You choose - loaded gas or basic diesel?

[Buck50HD]

If you had to buy a SD/HD truck today, what would you choose... a loaded, leather gas model or a diesel with cloth and just a few basic gadgets? Assume similar price, which is what I am finding.

[blt2ski]

we seem to have gone back to the gas vs diesel issue.......see the top thread. This is a never ending debate that way.......

Marty

[M_GO_BLUE1]

When I am towing something it will always be with a diesel

[Targa]

Winterwolf227 wrote:
Never get 150,000 miles out of a gas engine now a days...

If you can't get that out of a gasser it's usually because of the owner, not the engine.

[Winterwolf227]

No Question about it. Towed with a Gasser for many years, and then upgraded to a Ram Cummins. Never go back.....it nice to have the available power when you need it, the gas milage and it you take care of it, 300,000+ miles of durability. Never get 150,000 miles out of a gas engine now a days...

[45Ricochet]

Buck50HD wrote:


HP dictates how fast you go up the hill, TQ determines what gear you need.

Interesting a 2013 Ram has

850 TQ and 385 HP

The 2013 Ford has

800 TQ and 400 HP

OMG the brake temps are scary, along with the bigger pull numbers from HP vs TQ.
Mind you this is a 450 vs 3500 test.

Oh yeah, clicky

OBTW I think the Ram had 4.10's and the F450 had 4.30's IIRC :E

[Targa]

Basic gas up to 10,000 lbs, basic diesel if over ( I live in Colorado and this altitude is a power robber without a turbo). My last Ram and current Chevy were a loaded Laramie and a loaded LTZ currently, all do to my now ex-wife. Neither truck had/has a single thing that I couldn't live with out.

[Buck50HD]

I can't remember who posted it but the best statement from the last 50 page thread on HP vs TQ was (in my not-so-eloquent terms):

HP dictates how fast you go up the hill, TQ determines what gear you need.

[OhhWell]

otrfun wrote:

OhhWell wrote:

otrfun wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
Horsepower is horsepower. When talking engines ... torque is horsepower as well. An engine cannot produce torque without running. When it is running and producing torque there you have all three; torque, rpm and horsepower. When we talk about an engines torque rating we are referring to the maximum torque the engine makes and it is specified at an rpm ... Torque @ rpm is equal to power. The manufactures give torque rating @ an rpm and further define the powerband of their engine by providing the max HP @ a certain rpm. Together this information forms a power graph in an understanding persons mind and they will have a very good idea of it pulling characteristics, especially if they consider the gear ratios of transmission along with the final drive ratio and tire size all together. Many people have the misconception that diesels produce more torque than gasoline engines. In fact the opposite is true. Torque and therefore horsepower come from the fuel. Gasoline requires less air per unit of energy than does diesel to burn therefore more torque and power can be achieved per liter of engine displacement with the gasoline engine. Diesel lend themselves very nicely to turbocharging, which, in a way, increases the displacement of the engine and therefore allows for much more fuel per rev to be injected. This increased fuel per rev increases the torque of the engine. With the new technology available gasoline engines with direct injection can also be easily supercharged. If you talk turbocharged gasoline vs turbocharged diesel the gasoline engine will make more torque per engine displacement than will the diesel. And if you talk naturally aspirated diesel vs naturally aspirated gasoline engines the gasoline engine produces much more torque again. It is the turbo that is responsible for the high torque output of modern diesels.

Wow, well said. Very informative. My whole point in this thread was to explain the implications of varying the torque and HP curves of any given engine design. How these changes effect realworld driveability. Some folks here seem to ignore these implications or simply don't understand it. Simply saying horsepower is the ultimate panacea for every power issue is not a very convincing argument in my book. Again, 4x4ord, thanks for the excellent post!

If you are going to try to paraphrase my statement, at least get them right. I never said Horsepower is the panacea for every power issue.

I was very careful to say that horsepower is the only rating that is used to calculate how fast you can go. Goodness man, if you can't even understand what I write, what is the point? :S

I fear I have failed to take Mr. Twains advice on who to argue with. Now look at me, I have fallen into the Ad Hominem trap!

We share the same sentiments, Ohhwell. It's called a failure to communicate. It's a beautiful day out there . . . going fishin' 🙂

If that's what you want to call it, so be it. I will agree with you on the quality of the day today.

[larry_kruzan]

I think you first must ask how long are you going to keep the truck and how are you going to use it?

In my opinion, if you aren't going to be traveling very far, say +300 miles 3-5 times a year or you are full timing, diesels don't make much sense. Likewise, if your camping is not the main reason you are buying this truck and you'll trade it every 4+ years, I'd say diesels don't pay.

Don't get me wrong, I love my diesel, but even with hauling 10-15k miles a year, I'm not too certain todays diesels pay.

[otrfun]

OhhWell wrote:

otrfun wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
Horsepower is horsepower. When talking engines ... torque is horsepower as well. An engine cannot produce torque without running. When it is running and producing torque there you have all three; torque, rpm and horsepower. When we talk about an engines torque rating we are referring to the maximum torque the engine makes and it is specified at an rpm ... Torque @ rpm is equal to power. The manufactures give torque rating @ an rpm and further define the powerband of their engine by providing the max HP @ a certain rpm. Together this information forms a power graph in an understanding persons mind and they will have a very good idea of it pulling characteristics, especially if they consider the gear ratios of transmission along with the final drive ratio and tire size all together. Many people have the misconception that diesels produce more torque than gasoline engines. In fact the opposite is true. Torque and therefore horsepower come from the fuel. Gasoline requires less air per unit of energy than does diesel to burn therefore more torque and power can be achieved per liter of engine displacement with the gasoline engine. Diesel lend themselves very nicely to turbocharging, which, in a way, increases the displacement of the engine and therefore allows for much more fuel per rev to be injected. This increased fuel per rev increases the torque of the engine. With the new technology available gasoline engines with direct injection can also be easily supercharged. If you talk turbocharged gasoline vs turbocharged diesel the gasoline engine will make more torque per engine displacement than will the diesel. And if you talk naturally aspirated diesel vs naturally aspirated gasoline engines the gasoline engine produces much more torque again. It is the turbo that is responsible for the high torque output of modern diesels.

Wow, well said. Very informative. My whole point in this thread was to explain the implications of varying the torque and HP curves of any given engine design. How these changes effect realworld driveability. Some folks here seem to ignore these implications or simply don't understand it. Simply saying horsepower is the ultimate panacea for every power issue is not a very convincing argument in my book. Again, 4x4ord, thanks for the excellent post!

If you are going to try to paraphrase my statement, at least get them right. I never said Horsepower is the panacea for every power issue.

I was very careful to say that horsepower is the only rating that is used to calculate how fast you can go. Goodness man, if you can't even understand what I write, what is the point? :S

I fear I have failed to take Mr. Twains advice on who to argue with. Now look at me, I have fallen into the Ad Hominem trap!

We share the same sentiments, Ohhwell. It's called a failure to communicate. It's a beautiful day out there . . . going fishin' 🙂

[OhhWell]

otrfun wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
Horsepower is horsepower. When talking engines ... torque is horsepower as well. An engine cannot produce torque without running. When it is running and producing torque there you have all three; torque, rpm and horsepower. When we talk about an engines torque rating we are referring to the maximum torque the engine makes and it is specified at an rpm ... Torque @ rpm is equal to power. The manufactures give torque rating @ an rpm and further define the powerband of their engine by providing the max HP @ a certain rpm. Together this information forms a power graph in an understanding persons mind and they will have a very good idea of it pulling characteristics, especially if they consider the gear ratios of transmission along with the final drive ratio and tire size all together. Many people have the misconception that diesels produce more torque than gasoline engines. In fact the opposite is true. Torque and therefore horsepower come from the fuel. Gasoline requires less air per unit of energy than does diesel to burn therefore more torque and power can be achieved per liter of engine displacement with the gasoline engine. Diesel lend themselves very nicely to turbocharging, which, in a way, increases the displacement of the engine and therefore allows for much more fuel per rev to be injected. This increased fuel per rev increases the torque of the engine. With the new technology available gasoline engines with direct injection can also be easily supercharged. If you talk turbocharged gasoline vs turbocharged diesel the gasoline engine will make more torque per engine displacement than will the diesel. And if you talk naturally aspirated diesel vs naturally aspirated gasoline engines the gasoline engine produces much more torque again. It is the turbo that is responsible for the high torque output of modern diesels.

Wow, well said. Very informative. My whole point in this thread was to explain the implications of varying the torque and HP curves of any given engine design. How these changes effect realworld driveability. Some folks here seem to ignore these implications or simply don't understand it. Simply saying horsepower is the ultimate panacea for every power issue is not a very convincing argument in my book. Again, 4x4ord, thanks for the excellent post!

If you are going to try to paraphrase my statement, at least get them right. I never said Horsepower is the panacea for every power issue.

I was very careful to say that horsepower is the only rating that is used to calculate how fast you can go. Goodness man, if you can't even understand what I write, what is the point? :S

I fear I have failed to take Mr. Twains advice on who to argue with. Now look at me, I have fallen into the Ad Hominem trap!

[otrfun]

4x4ord wrote:
Horsepower is horsepower. When talking engines ... torque is horsepower as well. An engine cannot produce torque without running. When it is running and producing torque there you have all three; torque, rpm and horsepower. When we talk about an engines torque rating we are referring to the maximum torque the engine makes and it is specified at an rpm ... Torque @ rpm is equal to power. The manufactures give torque rating @ an rpm and further define the powerband of their engine by providing the max HP @ a certain rpm. Together this information forms a power graph in an understanding persons mind and they will have a very good idea of it pulling characteristics, especially if they consider the gear ratios of transmission along with the final drive ratio and tire size all together. Many people have the misconception that diesels produce more torque than gasoline engines. In fact the opposite is true. Torque and therefore horsepower come from the fuel. Gasoline requires less air per unit of energy than does diesel to burn therefore more torque and power can be achieved per liter of engine displacement with the gasoline engine. Diesel lend themselves very nicely to turbocharging, which, in a way, increases the displacement of the engine and therefore allows for much more fuel per rev to be injected. This increased fuel per rev increases the torque of the engine. With the new technology available gasoline engines with direct injection can also be easily supercharged. If you talk turbocharged gasoline vs turbocharged diesel the gasoline engine will make more torque per engine displacement than will the diesel. And if you talk naturally aspirated diesel vs naturally aspirated gasoline engines the gasoline engine produces much more torque again. It is the turbo that is responsible for the high torque output of modern diesels.

Wow, well said. Very informative. My whole point in this thread was to explain the implications of varying the torque and HP curves of any given engine design. How these changes effect realworld driveability. Some folks here seem to ignore these implications or simply don't understand it. Simply saying horsepower is the ultimate panacea for every power issue is not a very convincing argument in my book. Again, 4x4ord, thanks for the excellent post!

[OhhWell]

4x4ord wrote:
Horsepower is horsepower. When talking engines ... torque is horsepower as well. An engine cannot produce torque without running. When it is running and producing torque there you have all three; torque, rpm and horsepower. When we talk about an engines torque rating we are referring to the maximum torque the engine makes and it is specified at an rpm ... Torque @ rpm is equal to power. The manufactures give torque rating @ an rpm and further define the powerband of their engine by providing the max HP @ a certain rpm. Together this information forms a power graph in an understanding persons mind and they will have a very good idea of it pulling characteristics, especially if they consider the gear ratios of transmission along with the final drive ratio and tire size all together. Many people have the misconception that diesels produce more torque than gasoline engines. In fact the opposite is true. Torque and therefore horsepower come from the fuel. Gasoline requires less air per unit of energy than does diesel to burn therefore more torque and power can be achieved per liter of engine displacement with the gasoline engine. Diesel lend themselves very nicely to turbocharging, which, in a way, increases the displacement of the engine and therefore allows for much more fuel per rev to be injected. This increased fuel per rev increases the torque of the engine. With the new technology available gasoline engines with direct injection can also be easily supercharged. If you talk turbocharged gasoline vs turbocharged diesel the gasoline engine will make more torque per engine displacement than will the diesel.

It doesn't matter, some will not listen. You are absolutely right about all of that. I never once said that it was as simple as picking the engine with the most horsepower and thinking that will fit your needs. The horsepower rating however is THE rating of how much work the engine can produce over time and the only of the two ratings to look at when trying to figure out top speed.

I just get a little too wound up when people start spouting off complete nonsense I guess ( I wasn't referring to you 4x4).

[4x4ord]

Horsepower is horsepower. When talking engines ... torque is horsepower as well. An engine cannot produce torque without running. When it is running and producing torque there you have all three; torque, rpm and horsepower. When we talk about an engines torque rating we are referring to the maximum torque the engine makes and it is specified at an rpm ... Torque @ rpm is equal to power. The manufactures give torque rating @ an rpm and further define the powerband of their engine by providing the max HP @ a certain rpm. Together this information forms a power graph in an understanding persons mind and they will have a very good idea of it pulling characteristics, especially if they consider the gear ratios of transmission along with the final drive ratio and tire size all together. Many people have the misconception that diesels produce more torque than gasoline engines. In fact the opposite is true. Torque and therefore horsepower come from the fuel. Gasoline requires less air per unit of energy than does diesel to burn therefore more torque and power can be achieved per liter of engine displacement with the gasoline engine. Diesel lend themselves very nicely to turbocharging, which, in a way, increases the displacement of the engine and therefore allows for much more fuel per rev to be injected. This increased fuel per rev increases the torque of the engine. With the new technology available gasoline engines with direct injection can also be easily supercharged. If you talk turbocharged gasoline vs turbocharged diesel the gasoline engine will make more torque per engine displacement than will the diesel. And if you talk naturally aspirated diesel vs naturally aspirated gasoline engines the gasoline engine produces much more torque again. It is the turbo that is responsible for the high torque output of modern diesels.