Will a 3/4 ton do

[rarin_2go]

I have an rv that is at the 14000 GVWR. I need a new tow vehicle and was wondering if a 2500 or 3/4 ton truck would safely tow this. I would appreciate your knowledgeable input on this. Would this being a 5th wheel make a difference?

Thanks

[Grit_dog]

S Davis wrote:
Well you don’t have to be real bright to know when you are over tire capacities, but I guess that doesn’t mean much to some.

You’d be surprised how ill informed or ignorant (both in the true sense and the common connotation) some people are….
I’ve quit being personally surprised long ago though…..

[S_Davis]

Well you don’t have to be real bright to know when you are over tire capacities, but I guess that doesn’t mean much to some.

[Grit_dog]

valhalla360 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
Show me a truck that IS rated to tow 4 times its own weight.

Any DRW 3500 that's rated to tow 30k+ is pushing 10k empty these days. I'm talking about the bare truck fresh off the dealer lot. Puts you down in the mid 3's.

Now I'm going to blow your point clean out of the water: The only thing limiting a Class 8 truck is THE LAW. 80K is a legal limit. The truck is capable of far more. You can get overweight permits and tow at 102K gross easy. That gets you solidly into the "3's" with your Class 8 truck strawman. Far more is possible, all you need to do is pull the permit and have enough axles on the ground.

The Class 8 truck will do 4-5 times its own weight all day every day with a smile. A DRW 3500 at 4 times is going to start showing fatigue and wear quite early in its life.

I saw a commercial of a toyota pulling the space shuttle so, clearly there is one truck that can tow 4 times it's weight. 😉

Actually in practice, I approved a permit for an overweight load of 500k lb (It was a press being shipped in for GM). Trailer was quite the monstrosity to keep the axle loads down but the semi-tractor was pretty much stock and I doubt the tractor was over 100k lb.

And the stuff I've seen in other countries...In India, the typical single unit truck had spring packs a foot thick on the rear axle...and they were still probably overloaded.

And none of this is very relevant to your average RVer.

This is actually one of the most relevant things posted on this topic. What you just effectively communicated is that average, too much time on their hands, sticker readin, non understandin, overtly literal and arguably overly cautious typical rvnet weight cop might may just be a teensy weensy bit overzealous in their assertions!

[ShinerBock]

mkirsch wrote:


Show me a truck that IS rated to tow 4 times its own weight.

Any DRW 3500 that's rated to tow 30k+ is pushing 10k empty these days. I'm talking about the bare truck fresh off the dealer lot. Puts you down in the mid 3's.

Now I'm going to blow your point clean out of the water: The only thing limiting a Class 8 truck is THE LAW. 80K is a legal limit. The truck is capable of far more. You can get overweight permits and tow at 102K gross easy. That gets you solidly into the "3's" with your Class 8 truck strawman. Far more is possible, all you need to do is pull the permit and have enough axles on the ground.

The Class 8 truck will do 4-5 times its own weight all day every day with a smile. A DRW 3500 at 4 times is going to start showing fatigue and wear quite early in its life.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/ramtrucks/en_us/towing/Ram_HD-3500-D2_Trailer-To...

Page 7 of 9.

Ram 3500 DRW Regular Cab 4x2 with 8' bed

Base weight(according to Ram's Chart): 7,433 lbs
Max Trailer: 37,100 lbs

37,100/7,433= 4.99

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/dam/aem_fleet/en_us/fleet/towing-guides/2022_Ford_RVandTrailerTow...

page 30 of 53

Ford F450 DRW Regular Cab 4x2 with 8' bed
Base weight(according to Ford's website): 8,012 lbs
Max Trailer: 37,000 lbs

37,000/8,012= 4.62

https://es.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english/index/vehicle-groups/trailering-and-tow...

Page 37 of 46

Chevy 3500 DRW Regular Cab 4x2 with 8' bed
Base weight(according to GM's website): 7,469 lbs
Max Trailer: 36,000 lbs

36,000/7,469= 4.82

Also, I know class 8 trucks because I have worked in the heavy duty industry for over 20 years and my point being is that it is not always hard parts that limit a trucks actual capacities. Like class 8 is limited by laws and regulations, so is class 2b that most 2500 trucks are in that the OP was asking about. And also just like class 8 trucks, you can register a 3/4 ton to be able to carry more than the class 2b limit of 10k GVWR, but I would have to pay double the registration. Manufactures will continue to make class 2b HD trucks because fleets demand them so they don't have to pay added taxes/registration along with limited CDL requirements once you get past 10k GVWR(Class 3 and up).

So it is not the actual hard parts that is limiting 2500's these days. It is laws and regulations of class 2b trucks just like the laws and regulations that limit class 8 trucks.

And no, you will need a special truck to tow 4-5 times the weight. These are called heavy haul spec'ed trucks and they are heavier than your regular on highway tractor with a GCW of 80k due to the added pusher axles and other beefier components. We made a lot of these heavy haul trucks when I worked for Peterbilt/Kenworth, and also made engine for them when I worked at Cummins. Now we sell them at my current company.

[valhalla360]

mkirsch wrote:
Show me a truck that IS rated to tow 4 times its own weight.

Any DRW 3500 that's rated to tow 30k+ is pushing 10k empty these days. I'm talking about the bare truck fresh off the dealer lot. Puts you down in the mid 3's.

Now I'm going to blow your point clean out of the water: The only thing limiting a Class 8 truck is THE LAW. 80K is a legal limit. The truck is capable of far more. You can get overweight permits and tow at 102K gross easy. That gets you solidly into the "3's" with your Class 8 truck strawman. Far more is possible, all you need to do is pull the permit and have enough axles on the ground.

The Class 8 truck will do 4-5 times its own weight all day every day with a smile. A DRW 3500 at 4 times is going to start showing fatigue and wear quite early in its life.

I saw a commercial of a toyota pulling the space shuttle so, clearly there is one truck that can tow 4 times it's weight. 😉

Actually in practice, I approved a permit for an overweight load of 500k lb (It was a press being shipped in for GM). Trailer was quite the monstrosity to keep the axle loads down but the semi-tractor was pretty much stock and I doubt the tractor was over 100k lb.

And the stuff I've seen in other countries...In India, the typical single unit truck had spring packs a foot thick on the rear axle...and they were still probably overloaded.

And none of this is very relevant to your average RVer.

[Grit_dog]

^Agreed. 80k gross is the min and it goes up from there with tag axles, spread axles on trailers, etc.

[blt2ski]

Grit dog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
Only in the RVnet forum would we boast about our favorite brand’s 3500 DRW being rated to tow more than 4 times its weight yet freak out when someone asks about an 8k lb HD 2500 truck towing 1.75 times its weight.

DUDE, don't you know the HIPS make all the difference???????

No other class of truck is rated to tow more than 4 times it's weight even those with double "hips" like the 25k lb class 8 semi that is maxed out towing 55k lbs (GCW 80k). That is only 2.2 times it's weight. Those must be some super special "hips" to allow it to tow more than 4 times it's weight yet a 2500 not able to tow less than 2 times it's weight or a class 8 truck only able to tow less than 2.5 times it's weight.

Shiner, you 2 are on the same team here....

Actually Grit,
Shiners last last comment re class 8 truck limited to 80k lbs is part of FBLs, and typical two tandems at 34k per, plus 12k on front axle. Total 80k. Put a few drop axles, spread trailer axles apart, but an appropriate tag, one can go to 120k lbs. I've seen single axle trucks, towing triples at 120k lbs where legal like Oregon.
Saw a dually 350, maybe a 450 at a boat manufacture the other day, with a 30k tok lift reciever hitch. I see them towing 30-40' aluminum rib boats with 4 outboards on the rear.
Parent company totes 40-50' military versions with older 4500 GM Dmax setups. Talking 300/600 models with the 5 or 6 sp trannies. Most of the time a tandem truck pulls larger ones.
At the end of the day, it still comes down to, do you have payload to handle hitch, people, other cargo for a given trailer.

Marty

[mkirsch]

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
Only in the RVnet forum would we boast about our favorite brand’s 3500 DRW being rated to tow more than 4 times its weight yet freak out when someone asks about an 8k lb HD 2500 truck towing 1.75 times its weight.

DUDE, don't you know the HIPS make all the difference???????

No other class of truck is rated to tow more than 4 times it's weight even those with double "hips" like the 25k lb class 8 semi that is maxed out towing 55k lbs (GCW 80k). That is only 2.2 times it's weight. Those must be some super special "hips" to allow it to tow more than 4 times it's weight yet a 2500 not able to tow less than 2 times it's weight or a class 8 truck only able to tow less than 2.5 times it's weight.

Show me a truck that IS rated to tow 4 times its own weight.

Any DRW 3500 that's rated to tow 30k+ is pushing 10k empty these days. I'm talking about the bare truck fresh off the dealer lot. Puts you down in the mid 3's.

Now I'm going to blow your point clean out of the water: The only thing limiting a Class 8 truck is THE LAW. 80K is a legal limit. The truck is capable of far more. You can get overweight permits and tow at 102K gross easy. That gets you solidly into the "3's" with your Class 8 truck strawman. Far more is possible, all you need to do is pull the permit and have enough axles on the ground.

The Class 8 truck will do 4-5 times its own weight all day every day with a smile. A DRW 3500 at 4 times is going to start showing fatigue and wear quite early in its life.

[Cummins12V98]

I like driving on my limiter. Foot to the floor and it's almost like cruise control. 😉

This was my 11 DRW LongHorn.

[Grit_dog]

S Davis wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

S Davis wrote:
If you like messing with your vehicles go 3/4 ton, I towed a 14,000lb gooseneck with a 2013 2500HD and had to add helper springs, upgraded shocks and upgraded tires. My pin weight was over 3000lbs.

And yet aside from spring rate, the trucks are the same. Hence the helper springs. The other 2 items you’re claiming are just for effect, since 1 ton srw trucks are available with the same wheels and tires as 3/4 tons and shocks, well, 90% of factory shocks are less than stellar and they have no bearing on load carrying capacity.
Nice try though.

I’ll give you the shocks even though they can make the difference between a good towing experience and not. I have an issue overloading tires I guess you don’t? My factory tires were 6400lbs and hooked up the rear axle was about 7000lbs.

And you're not going to get measurably, or any, better OE shocks, apples to apples on a 3500 vs a 2500.
Same with tires (and rims). Doesn't matter that you had 17" rims with 3195lb rated tires. A comparable 1 ton could, would and did get offered with the same tires and wheels. Also a comparable 3/4 and 1 ton can and does get offered with the same 18 or 20" wheels with far greater tire ratings. (Feel a little dejavu like we had this exact same dialouge in the past...)

And no I don't have a problem with overloading tires (in a literal sense). I'll throw 60psi in a 44-50 psi tire to keep it from squatting, handling like poo and getting hot from flexing, if the load of the day calls for it. ( I do not do this as a general matter of course, but it is an effective bandaid that to be fair I don't condone others randomly doing).
I also don't have a problem overloading tires on my HD trucks either. Current 2500 has 3750lb rated tires @ 65psi max cold pressure.

[Grit_dog]

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
Only in the RVnet forum would we boast about our favorite brand’s 3500 DRW being rated to tow more than 4 times its weight yet freak out when someone asks about an 8k lb HD 2500 truck towing 1.75 times its weight.

DUDE, don't you know the HIPS make all the difference???????

No other class of truck is rated to tow more than 4 times it's weight even those with double "hips" like the 25k lb class 8 semi that is maxed out towing 55k lbs (GCW 80k). That is only 2.2 times it's weight. Those must be some super special "hips" to allow it to tow more than 4 times it's weight yet a 2500 not able to tow less than 2 times it's weight or a class 8 truck only able to tow less than 2.5 times it's weight.

Shiner, you 2 are on the same team here....

[Cummins12V98]

MFL wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Jerry Said....."Yes, it is obvious Grit knows more about trucks than you, as do many other members!"

That kinda hurt me a little. 😉

So "knowing" about trucks means "knowing" that the manufacturers' ratings are BS? Well, I guess I'm an idiot.

burb...You will be alright...don't beat yourself up! Lol

For Ron....something for a little hurt.:C

YUM, as I can't stand IPA's. Remember those little metal cans of grapefruit juice that made your mouth taste like vomit???? Well that is what IPA's do for me.

[Grit_dog]

spoon059 wrote:

BurbMan wrote:
You obviously know more about trucks than I do...I do not know for a fact that the axles on a 2500 and 3500 are the same. I only posted the results from my trip to the scale and compared them to the ratings on my truck and the ratings published for a 2500.

I've been contributing to this forum since 2001, 11+ years before you joined, so if anybody is trolling it's you. The OP asked a question about weights and you're trying your best to turn this into an argument.

I believe that ratings are there for a reason, you obviously think they are concocted for political reasons have have no basis in fact. As my Dad used to say, "You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it may be."

The ratings are for warranty and registration purposes only. You can register a Tacoma to 14,000 lbs and load it up and be perfectly LEGAL, though I doubt it would move very far.

There used to be a larger mechanical difference between 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, but the manufacturers long ago realized that it is much cheaper and easier to put essenentially the same rolling chassis under either truck and change the spring pack and the sticker on the door to meet the DOT requirements for a class 2B truck.
The spring pack is easy to overcome, with helper springs, Timbrens or air bags.
The sticker can simply be ignored and your truck registered for whatever weights you are willing to pay.

My Ram has AAM 11.5" axles in the rear. They are rated to 12,000 lbs by AAM, derated to 7,000 lbs for the 3500 and 6,500 lbs for the 2500 with 18" rims, and 6,000 for the 2500 with 17" rims. Same axle.
The brakes, wheel studs, engine, transmission, rear differential, bumpers, bed, body, tires, radiator, etc are exactly the same. The frame is slightly different, just due to the shock mounts from the 2500 coil to the 3500 leaf. Ram rates the coils at 500 lbs lower than the leaf springs. If that 500 lbs worries someone, they can put bags or Timbrens to make up the difference.

The only reason that truck manufacturers make a 3/4 ton these days is to get into the class 2B market, which only allows a vehicle a max GVWR of 10,000 lbs. You can by a Ford F350 with a 10,000 lbs sticker, does that make it any less capable than an identical F350 with an 11,500 sticker?

Lot's of truth here....and fwiw, I'm pretty sure spoon059 is a LEO.

And to his point, yes "some", mostly older models than we are using today do have meaningful differences between a 3/4 and 1 ton.
Example, 86 GMC K20 that we have. It is the 8600gvw "camper special." And if one does some quick math (since there is no magic sticker for payload, or maybe it's just been removed, idk, I don't go looking for those things), it has about 3500lbs available or rated payload based on the curb weight of the truck. Meaning the rear axle will see about 6klbs maybe a shade more fully loaded to gvw with a load centered in the bed over the axle.

That truck does not have a full floating rear axle. And as such, I would classify it differently than the trucks we're talking about in this thread.

[valhalla360]

BenK wrote:

Bottom line for me...if someone asks for this kind of advice...they don't know enough about that situation to make up their own risk management decision(s) and will reference them to their OEM's specifications & manuals for THEIR vehicle & setup

Excellent point.

Someone who has been towing for decades may feel comfortable pushing the truck hard. They may or may not be justified in doing so (just because they didn't die in a burning ball of fire, doesn't mean it was a great idea).

A newbie is likely to come back from a white knuckle ride. It's not uncommon for newbies to give up the hobby because they aren't comfortable towing but you also get a lot of newbies who push the limits because they don't know better and try to get away with a marginal truck. Get a truck fully rated for the load and you are far less likely to have that white knuckle ride.

[ShinerBock]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
Only in the RVnet forum would we boast about our favorite brand’s 3500 DRW being rated to tow more than 4 times its weight yet freak out when someone asks about an 8k lb HD 2500 truck towing 1.75 times its weight.

DUDE, don't you know the HIPS make all the difference???????

No other class of truck is rated to tow more than 4 times it's weight even those with double "hips" like the 25k lb class 8 semi that is maxed out towing 55k lbs (GCW 80k). That is only 2.2 times it's weight. Those must be some super special "hips" to allow it to tow more than 4 times it's weight yet a 2500 not able to tow less than 2 times it's weight or a class 8 truck only able to tow less than 2.5 times it's weight.