Who has switched from a '16+ max tow F150 to a '16+ HD F150?

[johndeerefarmer]

I am looking for people that had an aluminum bodied max tow F150 and moved over to a HD F150. If so how much more stable is the HD version vs the max tow version for towing, and specifically towing in the wind?

I currently have two trucks and two RV's and within the next year and a half or so need to move to a single truck and RV.

I would consider trading both trucks for a HD F150 if I knew it would tow the 29rs in 15-20 mph winds. Since I am retired from farming I no longer have much heavy stuff to tow. I bought the 16 F250 last year to specifically haul my 29rs to Colorado because I knew trying to do it in the west Texas winds would be a nightmare. The vacation home should be done in a year or so, so at that time I need to bring the 29rs home and at that point sell some RV's or trucks

Thanks

[johndeerefarmer]

Fishwater wrote:

johndeerefarmer wrote:
I am looking for people that had an aluminum bodied max tow F150 and moved over to a HD F150. If so how much more stable is the HD version vs the max tow version for towing, and specifically towing in the wind?

I currently have two trucks and two RV's and within the next year and a half or so need to move to a single truck and RV.

I would consider trading both trucks for a HD F150 if I knew it would tow the 29rs in 15-20 mph winds. Since I am retired from farming I no longer have much heavy stuff to tow. I bought the 16 F250 last year to specifically haul my 29rs to Colorado because I knew trying to do it in the west Texas winds would be a nightmare. The vacation home should be done in a year or so, so at that time I need to bring the 29rs home and at that point sell some RV's or trucks

Thanks

I would suggest that you test drive a new F250 vs your 2016. I just upgraded(downgraded?) from a 2015 F350 to a 2019 F250 & the ride is noticeably better. I think some of it may be that I had 20’s on the 15 & now have 18’s but either way it’s a noticeable improvement. Both my daughters & my wife can get car sickness, especially while towing. We just completed a trip of 1100 miles towing the fiver & no one got sick, everyone felt the new truck rode much better so you have nothing to loose by road testing one, may not beat your elbows up as much?

I actually bought a '17 when the new design first came out. The steering was so hard to turn that I kept it only three months and sold it. When I needed to take my larger camper to Colorado I bought this '16 F250 used as the steering is easier to turn.

The problem with a test drive is if my arms aren't hurting at the moment it takes some time to get them irritated again. About the only way I could really test one is to do an extended test with one and it would be better if I was towing.

I have had a 15 F350, then a 16 F150, then 17 F350 and now a 17 F150 and 16 F250. I have went through this cycle several times and it cost me a fortune every time. Once my arms get to hurting and won't stop I get depressed and would do or buy anything to make them stop. I would buy the Super Duty because I needed the bigger truck for stability when towing, then when my arms get to hurting from driving it, sell it and buy a F150. Then later need the big truck and trade again. This time I decided to just have both. The girlfriend is driving the F250 and I only drive it when we travel and tow. She has to do half the driving. The truck has 75k miles. In the next year and a half or so I need to get rid of one of the trucks and get her a car or small SUV.

I also test drove a Chevy for a few minutes and as I hit some bumps in the road could feel the steering wheel shake. I had hoped that the IFS on the Chevy was better

[danrclem]

johndeerefarmer wrote:

AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:
As you already know the HDPP has heavier axles, heavier suspension, heavier shocks and LT E tires. Provided you were staying within rear axle rating and you already had LT E tires I would consider Timbrens which will provide additional suspension without impacting the unloaded ride and putting on some Bilstien shocks. That would give you a pretty good idea of how the HDPP would handle before making a large $ decision. I would run a good WD hitch.

Good luck,
Stu

I have Bilstein 4600's on the rear, I haven't replaced the front yet.

I just can't imagine how having a stiffer suspension would help with stability in the wind- which is my problem. Now if I was hitting a bump and it was bouncing excessively or from side to side I would say I needed heavier springs,etc. That's not the problem.

I have bad tendonitis in both elbows, the solid front axle of the F250 transfers dips, bumps in the road back to the steering wheel. This excessive movement of the steering wheel increases the inflammation in my elbows so I can't drive as far. The EPS in the F150 is way better. On the F250 (I have had several) I have tried dual steering stabilizers as well as the Bilstein adjustable ($475 one). They don't help much at all

Both of my campers are fifth wheels

Does your F250 have the snow plow package? If it does it may be why it transfers dips and bumps to the steering wheel. I have the snow plow package and the only place that I notice unwanted transfers is when I go over a patch of rough road but I don't have tendonitis so I may not notice it as much. There was a person on here who switched his front snow plow package springs out for lighter ones with success. I hope that you're able to find something that will work for you.

[Fishwater]

johndeerefarmer wrote:
I am looking for people that had an aluminum bodied max tow F150 and moved over to a HD F150. If so how much more stable is the HD version vs the max tow version for towing, and specifically towing in the wind?

I currently have two trucks and two RV's and within the next year and a half or so need to move to a single truck and RV.

I would consider trading both trucks for a HD F150 if I knew it would tow the 29rs in 15-20 mph winds. Since I am retired from farming I no longer have much heavy stuff to tow. I bought the 16 F250 last year to specifically haul my 29rs to Colorado because I knew trying to do it in the west Texas winds would be a nightmare. The vacation home should be done in a year or so, so at that time I need to bring the 29rs home and at that point sell some RV's or trucks

Thanks

I would suggest that you test drive a new F250 vs your 2016. I just upgraded(downgraded?) from a 2015 F350 to a 2019 F250 & the ride is noticeably better. I think some of it may be that I had 20’s on the 15 & now have 18’s but either way it’s a noticeable improvement. Both my daughters & my wife can get car sickness, especially while towing. We just completed a trip of 1100 miles towing the fiver & no one got sick, everyone felt the new truck rode much better so you have nothing to loose by road testing one, may not beat your elbows up as much?

[Groover]

lbrjet wrote:
I would keep the F250 and be done with it.

"I have bad tendonitis in both elbows, the solid front axle of the F250 transfers dips, bumps in the road back to the steering wheel. This excessive movement of the steering wheel increases the inflammation in my elbows so I can't drive as far. The EPS in the F150 is way better."

That is easy to say when you are not the one in pain.

[lbrjet]

I would keep the F250 and be done with it.

[johndeerefarmer]

Groover wrote:
I think that the bigger wheels, low profile tires and a panhard rod would help but by how much is a wild guess. Longer wheelbases help too. I don't recall if you said what wheelbase F150's you have. The only other thing that I can think of is a trailer that doesn't get blown around so much by the wind. Do you know anyone with an Airstream trailer that you could drag around for a trial?

157" WB on the F150. I had a 30' travel trailer previously and I towed it with a '13 F150 max tow. I used the Equalizer WDH and only remember one time having trouble with the wind. Of course the '13 weighed 750 lbs more than the '17 does

[Groover]

I think that the bigger wheels, low profile tires and a panhard rod would help but by how much is a wild guess. Longer wheelbases help too. I don't recall if you said what wheelbase F150's you have. The only other thing that I can think of is a trailer that doesn't get blown around so much by the wind. Do you know anyone with an Airstream trailer that you could drag around for a trial?

[johndeerefarmer]

Groover wrote:

johndeerefarmer wrote:

AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:
As you already know the HDPP has heavier axles, heavier suspension, heavier shocks and LT E tires. Provided you were staying within rear axle rating and you already had LT E tires I would consider Timbrens which will provide additional suspension without impacting the unloaded ride and putting on some Bilstien shocks. That would give you a pretty good idea of how the HDPP would handle before making a large $ decision. I would run a good WD hitch.

Good luck,
Stu

I have Bilstein 4600's on the rear, I haven't replaced the front yet.

I just can't imagine how having a stiffer suspension would help with stability in the wind- which is my problem. Now if I was hitting a bump and it was bouncing excessively or from side to side I would say I needed heavier springs,etc. That's not the problem.

I have bad tendonitis in both elbows, the solid front axle of the F250 transfers dips, bumps in the road back to the steering wheel. This excessive movement of the steering wheel increases the inflammation in my elbows so I can't drive as far. The EPS in the F150 is way better. On the F250 (I have had several) I have tried dual steering stabilizers as well as the Bilstein adjustable ($475 one). They don't help much at all

Both of my campers are fifth wheels

First, I am very impressed with the amount of work that you have already put into this.

It sounds like side to side motion is your major issue. 20" wheels are the quickest and easiest thing to do. The next step would be a panhard rod but all I could find in a quick search is a generic that has to be custom fitted.

Panhard rod

If it is rocking side to side a heavy duty sway bar might help as would air bags on separate channels.
sway bar

I know that many airbags interfere with a gooseneck hitch but I don't know about 5th wheel hitches. I did install a gooseneck hitch on a 2013 F150 with Airride 5000lb XL airbags without issue except that they are way too stiff when the truck is empty. My preffered Airride 2000lb airbags are not compatible with that gooseneck hitch.

On the subject of gooseneck hitches you could convert the trailer from 5th wheel to gooseneck and it wouldn't be able to transmit rocking motion to the truck plus the hitch point is lower which would also help. I have no idea if that would create any stability issues with a tall camper but my daughter loves her gooseneck horse trailer with a small living area.

Hi, thanks for the response.

The F250 already has 20's on it. The F150 has 18's.

Rocking motion by my trailers isn't the problem it's the wind causing the RV and truck to sway. I think the aluminum bodied F150 is too light in relation to the weight of the RV so the wind affects it more. The F250 which weighs probably 3000 lbs more is way more stable in the wind.

So I am stuck between driving the F250 and tearing up my arms but having a stable ride or take the F150 which is better on my arms but get blowed all over the road.

I had airbags on the F150 but took them off because I thought they might be contributing to the issue. I added Super Springs. I see no difference between either.

I looked into a rear sway bar but decided it wouldn't help as my issue is only when the winds are about lets say 15 mph which here in Texas is most of the time

[Groover]

johndeerefarmer wrote:

AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:
As you already know the HDPP has heavier axles, heavier suspension, heavier shocks and LT E tires. Provided you were staying within rear axle rating and you already had LT E tires I would consider Timbrens which will provide additional suspension without impacting the unloaded ride and putting on some Bilstien shocks. That would give you a pretty good idea of how the HDPP would handle before making a large $ decision. I would run a good WD hitch.

Good luck,
Stu

I have Bilstein 4600's on the rear, I haven't replaced the front yet.

I just can't imagine how having a stiffer suspension would help with stability in the wind- which is my problem. Now if I was hitting a bump and it was bouncing excessively or from side to side I would say I needed heavier springs,etc. That's not the problem.

I have bad tendonitis in both elbows, the solid front axle of the F250 transfers dips, bumps in the road back to the steering wheel. This excessive movement of the steering wheel increases the inflammation in my elbows so I can't drive as far. The EPS in the F150 is way better. On the F250 (I have had several) I have tried dual steering stabilizers as well as the Bilstein adjustable ($475 one). They don't help much at all

Both of my campers are fifth wheels

First, I am very impressed with the amount of work that you have already put into this.

It sounds like side to side motion is your major issue. 20" wheels are the quickest and easiest thing to do. The next step would be a panhard rod but all I could find in a quick search is a generic that has to be custom fitted.

Panhard rod

If it is rocking side to side a heavy duty sway bar might help as would air bags on separate channels.
sway bar

I know that many airbags interfere with a gooseneck hitch but I don't know about 5th wheel hitches. I did install a gooseneck hitch on a 2013 F150 with Airride 5000lb XL airbags without issue except that they are way too stiff when the truck is empty. My preffered Airride 2000lb airbags are not compatible with that gooseneck hitch.

On the subject of gooseneck hitches you could convert the trailer from 5th wheel to gooseneck and it wouldn't be able to transmit rocking motion to the truck plus the hitch point is lower which would also help. I have no idea if that would create any stability issues with a tall camper but my daughter loves her gooseneck horse trailer with a small living area.

[johndeerefarmer]

AlmostAnOldGuy wrote:
As you already know the HDPP has heavier axles, heavier suspension, heavier shocks and LT E tires. Provided you were staying within rear axle rating and you already had LT E tires I would consider Timbrens which will provide additional suspension without impacting the unloaded ride and putting on some Bilstien shocks. That would give you a pretty good idea of how the HDPP would handle before making a large $ decision. I would run a good WD hitch.

Good luck,
Stu

I have Bilstein 4600's on the rear, I haven't replaced the front yet.

I just can't imagine how having a stiffer suspension would help with stability in the wind- which is my problem. Now if I was hitting a bump and it was bouncing excessively or from side to side I would say I needed heavier springs,etc. That's not the problem.

I have bad tendonitis in both elbows, the solid front axle of the F250 transfers dips, bumps in the road back to the steering wheel. This excessive movement of the steering wheel increases the inflammation in my elbows so I can't drive as far. The EPS in the F150 is way better. On the F250 (I have had several) I have tried dual steering stabilizers as well as the Bilstein adjustable ($475 one). They don't help much at all

Both of my campers are fifth wheels

[Groover]

JIMNLIN wrote:
Ford gives the F150 three different frames thickness and modulus numbers.

.087 thickness.....4.95 LD modulus
.100 thickness.....5.73 HD modulus
.110 thickness.....6.28 HPP modulus.

Depending on which frame one can't say just slap some heavier spring on the truck and it becomes a HDPP.

Also Fleet Ford specs show the F150 has a ...
8.80 rear axle
9.75 rear axle
9.75HD rear axle.
They don't give differences in a 9.75 and 9.75HD

The OP seems to be concerned with towing stability rather than carrying capacity. The heavier frame of the HDPP seems to be aimed at carrying capacity so for his purposes beefing up a standard truck may be the better solution. Especially since Ford rates the HDPP version to tow less than the standard with Max Towing. Personally, I suspect that the lower tow ratings are due to not having a strong enough connection between the tire and the axle. That sure seems like it would be an easy thing for Ford to correct. Worst case, just put an F250 rear axle under the F150. It's been done before, some friends used to have Chevy 1500's with 8 bolt rims. These days though it might mess up fuel economy ratings.

[JIMNLIN]

Ford gives the F150 three different frames thickness and modulus numbers.

.087 thickness.....4.95 LD modulus
.100 thickness.....5.73 HD modulus
.110 thickness.....6.28 HPP modulus.

Depending on which frame one can't say just slap some heavier spring on the truck and it becomes a HDPP.

Also Fleet Ford specs show the F150 has a ...
8.80 rear axle
9.75 rear axle
9.75HD rear axle.
They don't give differences in a 9.75 and 9.75HD

[Grit_dog]

^ No, not heavier axle. And like you're suggesting, Tires and shocks are replaceable wear items and more springs are cheap.
Not much difference when you look at it with eyes open.

[AlmostAnOldGuy]

As you already know the HDPP has heavier axles, heavier suspension, heavier shocks and LT E tires. Provided you were staying within rear axle rating and you already had LT E tires I would consider Timbrens which will provide additional suspension without impacting the unloaded ride and putting on some Bilstien shocks. That would give you a pretty good idea of how the HDPP would handle before making a large $ decision. I would run a good WD hitch.

Good luck,
Stu