Winter weather without winterizing?

[bkenobi]

I've had my 2007 NL 10'2"QRR for around 1.5 years. Last winter the camper was at the dealer for some work and all they had me do was drain the water and run air through the system. Neither I nor they put coolant in the lines. I don't want to winterize it now since I do plan on using it over the next couple months for a few weekends but the weather right now is down into the mid-20's with highs in the 40's. I have an oil heater in the camper and all the cabinets open, but that doesn't circulate any air through the basement where the fresh water tank is located. Is there any way to keep things from getting too cold without running the HVAC? I was thinking that all that's needed is a way to circulate the air so perhaps using some kind of an inline duct booster fan attached to and sealed over the furnace outlet? Or, run an inline booster fan with a hose running down under the sink?

Right now I simply turned on the light in the tank drain compartment which adds around 4W right under the black tank. I don't think this is a sufficient solution if it gets really cold, it's just all I have at the moment.

We only get temps in the 20's for a couple weeks in November or December and then again in February time frame. Outside of that, we only see mid to upper 30's as a low. I really don't want to run the HVAC since it burns a lot of propane and puts hours on the furnace for no real reason though it would keep things from freezing.

[Camper8251]

I lived on west side of Cascades and just ran an electric heater hooked to a thermo cube so when it got cold it would automatically kick on never had a problem.

On mine there is a 12v fan that sucks air into the basement of the camper when the furnace is on. I put a relay in so I could manually control it using my thermostat fan switch and would also turn that on so the warm air from the electric heater would circulate into the basement since I was not running the built in Furnaces.

If you look behind the vents for the basement I would be willing to bet there is 12v fan tucked behind one of them to pull air in.

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27734798.cfm


https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/camper-mods/projects/winter-boondocking-mods/

[kohldad]

brholt has ssome good info. You could always add a small fan some place to move some are into the basement area.

I experience about the same temps here on the east coast and have never winterized my campers. My current non-basement TC sits in a storage yard so using electric heat isn't an option. All I do is go out when the temps will be below freezing, turn the furnace on lowest setting and let it burn the propane. Before I added a 100-watt solar panel, I would get about 3 days before I needed to pull the battery to recharge. For the few nights we see below 20*, I put it on the truck and bring it home so I have electric and the added insulation of the truck bed. Never had a problem with freezing lines. I can get about 40 nights of freezing temps before I even begin to worry about a tank of propane. That works out to less than 50 cents / night which is really nothing compared to the gas for a single weekend trip.

The black tank won't freeze down to about 10* because of the salts and contamenants. The gray tank will handle about the same temps before freezing. And even then, they only freeze to a brown slushy down to about 0*. So no real need to worry about them.

Fresh water tank takes a lot to freeze too. Just think of a bottle of water left in your vehicle. Just the bulk and being out of the wind and it takes a lot more than a single night into the upper 20s or lower before it freezes. Camping there is a case of water on my truck's back seat and usually a bottle or two in the doors. Even when I've woken up to temps in the teens, I've never seen ice in any of them.

[bkenobi]

I don't know either, but if they draw air out of the basement and exhaust into the living space then all of the small gaps in cabinets etc will act as a return. I haven't seen what looks like a return anywhere, so that's my best guess.

[brholt]

bkenobi wrote:
NL said my furnace can't use the fan separate from the burner. In their opinion, I'd have to cut 2x 4" holes in the basement and install new fans.

That would work but not sure how to access the basement to do that. Wouldn't that require removing cabinets or cutting into the floor? That certainly doesn't sould like the cheap/quick solution I was hoping might be possible!

I don't know how NL builds their campers but if they heat the basement there pretty much has to be an inlet and an outlet. I get that the furnace can duct directly to the basement but I would think the air has to come out somewhere. That is where you could put a fan and have the air flow in the reverse direction.

[bkenobi]

NL said my furnace can't use the fan separate from the burner. In their opinion, I'd have to cut 2x 4" holes in the basement and install new fans.

That would work but not sure how to access the basement to do that. Wouldn't that require removing cabinets or cutting into the floor? That certainly doesn't sould like the cheap/quick solution I was hoping might be possible!

[Grit_dog]

Sliding-into-home wrote:
Any reason it would be bad just to leave it plugged in with the battery disconnected and the thermostat set at 45° ?

No, but elect heater would be cheaper and easier since it has power.
Besides, you would only need it during cold snaps in Portland.
Presume since you’re using it every weekend that it’s parked in your driveway and not in storage where access is more time consuming

[bkenobi]

garyemunson wrote:
If you never "use the shower" the water in the trap will dry out and you will get a stench in your RV from the grey tank. Duct tape the drain shut after using a compressor to blow some air through it to get most of the water out.

I was thinking about that earlier. I can't smell so it never bothered me but I'll have to see if my wife's noticed.

[garyemunson]

If you never "use the shower" the water in the trap will dry out and you will get a stench in your RV from the grey tank. Duct tape the drain shut after using a compressor to blow some air through it to get most of the water out.

[DWeikert]

I don't have a basement so my FW tank was basically inside the heat envelope. I just left the cabinet doors open so the heat could get to the plumbing. I didn't worry about the waste tank.

I mostly just wanted to point you to the Thermo-Cube since it's designed to keep a space just above freezing, though they do come with different temperature settings. Most thermostats you'll be lucky to set below 50.

[bkenobi]

Did you do anythi g about tanks or just leave them ready to use?

[DWeikert]

I went a few winters without winterizing. I plugged into shore power, put in an oil filled heater and plugged it into a Thermo-cube. It turns the heat on when the temp gets to 35 then back off again at 45. A much lower setting than the typical thermostat.


https://www.amazon.com/Farm-Innovators-TC-3-Thermostatically-Controlled/dp/B0006U2HD2

[bkenobi]

Thanks, that is exactly what I was hoping to do. My camper is clearly older than yours so the furnace may not be capable to run the fan separately. I'll ask NL directly to see if they know of any options there. Running a second fan (PC fan in your case) seemed like the easiest option. It's good to hear it has worked well in W.WA for you.

[brholt]

Seattle here (98103). We use are camper weekends all winter long. We keep our camper ready to go (also acts as our earthquake prep). I run an oil electric heater with a thermostat, set low, and the heater set to low power (800 watts). This morning during this cold snap it was 26 degrees outside and 41 in the camper. Camper is beside the garage, plugged into a 20 amp circuit and I have a wireless thermometer in the house that gives the temperature inside the camper. If it gets really cold I could crank up the thermostat and/or let the heater run at full power.

To keep the tanks from freezing I have two options. I replaced the analog thermometer with a digital one that has a separate fan control. It allows me to run the fan that Northwood installs in the basement without having to run the furnace. This is my quick and easy option though I usually don't use it.

Second, there is a vent to the basement by the bathroom and another vent on the other side near the bed. I take off the vent cover off on one end and just screw place an AC powered computer fan sucking the air out over the hole. This provides significantly more flow than the fan in option one so I usually just run with that. Takes me 3 minutes to put the fan in place or remove it.

I also have a night light in the camper placed so that I can see it from inside the house. That way I can easily check that AC power is live in the camper.

We have been doing this for almost 6 years and never had a problem. Very nice to just add in fresh food, some additional clothes, take the heater out, disconnect, and go camping. Maybe I'm just getting older but in our experience the more preparation you have to do to go camping the less camping you do.

edit for auto corrects

[bkenobi]

I chose the oil heather specifically because it is the only one that appeared completely safe unattended for extended periods. Ceramic and electric both have hot surfaces that could ignite given contact to the right material or a short. Oil never gets that hot. It also has no fan to fail.

Propane furnace adds hours to HVAC increasing need for maintenance. Also, unattended combustion feels wrong. Bad combustion (CO build up) could result in failure to heat (icing and mold issues). I actually asked a similar question aimed at mold issues last year and the oil heater was the winner.

[Sliding-into-ho]

Feels like a bad idea to me too. Mine only sits 4 days at a time in between trips though. So I'm guessing the furnace runs a total of 1-2 hours over those 4 days. I went in there early this morning when we were at 27° and waited for 30 minutes to see what the temp was doing. The thermometer was at 46 and it didn't drop the whole time I was inside.