miles a year as well but is driven every day too.

My poor Van.... I feel like I've neglected and abused it... But not anymore! From now on I'm going to show it the love and attention it deserves and spend some real quality time with it! (I'm a marriage and family counselor/minister. This is how my mind works.) thank you everyone!
Me & Her since 1977
TV 2014 Ford E350 Superduty
TT 2015 keystone Passport Elite 23RB
Boat 20' TriumphDC

Wes_Tausend
Explorer
Explorer
Anmacc2 wrote:
My van is burning oil because of rings. It is slowly getting worse. I am now burning 1qt per two tanks of gas. It is too big a job and too expensive and not worth it to me to fix it at this point. What will happen as the issue progresses? Will I just burn more and more oil? I only put maybe 9,000 miles a year on it.

Please stay to the topic and answer the specific question to help me. 🙂
I sincerely appreciate the generosity and caring of this site!!!

---
It only smokes when I first start it. After just a minute or two it stops. No residue on the fender or exhaust. Does that she'd more light?

---
I have one plug that fouls. Drivers side, third one back. I change it every 10-15 thousand miles when I develop a miss. Check engine light comes on occasionally. I put injector cleaner in the gas and run it down the hwy at 75mph for a hundred miles and it goes off at some point. Planning a 6000 mile road trip in the spring and hoping to nurse it through a couple more years.

As other have indicated, the most likely scenario for smoking upon start-up is worn stems & valve seals, usually accompanied by plugging of cylinder-head oil drain-back ports by sludge. The cold, thick rocker-arm oil builds up inside the valve covers until it pools and immerses the valve guides. The large vacuum present around the intake valve guides suck the oil directly into the intake until this rocker oil becomes warm enough to drain away quicker. Merely removing the valve covers and insuring the drain-back holes are not plugged may help with start-up oil issues.

The most likely scenario for an exceptionally fouled plug is a broken ring or unretained wrist pin which grooves the cylinder wall. Usually when the valve stems are worn, all the rings might be too. All this is exasperated by any past hard service and/or too long of oil service intervals.

The worn valve guides cause some oil-based carbon build-up in the cylinder head chambers which are also likely to cause some hard pinging or detonation under load because of raised compression ratios. This can cause broken piston lands/rings and is in fact the primary cause of such. This is a problem when such an engine is used for hard work such as towing.

FYI, one other enemy of occasional tow vehicles is extended non-use. Both dry valve stem surfaces and dry, shiny cylinder walls can develop rust and sticking from long periods of disuse. The rusted stems then damage both the seals and guides and the rusty cylinders tend to cause the rings to clog and jam from scraped rust debris. Ideally, engines that are not driven often would be stored by properly moth-balling the engines by at least coating the cylinder walls with an oily preservative upon last shut-down. Valves, buried beneath covers are not so easy to coat. After quite a number of years for instance, rusted valves can stick so bad the spring pressure may not reseat them without help.

Buying a used engine can be a chancy affair since the used engine may be in similar worn shape and a set major expense is the labor to swap them out. A new, or rebuilt long block only costs marginally more and labor is the same, but a more reliable fix. One then ends up with a used truck at less than used truck price, but with a new engine. This also makes a good argument against merely buying another similar used truck. Ideally one would drive most of their investment money back out in the long term and if not, resale has a slight advantage. It is also easier to justify installing a new transmission, or other drivetrain, should the need arise. And these repairs are still significantly less than a new truck.

Lastly, you can run for several years just by adding oil at the low mileage accumulation you have suggested. There is of course a lower reliability factor depending on just how bad the hidden wear has progressed. Remember, the timing chain, lifters, cam and bearings are probably not so great either, and such a worn engine is likely to have some oil leaks periodically cropping up, particularily from excess crankcase pressure caused by blow-by.

Wes
...
Days spent camping are not subtracted from one's total.
- 2019 Leprechaun 311FS Class C
- Linda, Wes and Quincy the Standard Brown Poodle

rjstractor
Nomad
Nomad
06Fargo wrote:
How many quarts of gas per how many quarts of oil, expressed in 2 cycle ratio.. 200:1?


I'd guess about 240:1- 2 tank of gas per quart= about 60 gallons per quart= 240:1. But if it smokes only on startup the ratio is not constant.
2017 VW Golf Alltrack
2000 Ford F250 7.3

noteven
Explorer III
Explorer III
How many quarts of gas per how many quarts of oil, expressed in 2 cycle ratio.. 200:1?

wilber1
Explorer
Explorer
Another way to check. Do a compression test then squirt a little oil into the cylinder. Do another compression test and if compression goes up, its rings. If it doesn't, more than than likely valve guides.
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC

2011 RAM 3500 SRW
2015 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

allen8106
Explorer
Explorer
Anmacc2 wrote:
pitch wrote:

Once you start smoking bad enough,,,,,


It only smokes when I first start it. After just a minute or two it stops. No residue on the fender or exhaust. Does that she'd more light?


That's just valve guide seals not rings. If it was rings it would smoke constantly while running.
2010 Eagle Super Lite 315RLDS
2018 GMC Sierra 3500HD 6.6L Duramax

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ktmrfs
Explorer
Explorer
Anmacc2 wrote:
pitch wrote:

Once you start smoking bad enough,,,,,


It only smokes when I first start it. After just a minute or two it stops. No residue on the fender or exhaust. Does that she'd more light?


I suspect the issue is bad valve guide seals not rings. Here is one way to check.

with the car in park give the throttle a good blip and raise the rev's to 3000 rpm or so. then foot off the throttle quick. If you see smoke when you back off the throttle, that indicates valve guides/seals. if you see smoke as you hit the throttle and it continues, and none when you back off the throttle, then rings.

if you see it under both, well, then it is likely rings and valve guides.

it sounds like it's valve guide(s) especiall one cylinder.
Good news is that usually is relatively easy and inexpensive to fix if it is just the seal. if the guide is gone, then more expensive needing to likely remove the head.

A good mechanic can figure out exactly what it is

BTW, chevy small blocks at least through the early 90's were known for having the valve guide seals get brittle and allow some smoking, usually not anywhere near what yours is. but it could be one cylinder is the culprint and has a seal that has gotten brittle enough to crack and allow lots of oil in.
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!

Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Explorer
Ok, I have some good news and some bad news for you.

The good news: I'm about 90% certain you don't have a ring problem. Rings are under heavy pressure and vacuum all the time. If it was a ring problem it would most likely smoke all the time and not just on startup.



Now for the bad news: That leaves two other real possibilities. #1. is a bad guide or more than one. #2. is the intake is warped and is sucking valley oil into the intake.

Either one of the above could cause one cylinder to foul. The best thing to do IMHO is to take it to a trusted mechanic and let him figure out what is going on.

As far as taking your trip. You can take it safely as long as you watch your oil level like a hawk. It will more than likely burn more oil under heavy load.
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~


"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"

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96Bounder30E
Explorer II
Explorer II
Moved from General RVing
Eric
96 Bounder 30E-F53(460)
stock Ford intake w/K&N air filter
used Thorley headers
new Banks resonator, muffler, tail pipe and 4" polished SS exhaust tip

Calicajun
Explorer
Explorer
Probem I see is getting it through a smog check if your state does smog checks.
2014 Heartland Wildness 2775RB, 2015 Ram 2500 4x4 Mega Cab

tpi
Explorer
Explorer
I too would look into a valve guide issue. Couple tip offs- the start up smoke and the fact one cylinder seems especially bad. Well worth fixing if valve guides/seals. Otherwise many oil burning engines will run a long time in that condition-provided you keep oil level correct. If it were mine I'd buy jugs of Delo or Rotella diesel spec lubricant.

Homer1
Explorer
Explorer
You say it only burns or smokes on start up. This would indicate to me that an oil seal on the valve stem is leaking. There is a test they can put on that, if it is valve seals, it is not that expensive to correct. Other wise you can drive it a long time burning oil, eventually it will get out of hand, but no catastrophe is going to occur. I have driven cars that burned a quart in 200 miles. I drove them until I could find a good replacement engine and just switched them out. These were cars i bought cheap to resell.

darsben
Explorer II
Explorer II
First get the problem properly diagnosed.
Then call the local schools and see if they have a auto repair program to train students to be auto mechanics.
Ask if they will take the van on as a project.
IN NY at BOCES it used to be you paid for parts labor was free. Have not done it in years but it used to be a deal.
MAybe similar in Florida
Traveling with my best friend my wife!