Wagner rotors and severe duty pads?

[Atlee]

Just got my truck inspected. The front brakes are nearly shot. The rear pads have over 50% of their life left.

I had already planned to put new pads at least on the truck before heading out to the Rockies next June. Now, I will be doing it sooner rather than later.

Let also say I'm not a mechanic. I will not be doing the brake work myself. I know it's much cheaper, but a man has to know his limitations.

My truck is a 2014 F150 XLT, SCAB, 4x4, long bed with Max Tow and Heavy Duty PP. I pull a 6500# GVWR trailer about 50% of the time.

I went to 3 installers the other day. My Ford dealer was going to charge $700 for turned roters, new servere duty pads, and a brake fluid flush.

The second place said $350 for the same service, but I got no print out of those prices, and the young guy behind the counter struck me as tripping on something. No confidence there.

The third place gave me a print out with the prices for brand new Wagner rotors and severe duty pads, and a fluid flush with heavy duty Dot 4 fluid for $500.

I'm inclined to go with #3. Just wondering if the Wagner rotors and severe duty pads are quality parts, and if $500 is out of the ball park?

Thanks.

[fj12ryder]

The only thing I've ever consciously avoided is light braking, as, IMO, this can lead to glazing. I usually brake a few times moderately hard with some cooling time between. I've never done as Tire Rack suggests and also have never had any of the symptoms they describe. All my brakes are usually doing very well within a hundred miles.

[babock]

Here is the correct procedure. Driving it easy is not what you want to do.

Brake Bedding Procedure

[time2roll]

The owners' manual will tell you to drive it nice for the first 200 or so miles to break in the brakes.
Best to do same at time the pads are changed.

[babock]

fj12ryder wrote:
But that could happen with new or turned rotors, so used rotors should have little effect if the pads are bedded in correctly.

If you don't turn used rotors and try to bed new pads onto rotors that has poor bedding already, you are doomed to failure.

The point is to do it right the first time. Just like the saying "There is never enough time to do it right the first time but always enough time to do it over again".

[fj12ryder]

babock wrote:
Most the time when people think they have warped rotors, it's actually the fault of not bedding in the new pads correctly. During bedding, there is a transfer of the pad material to the rotor. If the bedding wasn't done correctly, you will get areas of the disc that got it transferred and other areas that didn't. You get the pulsing brake pedal that feels like a warped rotor. That is also why it's so important to turn or use new rotors.

Your reasoning is a bit faulty, it seems to me. You say that the bedding in of new pads can cause pulsing if not done correctly. But that could happen with new or turned rotors, so used rotors should have little effect if the pads are bedded in correctly. If you feel that your brakes work better with all new parts, by all means go for it. Just don't advise others that it's necessary.

Pulsing brakes are a reason to change rotors. I've changed umpteen brake pads over the years and have never had a pulsing brake afterward. And I never change rotors without a reason.

[Grit_dog]

Atlee wrote:
Everything I have read says ceramic is not the pad to use if severe duty is in the forecast, and for me it definitely is.

What I've read says ceramic does not dissipate heat nearly as well as the semi-metallic.

The good qualities of the ceramic, easy on rotors and less dust do not out weight the good qualities of semi-metallic, which is greater heat resistance and designed for severe duty, which a month rummaging around the Rockies will be.

mt1729 wrote:
Ceramic pads.

“Some” ceramic pads are not for severe duty, but in general if a person buys the right pad for the application, the only potential down side is the cost of the pads themselves.
I never saw the benefit until a few years ago and it’s not a life changing benefit, but if I can get less brake dust and he same or better performance and longevity I’m in.
Ceramic lover here. Hate brake dust on wheels!

[babock]

Most the time when people think they have warped rotors, it's actually the fault of not bedding in the new pads correctly. During bedding, there is a transfer of the pad material to the rotor. If the bedding wasn't done correctly, you will get areas of the disc that got it transferred and other areas that didn't. You get the pulsing brake pedal that feels like a warped rotor. That is also why it's so important to turn or use new rotors.

[Cummins12V98]

99 Tahoe I put PowerSlot US made rotors and NAPA's Best Ceramic pads. In a short time the rotors warped. My brake/alignment guy for nearly 30 years said that was not the best application. He suggested GM OE pads and the rest is history.

[Atlee]

Everything I have read says ceramic is not the pad to use if severe duty is in the forecast, and for me it definitely is.

What I've read says ceramic does not dissipate heat nearly as well as the semi-metallic.

The good qualities of the ceramic, easy on rotors and less dust do not out weight the good qualities of semi-metallic, which is greater heat resistance and designed for severe duty, which a month rummaging around the Rockies will be.

mt1729 wrote:
Ceramic pads.

[time2roll]

If you replace calipers at every pad change they are not lasting very long at all.
OP is at 47,000 miles.

[babock]

Grit dog wrote:
but new hardware,

Assume you meany "buy". The hardware kits are anywhere from $6 to $15 per axle. It's typically the slides that the pads ride on, anti rattle clips, small pieces that help hold the pad away from the rotor and possibly slide pin boots.

It does not surprise me that you aren't replacing these. Just pointing it out to the others that don't want to do a half aZZ job as another poster mentioned.

As far as rebuilding calipers, I would never rebuild a caliper even if it has failed. OEM new calipers are not that expensive and they last a LONG time.

[BenK]

Calipers are not that expensive these days and have stopped rebuilding them decades ago

The OP's shop will have a lower cost than this one from NAPA at $70.19 each (left and right)

NAPA Brake Caliper w/ Hardware - Left Front (Eclipse Semi-Loaded) - Remfd

The pricing from both the OP's dealer and independent are in the range around here in The SF Bayarea. Most of the costing will be labor

Brakes are not to be taken lightly, nor for the novice without a mechanic overseeing the work & final inspection.

[Grit_dog]

babock wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
You can scuff up a set of rotors with a piece of Emory cloth in like 2 minutes and less than $1.

Most emory cloth uses an aluminum oxide abrasive. That's the last material you want to use as the abrasive gets embedded in the cast iron of the rotor.

My machine shop charges a whole $10 to turn a rotor. A good machine shop takes very little material off. I have a car that I have turned the rotors 3 times. I finally replaced the rotors at 200K.

My brother is an auto dealer and runs auto auctions. He subscribes to a professional trade magazine. Every article about brakes says to either turn or replace rotors to prevent come backs. Dealers don't do "pad slaps", why should you? AND it's not just about making more money..I can already hear people saying this.

I also buy a new hardware kit whenever I replace pads.

Well different strokes for different folks. Just stating what works for me.
Just because I could buy a new car every time the brakes wear out doesn’t mean I spend more than necessary.
Now we’re talking brake pad swap on an otherwise healthy system. Different conditions require different work, but to turn or replace rotors, but new hardware, and flush the fluid and rebuild the calipers everytime a set of brake pads goes on is just silly.

Idk, I got 160k on my original rotors on the 07 Dodge.
On 3rd set of front pads, 2nd set of rears. Yes I’ve replaced brakes fluid several years ago. Used the easy method of replacing what’s in the master cyl several times until it stays clear but flushing is truly he right method there I believe.
Still on original rotors and none have even come off the truck except to do unjoints last month.
No “wrong” way, just some ways are more economical for the same end benefit.

[fj12ryder]

rhagfo wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
Rhagfo, we'll just have to agree to disagree. And $500-$700 is not what I would call "cheap insurance".

I will agree that $700 for a single axle is high, but the OP's post stated replacing rotors and pads and fluid flush, I think a good shop could do for less than $500. It is no longer the cost of parts, it is shop labor cost.

I do agree with that.

[rhagfo]

fj12ryder wrote:
Rhagfo, we'll just have to agree to disagree. And $500-$700 is not what I would call "cheap insurance".

I will agree that $700 for a single axle is high, but the OP's post stated replacing rotors and pads and fluid flush, I think a good shop could do for less than $500. It is no longer the cost of parts, it is shop labor cost.