X-chock vs. Jack Stabilizers

[Nfrank]

I want to stop the rocking around on my 30ft Cougar and the two products I can find to help eliminate that are X-chocks and jacks stabilizer cross bars. I know both help, but which one helps the most? Has anyone tried both and can give a good comparison? Take a look at these two products I was looking to purchase:

X-chock

Jack Stabilizer

Thanks,
Nathan

[Nvr2loud]

Bob Landry wrote:
I too have struggled with how to remove trailer shake and I do have to agree with Larry on the assessment of the problem. First, I'm going to to challenge someone to explain how X-chocks which do nothing more than allowing lateral movement of the wheels, do anything more than the plastic wheel chocks since the problem is essentially up and down force being applied to the suspension and the trailer frame.
I've installed scissor jacks in front of and behind the axles for a total of eight scissor jacks. That did little to help the trailer shake. I've also used the aluminum screw jacks placed in various locations and adjusted snuggly, although my process wan't as detailed as Larry's. Regardless, with the screw jacks placed on solid pads or concrete and tightened one to two turns more after toughing the frame, that should be enough to at least offer some stabilization to the frame. I can even feel the vibrations when the Yorkies run through the trailer, and this thing is supposed to be built on 8" I-beams. The only thing that I have not tried is to crawl under the trailer and put the screw jacks in the center of the frame, and I simply refuse to do that. All that said, I give up.

Really... you have jacks right in front and right behind the axles and you still have a lot of movement. When I put my scissor jacks in those positions, it virtually eliminated movement inside the trailer. The back still bounced, so I put the stab-jacks down.

Maybe you are not putting enough weight onto your scissor jacks. Once I get my trailer into position and leveled roughly with wood under one set of wheels, I then finish leveling with the scissor jacks on that side (only the scissor jacks at the axles) I basically lift the tires enough that I could almost slide a piece of paper under them. I then go to the other side and lower the scissor jacks and raise that side slightly.

[Bob_Landry]

I too have struggled with how to remove trailer shake and I do have to agree with Larry on the assessment of the problem. First, I'm going to to challenge someone to explain how X-chocks which do nothing more than allowing lateral movement of the wheels, do anything more than the plastic wheel chocks since the problem is essentially up and down force being applied to the suspension and the trailer frame.
I've installed scissor jacks in front of and behind the axles for a total of eight scissor jacks. That did little to help the trailer shake. I've also used the aluminum screw jacks placed in various locations and adjusted snuggly, although my process wan't as detailed as Larry's. Regardless, with the screw jacks placed on solid pads or concrete and tightened one to two turns more after toughing the frame, that should be enough to at least offer some stabilization to the frame. I can even feel the vibrations when the Yorkies run through the trailer, and this thing is supposed to be built on 8" I-beams. The only thing that I have not tried is to crawl under the trailer and put the screw jacks in the center of the frame, and I simply refuse to do that. All that said, I give up.

[Nvr2loud]

LarryJM wrote:

Nfrank wrote:
I want to stop the rocking around on my 30ft Cougar and the two products I can find to help eliminate that are X-chocks and jacks stabilizer cross bars. I know both help, but which one helps the most? Has anyone tried both and can give a good comparison? Take a look at these two products I was looking to purchase:

X-chock

Jack Stabilizer

Thanks,
Nathan

Not just you, but I get a kick out of each of these stability threads and all what at best I call BANDAID fixes to fix a poorly designed and executed system in the first place which is there for the glitz and WOW factor than from a sound engineering execution. Most of these BANDAIDS require you to put more "STUFF" under the trailer exposed to road grim, harsh environmental elements such as water, dirt, etc. and require periodic maintenance (lubrication, painting, etc.) which in an of it's self is counter intutitive ... the less you put in that environment the better off you are and then they try and add exposed electrical stuff there like the power assisted stability jacks:R Of course we also have the not so seldom issue where someone has bottomed out the rear of their TT and bent up those expensive "stabilizer jacks" and now have a whole other issue to deal with.

The trailer movement when parked comes from two main sources, the tire and suspension flex, and the inherent frame flex over the longer spans in bigger trailers. Two secondary sources are axle movement mainly from spring type suspensions and the inherent "SLOP" in the stabilizer jacks because of the multiple joints and moving parts. To solve or address these two MAIN sources one needs to remove or mitigate the former and reduce the latter. Things like chocks etc. at the wheels and these stabilizer bars only address the less important IMO SECONDARY sources and do little to FIX the main sources of movement.

Lets stop and look at why this common problem in TTs/5ers is not an issue with MHs especially Class As. The two distinct differences are these MH type RVs are supported with their suspensions at the corners and have much robust frames designed for less flex over the span of their WBs. Also, they generally employ not the typically sloppy expanding stabilizer jacks like we have in most TTs that are placed far away from the suspension elements, but use bottle type jacks capable of actually supporting and hence also leveling the RV at the same locations as the suspension points. Thus these type RVs don't suffer the "ROCK-N-ROLL" syndrome we have in the TT world.

Back to our TT ... A lot of success is noticed when folks put an extra pair of jacks closer to the axles since now they are attempting to address better the suspension/tire component of trailer movement and the more they can crank up these jacks near the suspension area the better stability they see. However, we have then added two more "THINGS" under the trailer to worry about from a maintenance point exposed to that less than optimum environment when not in use unless you don't attach them to the trailer permanently. What I believe are only marginal improvements can be gained with things trying to stabilize the wheels with chocks/supports or adding supports to the stabilizer jacks and the level of success IMO is more on how much one spends on these bandaids and the placebo effect based more on the amount of $$ spent that have to improve the situation over any actual improvement.

I do have a solution, but it's not that popular and in general is met with a lot of resistance since as a first step it requires one to accept that what they have now is basically a piece of "JUNK" and is better served in the recycle bin than on their trailer for the most part. My solution reduces by 1/2 the "STUFF" hung under the trailer and requires two additions, one of which is a good idea in general anyway and serves extra purposes which is generally the main reason folks have it anyway. A HUGE benefit of what I'm suggesting is the worst you can spend and fail is around $50 and that $50 isn't totally wasted since it can be used for other things. The most expensive thing needed is to upgrade if you haven't already to an electric tongue jack. The second purchase is to buy a decent set of the aluminum "OLD SCHOOL" screw type jack stands like the ones shown below:



One caveat to what I recommend below is that unless you have a really long (30' and over) trailer with a normally occupied area in the rear you may or may not be able to remove the existing rear stabilizer jacks, but testing and experimenting will tell you if that is the case. In our case the bedroom is at the rear and it's just the two of us and while you can definitely get the "ROCK-N-ROLL" from excessive movement back there it's just the two of us and we just don't do our "morning jumping jacks" in the bedroom so the movement that we get from how we use our trailer is acceptable w/o needing any stabilizer jacks at the rear of the trailer.

HERE is my system and you can test this one out for just the price of the 4 screw stabilizer jacks and leave what you have on there until you test out my system and see if what I'm advocating works for you. I'm not going to get into the back and forth about how convenient the existing system is over having to actually bend down and put something under the frame like these new jacks ... never mind all the posts about having to put blocks of wood under the existing jacks to limit their extension, or dropping, attaching or adjusting these add on stabilizer bars that you might consider adding anyway. All things considered, I think my system is in the end simplier, easier and with out a doubt about the best you can do unless you are willing to use 4 like 10T "BOTTLE" hydraulic jacks instead of the screw type jack stands.

The whole "SECRET" here is in the where and how you put and set these 4 jack stands. You might have to do a little experimenting based on the specifics of your trailer and it's living layout and who uses it. The first secret is to get the support much closer to the suspension points and I have found based on our 31'+ TT that about 4 to 6 ft in front and to the rear of each axle is a good target area. The second just as important step is in how you set these jack stands up. This is where that electric tongue jack is a life saver. You need to start with the trailer about 1" down by the tongue and put the rear jack stand in and "SNUG THEM UP" hand tight. Then you raise the tongue of the trailer about 2" "TONGUE HIGH" and put in the front jack stands and again "SNUG THEM UP" hand tight. Then you lower the tongue till all weight is off and then raise it again to just get a good pressure on it. Some will caution about "tweaking" the frame when putting pressure on these jack stands, but IMO that just is not an issue since we are only now talking about most support being across a span of between 8 and 12 ft and to the close to 30' if trying to support the entire span of the trailer on the existing stabilizer jacks. Also, you're not "LIFTING" the wheels off the ground you just need to get a real good upward force on the frame at those points. I actually measured the force when I dialed in my new system with my Sherline tongue scale and had around 400lbs of force on each jackstand. Now if once you find the best new locations for these jackstands you can remove and discard the old front jacks and depending on how well the overall stability is from movement in the rear of the trailer you might be able to also remove those rear stab jacks or if needed deploy them to just take out the "FRAME FLEX" component from that 10' or so span between your new rear jack stands and the actual rear of the trailer. As a consideration you might even store the removed jacks and put them back on when you get rid of the trailer so the next clueless owner won't feel he's not getting what is generally installed on trailers now days.

Worst case is you hate my idea and now have spend $50 on 4 jack stands that you can probably find a use for or sell.

Larry

I agree and disagree with your very informative post...

Some of us don't care that we have exposed to the elements components under our trailer. I live in the snow belt, and all exposed parts are sprayed with oil each fall before storage and again in the spring. Takes only minutes and keeps them in good shape.

I agree that the old-school screw type jack stands work well, but I don't want to carry even more loose stuff around. It will take-up cargo space in my already too small pass-thru, and there is a high probability that my kids will take / loose / allow me to run over at least one of them every season. I prefer the type bolted right to my trailer frame.

The other part I agree with your post is placement.... I have a pair of scissor jacks immediately behind my axle and another pair immediately in front of my axle. This allows very easy fine tuning of side level (after rough leveling with wood) and virtually eliminates trailer rocking. I removed the stab jacks from the front corners and replaced with scissor jacks (that was a fail, waste of money, not needed in the front corners)

I left the stab-jacks out back since I have a long overhang from the axle and the stab-jacks help keep it from bouncing.

The only other thing I did... one of the stab-jacks that I removed from the front, I mounted directly beside the stairs. Now there is zero bounce when a heavy adult climbs in or out of the trailer. Even with my near-axle scissor jacks, there was still bounce when someone used the steps, the stab-jack completely eliminated that.

So when I get a newer trailer.... my plan is to install scissor jacks fore and aft of the axles, and leave stab jacks at the back corners. I don't need anything at the front corners, the tongue jack is steady enough for that job. I often don't use the front scissor jacks on my current trailer anyway.

I had screw jacks (old and plastic framed) on my old trailer, and I hated them, but I was new to trailer camping and wasn't very good at leveling... I tried to do it all with the jacks LOL

[brulaz]

LarryJM wrote:

...
Then you raise the tongue of the trailer about 2" "TONGUE HIGH"
...

Not sure if my electric tongue jack can handle the weight. But if I put the rear jack stands as close to the rear axle as possible, rather than out at the rear end of the trailer, it would be ok.

Really like this idea of using simple jack stands though, especially since my rear electric stab jacks have crumpled.

And just the two jack stands I already have behind the rear axle might be enough, along with the electric tongue jack, giving a solid 3 point support. (The front stab jacks are still good too, but who knows how long they will last).

[Nfrank]

Larry,

Those Camco aluminum jack stands look interesting. Plus, only $32 on amazon! The only problem is is that they are a bit of a hassle to carry around and set up compared to the jack stabilizer systems that cost ~$250.

The only hesitation I have is that the trailer will still be supported essentially by a parallelogram. The jack stabilizers use cross members to break that up and makes a much more rigid 3D space frame underneath the trailer. Those aluminum jack stands could be enough though, might be worth a try since they are so cheap.

[LynnandCarol]

Great posts! 🙂

[myredracer]

Having studied reducing movement in our TT, my thoughts:

TT movement is often called "bounce" but the movement is actually 3 dimensional. Using X-chocks, or equivalent is the first and least cost thing to do to minimize/eliminate the fore-aft movement sensation.

As said, there is the vertical up/down movement caused by tire and suspension movement and frame flex. But the TT can also move laterally side to side and particularly at the rear even if you have X-chocks and use a set of jack stands at each corner. A set of manual or bottle jacks at the axles really helps.

Our first TT was 20' and had scissor jacks. Movement was not too bad when set up. Not the way I would have liked it, but acceptable. Then we moved up to a 29' TT. It has a lot of frame flex and we bought electric stabilizer jacks as an option. I am extremely disappointed with the performance (movement) of the electric jacks considering we spent over $600 on them. If you watch them at the rear of the TT when someone walks up the steps, the jacks move all over the place. I was going to take a video clip but didn't get around to it. Without going to manual screw jacks at the 4 corners, the only way to eliminate the movement is to spend another $300 or so on BAL lock-arms (or equiv. like Ultra-Fab eliminator, Jt's Strongarm, Steadyfast). It chokes me up to think that you end up spending $1K to minimize or eliminate the TT's movement when set up. Why can't Lippert just make the elec. stabilizers stronger to start with?? I considered adding some reinforcement to them but will probably just go with the cross-bracing add-ons.

We have a new TT coming in a couple of weeks. Same TT but one year newer and it has a stronger frame so I am waiting to see what the difference is in movement when set up. I am pretty certain that there will still be some "offensive" movement in a side to side direction. The 2013 one bounces like a trampoline when walking back and forth. Even the dog makes it bounce.

I agree that a set of 4 manual jack stands at each corner will help a lot but I think you can still get some side to side movement and more so at the rear of the trailer because the tongue jack helps to stabilize the front end. The tires will have side to side flex. With the jack stands, you're relying on the triangulated base to reduce or eliminate side to side movement which is only maybe 8" and only goes vertical from the ground by about the same amount.

While a set of 4 jack stands at each corner are a pretty good method to reduce movement, I think from an engineering perspective, the BAL, Ultra-Fab or the OP's ones will be the best way to eliminate movement. What I don't like about them is having to bend over to undo and tighten them up. It looks to me as if the ones on the front would be harder to reach because they're behind the A-frame.

I really like the electric stab. jacks for ease of use, but definitely not for stabilizing. The scissor jacks do a far better job of controlling vertical movement, but not as good as for lateral left/right movement. I think a pair of the cross-braces at the rear may be all you need for about $80 and will be cheaper than buying a set of 6 ($250 and up). Not sure how much improvement the braces will be in the fore/aft direction. If you find you'd still like to reduce movement more, then add a 2nd set at the front.

For those that want to use slideout stabilizers, I would never use them until you have eliminated the "bounce" by adding cross-bracing or jack stands.

[Dick_B]

Couldn't have said it better than did Larry BUT even with the jacks on the four corners on grass or gravel site there will still be movement; on concrete probably none.
The math may not be exact but a 1/8 inch movement between the ground and the jack would result in a greater movement inside the rig.

[downtheroad]

Here is another option. I really like them and have owned a couple of different between the wheel chocking devices.

RotoChok...link

[wmoses]

Larry - good post and right on the mark. I have said the same in other posts but folks don't seem to be able or willing to grasp the concept, and in a way I understand. No one want to be bothered with fiddling with screw jackstands under the trailer (aside from being more to by around) and 'there must be an easier solution'. That includes me. 🙂

One of these days when the movement bothers me enough and I get all other higher priority mods done, I will consider adding some sort of attached stabilizing equipment in way of my axles. My RV presently has 4 Lippert electric stabilizer arms at the 4 corners so maybe another pair amidships is the way to go for both form and function.

[dalenoel]

To stop the movement on my 34' TT I started with the xchocks and it did help. I then used the 'stack jacks' which really helped but I needed extra wood under them so they did not go into the ground and also needed to get under the TT to place them. A real pain.

The solution I now use with great success is the x-chocks and an extra pair of stabilizers placed just in front of the dual tires. This has stopped almost all of the flex in the frame and also the bounce in the suspension.

I think the cost of both will be where you end up but if you want the stack jacks I'll be glad to sell them as they are now just sitting in the garage so I don't haul the weight around.

[LarryJM]

Nfrank wrote:
I want to stop the rocking around on my 30ft Cougar and the two products I can find to help eliminate that are X-chocks and jacks stabilizer cross bars. I know both help, but which one helps the most? Has anyone tried both and can give a good comparison? Take a look at these two products I was looking to purchase:

X-chock

Jack Stabilizer

Thanks,
Nathan

Not just you, but I get a kick out of each of these stability threads and all what at best I call BANDAID fixes to fix a poorly designed and executed system in the first place which is there for the glitz and WOW factor than from a sound engineering execution. Most of these BANDAIDS require you to put more "STUFF" under the trailer exposed to road grim, harsh environmental elements such as water, dirt, etc. and require periodic maintenance (lubrication, painting, etc.) which in an of it's self is counter intutitive ... the less you put in that environment the better off you are and then they try and add exposed electrical stuff there like the power assisted stability jacks:R Of course we also have the not so seldom issue where someone has bottomed out the rear of their TT and bent up those expensive "stabilizer jacks" and now have a whole other issue to deal with.

The trailer movement when parked comes from two main sources, the tire and suspension flex, and the inherent frame flex over the longer spans in bigger trailers. Two secondary sources are axle movement mainly from spring type suspensions and the inherent "SLOP" in the stabilizer jacks because of the multiple joints and moving parts. To solve or address these two MAIN sources one needs to remove or mitigate the former and reduce the latter. Things like chocks etc. at the wheels and these stabilizer bars only address the less important IMO SECONDARY sources and do little to FIX the main sources of movement.

Lets stop and look at why this common problem in TTs/5ers is not an issue with MHs especially Class As. The two distinct differences are these MH type RVs are supported with their suspensions at the corners and have much robust frames designed for less flex over the span of their WBs. Also, they generally employ not the typically sloppy expanding stabilizer jacks like we have in most TTs that are placed far away from the suspension elements, but use bottle type jacks capable of actually supporting and hence also leveling the RV at the same locations as the suspension points. Thus these type RVs don't suffer the "ROCK-N-ROLL" syndrome we have in the TT world.

Back to our TT ... A lot of success is noticed when folks put an extra pair of jacks closer to the axles since now they are attempting to address better the suspension/tire component of trailer movement and the more they can crank up these jacks near the suspension area the better stability they see. However, we have then added two more "THINGS" under the trailer to worry about from a maintenance point exposed to that less than optimum environment when not in use unless you don't attach them to the trailer permanently. What I believe are only marginal improvements can be gained with things trying to stabilize the wheels with chocks/supports or adding supports to the stabilizer jacks and the level of success IMO is more on how much one spends on these bandaids and the placebo effect based more on the amount of $$ spent that have to improve the situation over any actual improvement.

I do have a solution, but it's not that popular and in general is met with a lot of resistance since as a first step it requires one to accept that what they have now is basically a piece of "JUNK" and is better served in the recycle bin than on their trailer for the most part. My solution reduces by 1/2 the "STUFF" hung under the trailer and requires two additions, one of which is a good idea in general anyway and serves extra purposes which is generally the main reason folks have it anyway. A HUGE benefit of what I'm suggesting is the worst you can spend and fail is around $50 and that $50 isn't totally wasted since it can be used for other things. The most expensive thing needed is to upgrade if you haven't already to an electric tongue jack. The second purchase is to buy a decent set of the aluminum "OLD SCHOOL" screw type jack stands like the ones shown below:



One caveat to what I recommend below is that unless you have a really long (30' and over) trailer with a normally occupied area in the rear you may or may not be able to remove the existing rear stabilizer jacks, but testing and experimenting will tell you if that is the case. In our case the bedroom is at the rear and it's just the two of us and while you can definitely get the "ROCK-N-ROLL" from excessive movement back there it's just the two of us and we just don't do our "morning jumping jacks" in the bedroom so the movement that we get from how we use our trailer is acceptable w/o needing any stabilizer jacks at the rear of the trailer.

HERE is my system and you can test this one out for just the price of the 4 screw stabilizer jacks and leave what you have on there until you test out my system and see if what I'm advocating works for you. I'm not going to get into the back and forth about how convenient the existing system is over having to actually bend down and put something under the frame like these new jacks ... never mind all the posts about having to put blocks of wood under the existing jacks to limit their extension, or dropping, attaching or adjusting these add on stabilizer bars that you might consider adding anyway. All things considered, I think my system is in the end simplier, easier and with out a doubt about the best you can do unless you are willing to use 4 like 10T "BOTTLE" hydraulic jacks instead of the screw type jack stands.

The whole "SECRET" here is in the where and how you put and set these 4 jack stands. You might have to do a little experimenting based on the specifics of your trailer and it's living layout and who uses it. The first secret is to get the support much closer to the suspension points and I have found based on our 31'+ TT that about 4 to 6 ft in front and to the rear of each axle is a good target area. The second just as important step is in how you set these jack stands up. This is where that electric tongue jack is a life saver. You need to start with the trailer about 1" down by the tongue and put the rear jack stand in and "SNUG THEM UP" hand tight. Then you raise the tongue of the trailer about 2" "TONGUE HIGH" and put in the front jack stands and again "SNUG THEM UP" hand tight. Then you lower the tongue till all weight is off and then raise it again to just get a good pressure on it. Some will caution about "tweaking" the frame when putting pressure on these jack stands, but IMO that just is not an issue since we are only now talking about most support being across a span of between 8 and 12 ft and to the close to 30' if trying to support the entire span of the trailer on the existing stabilizer jacks. Also, you're not "LIFTING" the wheels off the ground you just need to get a real good upward force on the frame at those points. I actually measured the force when I dialed in my new system with my Sherline tongue scale and had around 400lbs of force on each jackstand. Now if once you find the best new locations for these jackstands you can remove and discard the old front jacks and depending on how well the overall stability is from movement in the rear of the trailer you might be able to also remove those rear stab jacks or if needed deploy them to just take out the "FRAME FLEX" component from that 10' or so span between your new rear jack stands and the actual rear of the trailer. As a consideration you might even store the removed jacks and put them back on when you get rid of the trailer so the next clueless owner won't feel he's not getting what is generally installed on trailers now days.

Worst case is you hate my idea and now have spend $50 on 4 jack stands that you can probably find a use for or sell.

Larry

[sunofabeach]

i can say that the X-chocks have made a big difference in the amount of movement my trailer has when parked. i have not tried the jack stabilizers yet but i think a combination of both would virtually eliminate all movement.

i do plan to install the jack stabilizers in the future, but for now the X-chocks do work great.

[Nfrank]

I haven't seen the Fastway chocks. I'll take a look.

I also already have four scissor jacks on my trailer. Still looking for an improvement though. P

[BobsYourUncle]

Just an hour ago I finished installing a pair of scissor jacks on the front of my TT.

It only came with them on the rear and the trailer rocked quite a bit.

I tested them out by trying to rock the trailer from the inside and it is very stable.

The jacks made a world of difference.