What can I safely tow?

[7_3diesel]

TRUCK: 1997 F-250 Heavy Duty 7.3L Powerstroke 4x4.

There seems to be lots of detailed information about weight (dry v. loaded, what the truck's rated at, etc). According to Ford, provided I'm reading the document right, the GCWR for a 1997 4x4 manual 7.3L F-250 is 20,000lbs & 14,000 trailer weight. What is the maximum weight I can safely tow?

So I'm just now starting to investigate fifth wheels & I have a few novice questions that I'm hoping the community can help me with:

What modifications, if any, will improve ride quality & safety of my 1997 F-250 Heavy Duty 7.3L Powerstroke 4x4 when hauling a 5th wheel?
I'm currently looking into the TorkLift StableLoad, sway bars, add-a-springs, helper-spring kits, airbags & tires. I'm starting to get a bit overwhelmed and afraid of being sold something at the RV dealership that I can't safely tow... Does anyone have any recommendations on any of these mods?

Roughly at what trailer weight do people need to upgrade duallies?

Any experienced recommendations, suggestions & stories are much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[7_3diesel]

TXiceman wrote:
This generally means trailer in the 30 to 32' maximum length.

This was the conclusion I came to last night after doing a lot of math.

[TXiceman]

7.3diesel wrote:
So I went 5th wheel shopping yesterday & looking at the sticker on the 5th wheel I noticed that the trailers had their own GVWR ranging from 7,000 to 16,000 lbs.
What does this rating mean?
Is this the 5th wheel's so called "dry weight"? If not, where do I find the dry weight?
According to a lot of salespeople I talked to yesterday, "a 3/4 ton truck can pull anything but a fully loaded toy hauler". I don't trust them.
What numbers on the trailer to I need to be looking at?

First thing is to ignore the salesman. They lie as their job is to sell trailer, not make sure you have enough tow vehicle.

Forget the dray weight as it is a meaningless number. It does not include any item listed in the brochure as an option. This includes things like the A/C, microwave, awning, batteries, TV etc. An optioned trailer can go 500 to 1000# over the "dry weight" and then you add supplies.

Look at the trailers GVWR since this is the maximum the trailer is rated to weigh with all get, water, etc on board.

Realistically, you need to look at trailers with a GVWR of about 12,000# maximum provided the 20% pin weight does not take your truckl over the GVWR or rear axle GAWR. This generally means trailer in the 30 to 32' maximum length.

I had a 2002 F350 crew cab dually and the truck was a bit over 8100# fueled and ready to hitch up to the trailer.

Ken

[rowekmr]

Some people go (shop) off of published ratings without ever weighing truck and/or trailer. It's not the most precise method but if you allow a healthy safety margin it is doable.

lawrosa wrote:
Dont know how or why you are going 5th wheel shopping when you did not weigh the truck...

Get the weights as I posted and you will know exactly what you can tow..

Its 10000 lbs for TT and 13500 for 5th wheel.. But thats with an automatic.. Thats per the tow rating list I found for your truck...


WE ASSUME YOU HAVE 3:73'S as all the 7.3 turbo diesals list this..

I think a manual trans will reduce this weight..

And as said pin weight and axles weights will be the issues..

Want to know what you can tow??

Go weigh the truck with full tank of gas and you in it... Get seperate axle weights at a cat scale..

Post back those #'s with the axle weights on the door tag of the truck.

And post the tire weight ratings at max inflation from the side wall...

[jus2shy]

7.3diesel wrote:
So I went 5th wheel shopping yesterday & looking at the sticker on the 5th wheel I noticed that the trailers had their own GVWR ranging from 7,000 to 16,000 lbs.
What does this rating mean?
Is this the 5th wheel's so called "dry weight"? If not, where do I find the dry weight?
According to a lot of salespeople I talked to yesterday, "a 3/4 ton truck can pull anything but a fully loaded toy hauler". I don't trust them.
What numbers on the trailer to I need to be looking at?

GVWR of a trailer is the entire weight of the trailer + its payload. That's how much weight-in-total that the trailer can safely support according to the manufacturer.

[lawrosa]

Dont know how or why you are going 5th wheel shopping when you did not weigh the truck...

Get the weights as I posted and you will know exactly what you can tow..

Its 10000 lbs for TT and 13500 for 5th wheel.. But thats with an automatic.. Thats per the tow rating list I found for your truck...


WE ASSUME YOU HAVE 3:73'S as all the 7.3 turbo diesals list this..

I think a manual trans will reduce this weight..

And as said pin weight and axles weights will be the issues..

Want to know what you can tow??

Go weigh the truck with full tank of gas and you in it... Get seperate axle weights at a cat scale..

Post back those #'s with the axle weights on the door tag of the truck.

And post the tire weight ratings at max inflation from the side wall...

[7_3diesel]

I think I figured it out!
Data stickers & Understanding ratings

So, as I understand these explanations, the trailer's GVWR is not the same as the trailer's UVW.
The trailer's GVWR is the maximum weight the trailer's axles can handle: weight of the trailer + weight of (potentially) a lot of cargo is the maximum weight the trailer can safely have on its own axles.
The more important numbers to look at on the trailer, in order to know if the truck can tow it, is the Unloaded Vehicle Weight (UVW) & the Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC). We need to add the the UVW + what we think our CCC's going to be to know if we can to it or not. GVWR means nothing for towing.
Example:
UVW of trailer: 7,000 lbs
CCC of trailer: 2,000 lbs
GVWR of trailer: 14,000 lbs
GVWR of truck: 10,000 lbs according to people I trust & 13,800 according to manufacturer
Since UVW + CCC = 9,000 lbs we are under 10,000 lbs. Conclusion: we can safely tow it!
In this case, if the CCC is 3,001 lbs + UVW = 10,001 probably unsafe for my truck to tow.
In this case, if the CCC is 7,001 lbs + UVW = 14,001 probably unsafe for the trailer to carry this much cargo.

This calculation does not take into account GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) of truck. Which is just as important to calculate. The truck's Front Axle Weight Rating (FAWR) is 4,600 lb & it's Rear Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) is 6,084 lb.
The trailer will have 20-25% of its weight on the truck's axles (front & rear, but mostly rear).
In this case if our UVW + CCC = 9,000 lbs the Hitch Pin / Tongue Weight (the weight the truck's axles can hold with a fully loaded trailer pushing down on the 5th wheel hitch) is 1,800-2,250 lbs. The truck's axles can easily take it!
🙂

[blt2ski]

Safe is a matter of opinion. I could be unsafe with a single axle trailer at 2500 lbs with ALL the payload in the back of the trailer, with it fish tail swaying back and forth. This little trailer COULD put you in the ditch!

Meanwhile, the person that has thing balanced out, at 5times that weight is doing just fine! Weight IMHO is not all the end all be all of towing.

Some will say unsafe is going up a hill at 50 mph. Others are happy on a freeway grade of 30-40 mph. 30-40 would be unsafe to the person wanting to go at least 50 all the time!

With this in mind. The trailer gvwr you saw is the total of the axels gvwr. You then have your hitch wt % above this for a max you can load the trailer.

Most trailers if you look in a kitchen cabinet, have a as weighed at the factory with those options, LP, water full etc, then a remaining payload after this.

If you are full timing, a trailer with more payload will be a plus over one with less, and higher axel ratings.

Marty

[7_3diesel]

So I went 5th wheel shopping yesterday & looking at the sticker on the 5th wheel I noticed that the trailers had their own GVWR ranging from 7,000 to 16,000 lbs.
What does this rating mean?
Is this the 5th wheel's so called "dry weight"? If not, where do I find the dry weight?
According to a lot of salespeople I talked to yesterday, "a 3/4 ton truck can pull anything but a fully loaded toy hauler". I don't trust them.
What numbers on the trailer to I need to be looking at?

[Slated4Greatnes]

7.3diesel wrote:

Slated4Greatness wrote:

An upgraded HPOP (High pressure oil pump) such as the adrenaline from Dieselsite is worth it's weight in gold.
A modded IDM is also something that will dramatically increse your ease of towing.

Thanks, any recommendations on HPOP & IDM brands?

Here are the links to the ones that I know and like.

http://www.dieselsite.com/1994-200373ldieselsiteadrenalinehpop.aspx

http://www.swampsdiesel.com/IDM/IDM%20Models.htm

[7_3diesel]

Slated4Greatness wrote:

An upgraded HPOP (High pressure oil pump) such as the adrenaline from Dieselsite is worth it's weight in gold.
A modded IDM is also something that will dramatically increse your ease of towing.

Thanks, any recommendations on HPOP & IDM brands?

[7_3diesel]

06Fargo wrote:

7.3diesel wrote:
...Previous owners have towed both fifth wheels & bumper-pull TTs with it..

If you aren't trying to Super-size what previous owners towed - and could do a test tow - you would kind of have a base to start from rather than doing mod$ you might not need...

That's what I'm going to do. Of course I will still have to get mirrors.
I guess what I'm worried about is that as a "full-timer" I'm going to be weighing the trailer down a lot more than they ever did.

[7_3diesel]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Cold air is not going to do anything for this engine. Save the money on the thermal wrap for a good intercooler or tuner. It won't do anything either. #3 The crank sensor can be problematic. (again, this can be fixed)...get a new spare crank sensor. It tells the puter what position the crank and cam is in. Ford dealer. Sorry, this advice was for an auto. If you have a manual you are in much better shape.
If you get a tuner and an intercooler it will wake this truck up. And as said above you need to get the intercooler to keep the charge cool. And you need to get a tuner to give it more fuel. IOW's you need both.

I've already got the thermal wrap (it was inexpensive).
The previous owner gave me the tuner & showed me how to use it. It's got 2 tow modes apparently.
I'll start researching intercoolers. Thanks again for the advice.

[Slated4Greatnes]

IMHO..

First and foremost if you don't have them gauges including EGT, and Boost.

An upgraded HPOP (High pressure oil pump) such as the adrenaline from Dieselsite is worth it's weight in gold.

A modded IDM is also something that will dramatically increse your ease of towing.

Get custom tunes from Jody Tipton @ DP-Tuner

The air bags are a must do in my opinion especially with a 250.

The intercooler can be purchased used from a newer 7.3 (99.5 to 2003) but you will have other items that will need to be purchased as well. This is a must do item for controlling EGT's.

The sensor that was mentioned is actually a Cam Position Sensor (CPS) and yes you need to put a spare (Motorcraft version only) and a 10mm wrench in the glove box. These aren't more than $25 any more so it is cheap insurance.

Water injection is really nice if it is in the budget but not mandatory by any means.

A quality exhaust system is also on the must do list.

Change all of the fluids and use only Motorcraft filters.

[noteven]

7.3diesel wrote:
...Previous owners have towed both fifth wheels & bumper-pull TTs with it..

If you aren't trying to Super-size what previous owners towed - and could do a test tow - you would kind of have a base to start from rather than doing mod$ you might not need...