Trying to understand payload

[GalWithDawgs]

I have a travel trailer already but I want to buy a tow vehicle so before I go out and buy I want to understand thoroughly. I am starting with payload. I am looking at a 2007 Tundra 5.7L VV8 4 door 4 x 4 double cab. They claim the payload is 1,580. Am I to assume that from that 1,580 I must subtract the hitch weight of 720, my weight of 150, my dogs of 120, a full tank of gas, the receiver and ball, my ax, lipstick and anything else I might put in the truck? Am I right in this line of thinking? Am I missing something obvious that I should subtract?

Thank you for your help.

[APT]

Slow down GalWithDawgs. As you shop trucks, check out the as equipped payload by locating this sticker on the driver's door or door jam. Note what each prospective truck has where mine says 2051:



With 700 pounds dry TW, you will probably end up near 900 pounds loaded with camping gear, but some of that will be returned to the trailer's axles. 1500 pounds pounds of payload should be plenty. You may end up exceeding the GVWR/payload by a little, but the half tons do very well at or slightly over that rating.

I do not understand the aversion to domestic trucks. Do you realize Ford/GM/Ram combined sell about 15x the amount of full sized trucks as the Tundra? How many heavy duty trucks are used by businesses to haul/tow every mile? Do you think that many people just keeping buying******over any over? There's your consumer's reports, real world sales.

[Francesca_Knowl]

Ron (Lanerd) is 100% correct-o-mundo about weight distribution being different from sway control.

Many, many, MANY folks mistakenly believe otherwise, and too many have come to grief as a result of that misunderstanding. The discussion at this link is a perfect example...woman writes in all puzzled about what caused their sway-induced disaster and describes what are clearly her W/D bars as "sway control". Except that they're not, as she and her husband found out.

W/D setups do make a contribution to overall stability by way of restoring weight to the front end of the tug, but unless trailer sway control is incorporated into its design, W/D does not function for that purpose and must be added.

Here's a written-for-us-novices article on sway control/WD hitches and how they're used together: Link

[lanerd]

Oh boy. In 2004 I bought a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 and it came with these two big metal rod type things and seems to me one end of those rods attached to the back end of the truck and the other two near the trailer hitch. Those were anti sway things, right?

No...those are weight distribution bars...has nothing to do with sway.

I am feeling so much better now. What next should I be considering?

Ok, you're coming along just fine as you are learning there's quite a bit to towing a trailer. You now understand a little about weight distribution and how it works.

Sway control is the next thing you need to be aware of. There are several different types of sway control devices, a simple independent friction bar, a WD device that has friction sway control built in, and the more expensive mechanical sway control device.

The simple bars are very common but not real effective and only cost about $100 or less. The WD with built in sway control is more expensive, but works much better than the bar. In both cases, these devices help to control sway, but do not eliminate it. However the mechanical devices (like the Hensley Arrow) is very expensive....but, for all practical purposes, they will eliminate the possibility of sway.

So, depending upon how much you want to spend and how safe you want to be...will determine which route you will take.

Ron

[rider997]

GalWithDawgs wrote:
Boy-oh-boy. That payload is some important stuff, isn't it? I wonder if the Nissan Titan has a higher payload.

Well. A half-ton just isn't going to work out. All I can afford is a used truck and I just don't know if I can bring myself to buy a 3/4 ton used American made truck. Please don't jump on me. I've read the Consumer Reports and they just don't seem to have the reliability that Toyotas and Nissans do. At $16to $20K all I can get is probably someone's truck with 100,000+ miles on it. I'm uneasy with that.

The high price for high mileage trucks is because those 3/4 ton used American made trucks tend to go 250,000-300,000+ miles and therefore don't depreciate particularly quickly. 🙂

[AlbertaNewbie]

you should lookup how yota calcd the payload in 2007. they may already include a 150lb driver. after they adopt SAE J2807 towing standard the standard requires them to include a 150lb driver and 150lb passenger. my 2012 ram for instance includes a 150lb driver in the cyrb weight.

[westend]

fla-gypsy wrote:
Your reluctance to consider a domestic truck is too bad. Some offer much more payload when configured properly and they are very well made. You have limited your choices severely by buying into the deception about the superiority of foreign based trucks.

I agree with this but that doesn't mean that imports don't have some strengths. I've owned both and the Import was used mainly as a commuter vehicle. In that role, it shone. As a towing vehicle, not so much.

I think what most folks go for are the name brand, the bling, and then the economy. The Toyota trucks have most of that.

As is becoming shown here, there are a couple of different schools of thought about towing and ratings. Some folks think that towing/loading up to or even over the ratings is OK. The other school is that one should have plenty of "headroom" regarding the ratings and larger trucks are best. I know what works for me and that doesn't have to be for everybody but, IMO, hauling right on the edge of the weight ratings is going to effect the longevity of the vehicle. It may also effect safety.

[fla-gypsy]

Your reluctance to consider a domestic truck is too bad. Some offer much more payload when configured properly and they are very well made. You have limited your choices severely by buying into the deception about the superiority of foreign based trucks.

[GalWithDawgs]

I just finished watching this You Tube video where they guy has the same WE that I have in storage. I recognize it now. He was showing how to do it. I'll read more but it seems easier to understand now. If I have this right a weight distributor should raise up the hitch and back end of the truck just enough to redistribute some of the weight to the front and some to the back. If properly done breaking and control should be greatly improved over not doing it at all.


I am feeling so much better now. What next should I be considering?

[camp-n-family]

Ok. So I raaan over to learn a bit about weight distributors. Sure would be helpful to have a diagram. So far the only thing I think I understand is that we want the weight on the front axle to be nearly the same as on the rear axle of the tow vehicle and about the same on the trailer axle. 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Right? I just don't understand the gadget. I need a picture.

Ah ha! I think I had one of those on this trailer. I didn't sell it with the truck. I think it detached and is in the storage. Could I used the same one on a Tundra that I used on the Ram?

Not quite. When you hook a trailer to the back of your truck it acts like a lever. The tongue weight pushing down on the rear of the truck will reduce weight off the front axle of the truck. The idea of a weight distributing hitch is to return some or all of that lost weight back onto the front axle. For example if your tongue weight added 1000lbs to the trucks rear axle it could displace 200lbs off of your trucks front axle causing the steering to become light and control difficulty. Your aim is not to split the 1000lbs over the front and rear axles but to return some or all of the displaced 200lbs back onto the front. Some manufacturers say to return the front axle to the unhitched weight, others like Ford, say to return only 50% of the weight.

See here for diagrams/ explanation.

While leveraging some of the weight back onto the front axle you will also transfer a portion of the tongue weight back onto the trailers axles as well. Every truck, trailer and hitch combo will be different but rough estimates would have 60% added to the trucks rear axle while 20% gets returned to the trucks front axle and the other 20% gets distributed back onto the trailers axles.

If the hitch head is height adjustable (most are) you should be able to use it with another truck.

[GalWithDawgs]

Ok. So I raaan over to learn a bit about weight distributors. Sure would be helpful to have a diagram. So far the only thing I think I understand is that we want the weight on the front axle to be nearly the same as on the rear axle of the tow vehicle and about the same on the trailer axle. 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Right? I just don't understand the gadget. I need a picture.

Ah ha! I think I had one of those on this trailer. I didn't sell it with the truck. I think it detached and is in the storage. Could I used the same one on a Tundra that I used on the Ram?

[cyberiankhatru]

Don't do like I did. Went looking for a new truck and found something I liked. Looked at the payload info and discovered I already had more capacity in my current TV than the new one!

[tragusa3]

11 years ago I was just as afraid of domestics as you seem to be. I bought the truck anyway and drove it up until a few months ago. Outside of maintenance, I put all of $8 into the truck for a burnt out daytime running light. My towing needs outgrew that truck, otherwise I would have still been driving it and would take it anywhere to this day. I've driven imports all my life, but that Chevy was my all time favorite and most reliable vehicle.

It's still a gamble on the used market, but that's true of any brand. Assuming you take all precautions, I would open up my options.

[GalWithDawgs]

Ok. So I raaan over to learn a bit about weight distributors. Sure would be helpful to have a diagram. So far the only thing I think I understand is that we want the weight on the front axle to be nearly the same as on the rear axle of the tow vehicle and about the same on the trailer axle. 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Right? I just don't understand the gadget. I need a picture.

[camp-n-family]

Oh my Gawd! My dry weight on my trailer is 5,628 and I called StarCraft and they told me the hitch weight was 718. Are you saying that if I add 1,000 pounds inside the trailer that some of that 1,000 (12-15% of it) must also go on as hitch weight? Because if that is what you are saying then I would have to subtract 130 pounds more from the payload? Lets see...1580 (claimed payload) -150 (me)-120 (dogs)-130-718 (tongue weight). That leaves 462 and I don't even know what the receiver and ball weigh or what else I might put in the truck. I am kind of light on travel but still.

You'll be fine with the Tundra Double Cab. The payload rating should be around 1500lbs for that body style with options included.(check the door stickers for exact number) Since it's just you and some dogs in the truck you'll have plenty of payload left for the tongue weight, just load everything else in the trailer.

If the trailers dry weight is 5600lbs it'll be close to 6000lbs empty (as delivered with options). If you load 1000lbs of stuff into it (which is a lot for 1 person) you'll be up to 7000lbs. Well under what the Tundra can safely tow. At the average of 13% trailer weight on the tongue would give you around 900lbs. Call it another 100lbs for the weight of the hitch.

So 1580-150-120-900-100= 310lbs of payload left.

You can still add another 300+lbs before maxing out payload which is plenty to spare. You'll find similar results with most 1/2 ton trucks.