Wagner rotors and severe duty pads?

[Atlee]

Just got my truck inspected. The front brakes are nearly shot. The rear pads have over 50% of their life left.

I had already planned to put new pads at least on the truck before heading out to the Rockies next June. Now, I will be doing it sooner rather than later.

Let also say I'm not a mechanic. I will not be doing the brake work myself. I know it's much cheaper, but a man has to know his limitations.

My truck is a 2014 F150 XLT, SCAB, 4x4, long bed with Max Tow and Heavy Duty PP. I pull a 6500# GVWR trailer about 50% of the time.

I went to 3 installers the other day. My Ford dealer was going to charge $700 for turned roters, new servere duty pads, and a brake fluid flush.

The second place said $350 for the same service, but I got no print out of those prices, and the young guy behind the counter struck me as tripping on something. No confidence there.

The third place gave me a print out with the prices for brand new Wagner rotors and severe duty pads, and a fluid flush with heavy duty Dot 4 fluid for $500.

I'm inclined to go with #3. Just wondering if the Wagner rotors and severe duty pads are quality parts, and if $500 is out of the ball park?

Thanks.

[fj12ryder]

Rhagfo, we'll just have to agree to disagree. And $500-$700 is not what I would call "cheap insurance".

[rhagfo]

fj12ryder wrote:
You don't say how many miles you have on the truck. Why change the rotors if they are within their service limits, and not warped? A good set of brake pads can be had for around $50. And I wouldn't mess with the rears if there is 50 percent life. I certainly wouldn't pay to have the rotors turned.

Brake jobs are an easy job, and easy money for a shop. $700 is nuts, but $500 is probably what a decent shop will charge you. Just figure you're spending about $300 for the labor.

I'm too frugal to needlessly spend money just for the sake of spending money.

fj12ryder wrote:
I wouldn't use emery paper but if the rotors are really shiny I might use a coarse ScotchBright pad. I suppose 400 grit emery would work okay, but the ScotchBright pads are easier to find, and cheaper. Personally I've never used anything, but that's me.

fj12ryder wrote:

rhagfo wrote:
Interesting that in four pages of discussion of about brakes, rotors and pads, no one has mentioned replacing or rebuilding the calipers!
The one time I didn’t rebuild the calipers (I was young and cash short) later one caliper froze up. I have with that exception always rebuilt the calipers quick and easy.
Always replace or turn rotors and because I open the system for the caliper rebuild, flush the fluid.
It amazes me the many post just put in new pads and call it good! Brakes are a life and death function on your TV, why cheap out!

To the OP: if your brakes are shot at 45K miles, you best flush the fluid as has likely been cooked many times.
Our 79 F250 got over 80k miles brakes, DW 91 Ranger got over 100K on OEM brakes.

No one mentioned it because it needs to done rarely. Definitely falls under the heading of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

"why cheap out". Why spend money unnecessarily? It's not being cheap it's being sensible. If you have lots and lots of disposable income and need to find someplace to spend it, then replace all parts with new every time, but it usually just isn't necessary.

:h

Fj12ryder, to me and I am sure many others doing a complete brake service rather than just replacing a set of pads is cheap insurance. I have made some interesting finds when rebuilding my calipers over the years, mostly that dried brake fluid on the part of the piston that has passed beyond the piston seal, this is even when the outside seals were in good shape.So if all you do is compress the pistons back through the seals, you can create leaks.
The most interesting thing I found was a cylinder bore that had a fairly large burr in it making a deep scratch in the piston. I simply ground down the burr and replaced the piston.
No don't have a lot of disposable income, but when I work on a system like brakes I do spend what is necessary to do a complete and safe job.

The OP should be a bit concerned as having brakes needing replacing at 45K miles now days is a pretty short life. Could be the load he is carrying or bad driving habits. either way, likely best to replace the rotors, pads, rebuild calipers and flush the system.

[mt1729]

Ceramic pads.

[jus2shy]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
There is the proper way and there is the 1/2 AZZ way. They both work but one will perform better from the start and last longer. Kinda like back in the day when they used to arch the shoes to match the drums.

Still is done in our vehicle shop for HD vehicles

[fj12ryder]

rhagfo wrote:
Interesting that in four pages of discussion of about brakes, rotors and pads, no one has mentioned replacing or rebuilding the calipers!
The one time I didn’t rebuild the calipers (I was young and cash short) later one caliper froze up. I have with that exception always rebuilt the calipers quick and easy.
Always replace or turn rotors and because I open the system for the caliper rebuild, flush the fluid.
It amazes me the many post just put in new pads and call it good! Brakes are a life and death function on your TV, why cheap out!

To the OP: if your brakes are shot at 45K miles, you best flush the fluid as has likely been cooked many times.
Our 79 F250 got over 80k miles brakes, DW 91 Ranger got over 100K on OEM brakes.

No one mentioned it because it needs to done rarely. Definitely falls under the heading of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

"why cheap out". Why spend money unnecessarily? It's not being cheap it's being sensible. If you have lots and lots of disposable income and need to find someplace to spend it, then replace all parts with new every time, but it usually just isn't necessary.

[Atlee]

Thank for all the replies. A lot for me to think about.

[rhagfo]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
There is the proper way and there is the 1/2 AZZ way. They both work but one will perform better from the start and last longer. Kinda like back in the day when they used to arch the shoes to match the drums.

So well stated!

[rhagfo]

Interesting that in four pages of discussion of about brakes, rotors and pads, no one has mentioned replacing or rebuilding the calipers!
The one time I didn’t rebuild the calipers (I was young and cash short) later one caliper froze up. I have with that exception always rebuilt the calipers quick and easy.
Always replace or turn rotors and because I open the system for the caliper rebuild, flush the fluid.
It amazes me the many post just put in new pads and call it good! Brakes are a life and death function on your TV, why cheap out!

To the OP: if your brakes are shot at 45K miles, you best flush the fluid as has likely been cooked many times.
Our 79 F250 got over 80k miles brakes, DW 91 Ranger got over 100K on OEM brakes.

[Cummins12V98]

There is the proper way and there is the 1/2 AZZ way. They both work but one will perform better from the start and last longer. Kinda like back in the day when they used to arch the shoes to match the drums.

[BenK]

Brain fart on my part...babock is right...Garnet paper is the proper material to use on brake rotors...

Don't use any of them, as the friction material will take care of it after few miles.

[babock]

Grit dog wrote:
You can scuff up a set of rotors with a piece of Emory cloth in like 2 minutes and less than $1.

Most emory cloth uses an aluminum oxide abrasive. That's the last material you want to use as the abrasive gets embedded in the cast iron of the rotor.

My machine shop charges a whole $10 to turn a rotor. A good machine shop takes very little material off. I have a car that I have turned the rotors 3 times. I finally replaced the rotors at 200K.

My brother is an auto dealer and runs auto auctions. He subscribes to a professional trade magazine. Every article about brakes says to either turn or replace rotors to prevent come backs. Dealers don't do "pad slaps", why should you? AND it's not just about making more money..I can already hear people saying this.

I also buy a new hardware kit whenever I replace pads.

[time2roll]

I remember watching a mobile guy turn rotors. After the lathe he would hit each side with a hand held rotary sander while the machine continued to rotate the rotor still on the car. Very course grit. Looked like a factory finish when done.

[BenK]

For performance to full race level of brake material...emery cloth is the only recommendation...sandpaper is NOT recommended...as it leaves abrasives not good for the friction material and accelerate the wear on rotors

Stick to OEM or HD versions, but not drilled. Slotted is okay, but not for most who drive sanely... Have tried cryogenic frozen and did not see any improvement...my rotors still heat checked badly and they too cracked clean through...just like the OEMs did. Heat checking is the surface cracks from ripping it apart from severe braking...many times

Agree, today's rotors are designed to lower both their cost and material mass. So I don't recommend turning them as a general rule of thumb.

The higher up the food-chain/class of friction material..the faster your rotors will wear out. Nature of how it works

Ceramic is okay, but too dependent on the formulation. From particle size/shape, amount in the friction mix (100% would be pure race, but needs to heat up to be safe on public roads), to the blend of other friction materials used & binder composition

Old time buddy became a dad with his 2nd wife, so closed his braking consulting business and went to work for one of the biggies...no more "try these out and tell me what you think" wonder stuff. Now testing out which OEM I like. Hawk is currently being tested on my Sub

Check out how the advisors drive, what you drive, where they drive, how heavy, etc, etc to make your own mind. There continues to be no 'one size fits all'...it depends on how you drive, what you drive, where you drive, etc, etc...

[fj12ryder]

I wouldn't use emery paper but if the rotors are really shiny I might use a coarse ScotchBright pad. I suppose 400 grit emery would work okay, but the ScotchBright pads are easier to find, and cheaper. Personally I've never used anything, but that's me.

[danrclem]

If keeping the used rotors it might be a good idea to measure the width to see if they're still in spec. More than likely they will be.

Like somebody said earlier if they're in good shape just scuff them up with some emery cloth.