Unbraked trailer, towing limitations

[tealboy]

Hey folks, I’m looking for a new tow vehicle for a rig coming in at 2700 lbs, loaded, per the scale. I decided to trade down to a more modest unibody suv like the highlander, telluride or similar with tow ratings of 5000 lbs.vs my customary Tahoe or sequoia since I tow infrequently (3-4x/year).

However, I discovered something I was unaware of, these vehicles often come with a 1000lb limit when trailers are “Unbraked”. My trailer does not have brakes, seems many in this lower weight class don’t, though some do. My state law requires brakes at 3000lbs.

This discovery caused me to to rethink the mid size suv and go back to the sequoia or a Tahoe. I was shocked to realize the big sequoia with 7500 lbs tow rating is also limited to 1000 lbs Unbraked. The Tahoe is 2000 lbs. The gm line of 1500 series pickups also 2k.

Wow. It seems the manufacturers are providing very conservative figures for Unbraked trailers due to liability so no matter what I pick outside of a 2500 series, I am out of compliance with manufactures recommendations/requirements and potentially subject to liability in an accident even though I’m within state law.

I know this group is far more informed than average people relative to towing but I see tons of smaller to mid size trailers like mine, including many boats, without brakes and suspect most are totally unknowing of these low thresholds bc the manufactures brag about high tow ratings but you need to look much deeper for the Unbraked limits .

I’m not sure what to do now. Thoughts on the subject and your awareness of these vehicle limitations?

[JRscooby]

Me Again wrote:

Boomerweps wrote:

Me Again wrote:
It is taking a bit of miles to "seat" the new brake shoes to the drums. These are auto adjust brakes, and they adjust when you back up and stop.

Drum brake shoes still need to be initially adjusted so they just barely drag on the brake drum. The brake shoes will not self adjust easily if they have insufficient contact with the drum.
My first car had drum brakes and I was DIY for everything I could.

The kit came with the brakes adjusted to the point that I could barely slide the drum over the shoes, having to wiggle them a bit to get them on.

Most vehicles I have owned have had drum brakes, and I have always done my own brake work (Thinking about it, my current pickup, and 2 '68 Fiat Spiders are the only ones that did not have some drums) If I had to use a star wheel to adjust them I always adjusted tight enough needed to wiggle drum on. Once drum is in place, and bolted down, I would start adjusting.

[Me_Again]

Boomerweps wrote:

Me Again wrote:
It is taking a bit of miles to "seat" the new brake shoes to the drums. These are auto adjust brakes, and they adjust when you back up and stop.

Drum brake shoes still need to be initially adjusted so they just barely drag on the brake drum. The brake shoes will not self adjust easily if they have insufficient contact with the drum.
My first car had drum brakes and I was DIY for everything I could.

The kit came with the brakes adjusted to the point that I could barely slide the drum over the shoes, having to wiggle them a bit to get them on.

[Me_Again]

I will bet that there are gazillions of trailers in the 1500 lbs states running around without brakes. If hardly any manufacture puts brake on trailers under 3K, NONE would put brakes on a 1500 pound rated trailer.

[JRscooby]

Then there is the issue of accident in a state that requires brakes on your trailer?
Plus something that I think about. If the accident hurt or killed somebody could I look in the mirror knowing that the $400 spent on brakes might of if not prevented, at least reduced the impact?

[blt2ski]

Grit
Another thing I'm remembering from the CVEOs regarding braking requirements, they go axle gvw potential! So IF OP has a 3500 lb axle, that is the amount the LEO will go with, not the Emory partially loaded amount.

Will the OP get pulled over like a over 26000 gvwr rig, no. Potential is their!

You appear to be willing to gamble, more than some of us on this issue.

Marty

[blt2ski]

Grit dog wrote:
But to bring back the context that gets so easily lost with this group, Cops don’t give a schitt about a weekend warrior with a tiny canned ham camper.

Granted this thread has gone in multiple directions......

BUT, if OP goes into a state that has a lower trailer lbs than his, OR as noted by a Canadian, if OP puts surge brakes on his trailer, he would be illegal in those other jurisdictions.
Will he get pulled over at first scale across border and ticketed, probably not.

Nor is an RV trailer setup going to be generally speaking targeted for inspection or equal. BUT if an LRO equal passes the OP, sees he only has a typical 4wire bar electrical connection vs the typical thick wire 7 pin connector, they may slow down pull behind OP and inspect his trailer for working brakes per that jurisdictions laws.
I've been pulled over for an incorrect trailer to TV brakeaway wire connection. No ticket....

Up to OP if he wants brakes. Most of us that know and understand laws, will recommend him having brakes, for the lowest jurisdiction he will travel thru.

Marty

[Boomerweps]

Me Again wrote:
It is taking a bit of miles to "seat" the new brake shoes to the drums. These are auto adjust brakes, and they adjust when you back up and stop.

Drum brake shoes still need to be initially adjusted so they just barely drag on the brake drum. The brake shoes will not self adjust easily if they have insufficient contact with the drum.
My first car had drum brakes and I was DIY for everything I could.

[Grit_dog]

But to bring back the context that gets so easily lost with this group, Cops don’t give a schitt about a weekend warrior with a tiny canned ham camper.

[blt2ski]

Scooby

CVEO'S mentioned both, too long, and unbraked MH towing a car equal four down. If combo too long for WA St laws, no brakes on car. They had to be separate with in the state
Other issue was Texas at the time had a one axel brake requirement with tandems. They didn't worry about RV trailers, but cargo/flatbed style electric or surge brake trailers, a very high percentage were illegal per st law. When I was looking for a larger equipment trailer, the dealers carrying Texas made trailers were getting brakes put on the 2nd axel so they were legal here.
As being noted, it may be legal where you are, but not where you're going!

Marty

[JRscooby]

blt2ski wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Stir crazy.

You are correct, in that a vehicles GVW is guaged by braking. Or should we say, ONE OF the requirements to get a GVW.

You have also stated as others have, common sense says if your total is over the vehicles rated gvw, having brakes on the trailer is a good thing.

US braking laws for towed vehicles appears to be somewhere between 1000-4500 depending upon the jurisdiction you in. Generally speaking, unlike drivers licensing requirements, trailer brake requirements do not have reciprocity. Me traveling with a 3500 lb trailer where it could/would be legal in WA St, to a state with a 1000 lb requirement, could net me a moving violation ticket for no brakes. Then potentially paying for a flatbed to haul trailer to state line, shop to install brakes etc. I'll let reader decide if they want to gamble on this issue.

Marty

Except, even if one is not meeting the requirements of the state they’re in yet legal in the state they’re licensed in, I’m not certain it is not legal in the offending state.
But regardless, the trailer brake cops are NOT sitting at the state line waiting for tealboy to mosey on over with his nice little camper so they can bust him. Or anyone else, for that fact.

I would suggest you talk to a local leo/CVEO to verify if your correct, or per 3 CVEO'S I've had classes with that have said what I've stated.

Over the years I have paid fines for operating CMVs that where legal in home state, but not in the state I'm in. While I have never had a issue, a friend called me for help when his Mo legal MH and trailer was put OOS in Iowa because of over length. (Told him to unload SUV from trailer, tow MT trailer with SUV while spouse drives MH) He asked about lawyer to fight the fine, but think he found it cheaper to pay. Have heard Texas also will ticket long RVs
Now would that idea transfer to trailer brakes? IDK, but I would think how long it takes to stop is more important than how long it is.

[blt2ski]

Chris,
Can totally understand putting brakes on the trailer.

I made your state list clickable.

Marty

[Me_Again]

State by state trailer info.

https://trailers.com/state-laws/

[Me_Again]

blt2ski wrote:
My recommendation from past experience, if the trailer wieght puts you over the basic GVWR of the TV, adding brakes is a smart move.
I used to tow a 3000 lb max trailer with a 1 ton dually in landscape biz. Truck was loaded with yard debris, trailer mowers, 2-3 body's, total around 14000 lbs. Put brakes on trailer, we were stopping 10-20' sooner, brakes lasted longer etc.

As noted, if the axel has the square plate with four holes on it, you can add brakes from any auto parts, some Marine supply places, RV parts houses have or can get you brakes. While you can use your house battery as the power for run away brakes....you may want to get a smaller U1 battery for trailer brakes. Especially if you dry camp alot. If you take off with a drained battery that is below 11.5V, get an inspection from an LEO, you can get a failed brake ticket for to low of voltage. aNY of us can have this issue....chances are few with an RV vs someone pulling in a commercial usage.

Marty

I recently put brakes on my Primo 6x12 700 lb aluminum trailer with a 2990 GVWR and did not install a brake away switch or battery as Arizona where the trailer is licensed and Washington where the TV is licensed do not require brakes on trailers under 3000 lbs. The kit from Etrailer, junction box and 7 pin pigtail was less than 400. I was able to route the wires inside the side box rails and inside the A-frame hitch area. Kit was backing plates, new hubs with drums, bearings, seals, bolts and nuts to mount backing plates, axle nuts and lug nuts.

It is taking a bit of miles to "seat" the new brake shoes to the drums. These are auto adjust brakes, and they adjust when you back up and stop.

Last summer I towed the trailer North with my Can Am Spyder on it behind a 2020 Ford Edge ST.



I towed in back South behind a 2021 F150.



This is why I decided to install the brakes.

[blt2ski]

Grit dog wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Stir crazy.

You are correct, in that a vehicles GVW is guaged by braking. Or should we say, ONE OF the requirements to get a GVW.

You have also stated as others have, common sense says if your total is over the vehicles rated gvw, having brakes on the trailer is a good thing.

US braking laws for towed vehicles appears to be somewhere between 1000-4500 depending upon the jurisdiction you in. Generally speaking, unlike drivers licensing requirements, trailer brake requirements do not have reciprocity. Me traveling with a 3500 lb trailer where it could/would be legal in WA St, to a state with a 1000 lb requirement, could net me a moving violation ticket for no brakes. Then potentially paying for a flatbed to haul trailer to state line, shop to install brakes etc. I'll let reader decide if they want to gamble on this issue.

Marty

Except, even if one is not meeting the requirements of the state they’re in yet legal in the state they’re licensed in, I’m not certain it is not legal in the offending state.
But regardless, the trailer brake cops are NOT sitting at the state line waiting for tealboy to mosey on over with his nice little camper so they can bust him. Or anyone else, for that fact.

I would suggest you talk to a local leo/CVEO to verify if your correct, or per 3 CVEO'S I've had classes with that have said what I've stated.

[PButler96]

valhalla360 wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:
this doesnt realy come into question in Canada as every provence has variations but any trailer over 2000 to 3000 lbs must have an independent braking system installed (except newfoundland for some reason) and surge brakes dont meet the requirments of being able to be applied seperatly.

common sence thought would come into play that if you exceed the max GVW then you need braking as that number i partialy derived from braking power if I remember right.. might be wrong though..

Most states have a similar requirement but it appears manufacturers are saying it's even lower.

As stated earlier, my guess is they are more risk adverse when a trailer without brakes causes an accident. They can point to their manual that says the owner was over the limits.

Legally, the authorities can always get you for related issues such as driving too fast for conditions, unsafe loading...lots of gotchas if they for some reason decide you were pulling too much trailer.

The Forest River divisions that built popup campers, Palomino, Rockwood/Flagstaff, Coachmen etc, would rate the GVW of them at 2999 lbs when they shipped then to states that had a 3000 lb and above requirement for electric brakes. They have done this for years. This was done so they did not have to 8bcur the cost of providing them.