Tribute to Livin' Lite or Camp Lite....whatever

[Frank_Mehaffey]

Just a couple of thoughts for the TC industry on the sad demise of Livin Lite TC’s and trailers. Since 1981, my wife and I have owned 5 different campers, 3 of which were truck campers, 1 home made and 1 manufactured class C camper. We have had everything from plywood exteriors to the original aluminum siding to the bonded aluminum exterior aluminum. We have had wood frames, basically bulletproof Grumman aluminum(1958 van), aluminum frames sistered with wood, and our current all aluminum frame. We have seen exploded campers on the side of the road, rusted staples popping out of our manufactured campers, bounced on rotted wood floors, sagging ceilings, put on more roof vents than I can count, fixed totally inaccessible water pipes, ruptured hot water tanks, hit stumps while backing up, had 2 camper batteries overcharge while driving, shorted out electrical lines, had a front facing sleeper window explode all over the inside from a birdstrike, several flat tires (always on the rear), had to chase out field mice tip toeing in the ceiling while trying to sleep…the list is always growing. I have learned by reading, drilling, patching, butyling (if that is a word), Thompson water sealing, riveting, spraying truck bed liner on everything, duct taping, plywooding and doing everything that we have all done to keep our rigs on the road. Despite all the surprises, my wife and I have loved all our mis-adventures and travels over the years with all our dubious rigs.

We have gone to most of the New England Camper/RV shows in Boston and local RV shows in Vermont and have seen all of the TC models available in the northeast.

We had always had a used unit of some sort until 2015, when we purchased the Livin Lite 10’ non slide, basic camper. I mean BASIC. The year that our current rig was built, 2013, the Camp lite company had a hatred to all wood products, and our camper was a tribute to the healing power of aluminum, flux, solid insulation, plastic and whatever the heck azdel really is.

We had no stinkin’ graduate of a design school carefully match a gentle matte earth color of a cushion to the interior cabinets. We think the cushions fabric were from a Peruvian train wreck. The wet bath is a little too narrow for the proper spread of knees. Our over the stove cabinet(microwave space) is not a real rectangular 3D shape, but some sort of rhomboid thing. The cotton of the original cushions and bed were salvaged from the packing in the top of aspirin bottles. No Dutch craftsmen hand made tenons and hidden fastenings for the 15 pound cabinet doors. Nobody carefully vacuumed out the aluminum shavings. I think someone named Bubba did the oblong cabinet construction. But………

We have had no leaks, the walls don’t flex, it is very quiet inside, holds 2 gas bottles, has all the necessary appliances to keep you alive in the real wilderness or at Fort Wilderness. It weighs about 700 pounds less than any other 10’ camper we have seen. The Livin Lite 2013 TC required you to participate in the design and comfort process. What, no drawers for spoons and such, well, you just better go out and buy a couple of plastic pull our drawers to attach under the overhead cabinets, oh and by the way, do it yourself. No toilet paper holder, shut up and go to West Marine for a boat tp holder. Big open cabinets and closets with no shelves in them, be happy they put in a clothes rack and go get some plywood and make your own shelves and cubbies in the closets and stop whining. This camper is not the QE2 or even 1. It does exactly what it was intended to do. Make an outstanding camper with no frills. You want a frill, you make one. It was, and is, perfect. Don’t like the interior “refinements”, turn off the lights. You don’t have to be Steve Wozniak to put in the necessary mods, which kept the initial cost reasonable for a basically indestructible camper. You want a Ford F350 turbo diesel King Ranch with 6-7 doors…..go buy some big boy TC that the truck springs would actually feel. This camper is like a Ford F250 XL with roll down windows, vinyl floors and seats. Dog throws up, hose it out!

Thor can spin, and financial experts can shake their heads on why they could not make enough money to keep the Livin Lite division open. Hint….When they replaces the aluminum roof with azdel or whatever, and promoted REAL wood cabinets, they were already sipping the grape cool-aid.

I can’t afford a big ass lounge chair of a truck or the latest Star Trek inspired round door and radius window unit, complete with awning and escalator stairs. But I can appreciate a well built, really well built, basic TC, reasonably priced, and I am glad that my first and last really new camper was our Camp Lite, or Livin’ Lite. Our camper has both decals on it. Bubba must have been in a good mood that day.

[fiveeyes]

Some of the poster's, on here, should go the way LL did.

[wvabeer]

Here is my 2015 6.8c Glad I got one before they were discontinued.

[taycotrains]

We really love our 2016 9.2 !

We did have to buy a short bed truck to haul it properly.

It was built February 2016 so it was one of the last ones with a aluminum roof.

It's our 3rd camper in less than 4 years ...the first one was a "try out" the second one a "disaster" and the Camplite was the best decision we ever made !

[jimh406]

djg wrote:
jimh425 if you look at the picture I was down as far as I could go but with gusts over 80 mph it didn't take much of a crosswind to blow it over, direct side hits.

I did look at it. I was just pointing out that I didn’t think a heavier TC would blow over if lowered, too. I have a small sample, but I’ve had to keep my TC at storage lots over the years and even when we had 80 mph winds, it didn’t go anywhere. My TC has been sitting at my ranch other than limited trips for the past year and even with stronger winds still hasn’t moved. YMMV.

I’m sure there is a TC similar to mine that has blown over if not lowered. It seems like your TC with less basement isn’t as bottom heavy. Obviously lighter to carry, but my guess is more prone to wind effect. I suppose you could rig up some anchors if it will be in the same place on your property to minimize the impact. You might have already.

As far as this thread goes, there was no questions asked by the OP. No slam that I could find in this thread either. At least, not any where near what I’ve seen. Several people made comments which should be taken for what they are worth. Civil discussions are what this forum is about. Sure, sometimes we won’t agree. That’s ok though.

The majority of the posts are from a few people because the rest of you aren’t posting! That obviously puts the threads out of balance. Want it balanced, post more.

[djg]

jimh425 if you look at the picture I was down as far as I could go but with gusts over 80 mph it didn't take much of a crosswind to blow it over, direct side hits.

[Rocknita]

Frank I really enjoyed your post. We looked at them when we were shopping but the wife really didn’t care for the spartan interior. As for the snarky comments addressed to you it seems like some of the people on here have nothing else to do and think they have to give their 2 cents on every post. Get real tired of hearing from the same ones. But they know everything so I guess I should shut up.

[profdant139]

No, joerg, I am a native speaker and a North American, and I too am often mystified when the discussions turn sour.

It is really too bad that this happens so often. I clearly remember the bad old days before the Internet, and there was no resource like this forum available to people with technical questions. The forum is still useful, but it is not as pleasant as it could be if everyone were acting in good faith in an effort to answer each other's questions.

I have found that some of the brand-specific forums are somewhat less contentious -- I don't know why that would be.

And back on topic, it is hard to believe that there is no room in the market for bare-bones TCs and trailers. Notice that the Australians, with a much smaller overall domestic market, have a much broader range of models available.

[joerg68]

I enjoyed the original post a great deal. It was well written and funny in a way that spoke to me and my TC experiences. I actually failed to see where the discussion went off the deep end. The strong reactions of some posters caught me by surprise. Language and cultural differences, maybe. I am not a native speaker, and I am not even in North America.

So, apologies if something I wrote fueled the fire.

[Kayteg1]

joerg68 wrote:
Is there any TC out there that is really finished when it comes from the dealer lot?

My 2002 Fleetwood is pretty well done and regardless the damages it got over the years, I really like it.
I ended with 2nd camper last year when Fleetwood show too much dryrot, but even 12 foot Lance has convenient side door, I hate smaller bathroom and lack of counter space.
We took repaired Fleetwood last weekend to Goldfield festival and not only I was comfortable with huge countertop and dry bath where I could turn around without knocking anything down, but after finally working Glow Steps into right configuration - the rear entrance was no longer annoyment. Ducted AC brought quiet and nicer air distribution. We used less than 50% of available storage.
Watched mpg gauge pretty carefully as Fleetwood is not only heavier, but over 1 foot taller than Lance, but turn out getting basically the same 12 mpg +- 0.2
Not direct comparison to OP camper who can be carried on 250/2500 pickup, but good stuff does exist.
Just not too often.

[whazoo]

Frank Mehaffey wrote:
When people say or write, its nothing personal, it usually is. Everyone jumps around in threads once in a while, and if I did while answering a question or having a "conversation" with someone, why does that require a snarky comment from the same forum members, time after time. Social commentary is a sign of the times, and does not always show the best side of people. Bye bye......thud

Big time, and why so many good people have left rvnet, and now two more...

[profdant139]

Frank, for whatever it is worth, I thought that what you had to say was exactly on point: Not all of us want Cadillacs or Mercedeses or whatever -- remember the old days, when you could get a new stripped-down car or truck? Why don't they make the same thing in TCs or trailers -- basic, solid units that we can customize (or not) as we see fit?

And "butyling" is an example of the maxim that there is no noun that cannot be verbed. Although if the word is used as the subject of the sentence, then it is a gerund. Which is very cool -- a noun that gets turned into a verb that gets turned into a noun.

[Frank_Mehaffey]

When people say or write, its nothing personal, it usually is. Everyone jumps around in threads once in a while, and if I did while answering a question or having a "conversation" with someone, why does that require a snarky comment from the same forum members, time after time. Social commentary is a sign of the times, and does not always show the best side of people. Bye bye......thud

[jimh406]

Frank Mehaffey wrote:
Exactly, that is just what I meant. ... Sad

Don't take everything so personal. You jump around a bit in this thread, so others will jump around as well.

[joerg68]

Is there any TC out there that is really finished when it comes from the dealer lot? Part of TCing is making this thing just right for me, and though they were not big, I have made "improvements" to all three of my campers.

I think Livin' Lite made a good product, but for a niche in a niche market. Incorporating wood into their otherwise very puristic design probably did not help sales as much as it was supposed to do.

We will see if they return, or if someone else comes up with a similar product.