National Parks and the Lack of Adequate # of Camp Sites

[Busskipper]

National Parks and the Lack of Adequate # of Camp Sites.

Sort of says it all - Now I have "No Dog in this fight" or "Horse in this Race"

BUT I sure would like to be able to get into YNP on a whim with my Granddaughters! And because they are Girls they require more WATER and ELECTRICITY, so it sure would be nice if the parks would make this Possible.

I personally have no issue - having Been there and Done that - and can do it again (With the present system) - but for the life of me I have a hard time understanding how a NP Service can let an area larger than the State of Rhode Island Burn, but has no ability to create a few more acres of CG's?

So I've opened the door to a very SENSITIVE ISSUE - let's stay civil and see if we can have a discussion that proposes Solutions to this issue. Private or Public - In the Park or out of the Park - Solutions not Sermons.

Let the Games Begin.

[Turn_Key]

Two big issues with adding more and better camping at all NP's:
1) Cost and getting it passed through congress.
2) No need, as far as they are concerned, being as the parks are always full. You only spend to improve to draw customers.

As for us, we are headed for YNP and the Tetons (among other stops) this summer. Trailer is staying home and we are staying in motels and other facilities. As much as we enjoy our trailer, this is our first and probably our only trip to this area and want to spend it seeing the sights with as little drive and setup time as we can get away with. It will cost more (surprisingly not as much more as I thought) but we believe it will work best for us.

Wishing you a great trip and,

Happy Camping!

[PennStateTPD]

NCWriter wrote:

This year I tried online to get a site in Yosemite for midweek in May but they all sold out immediately and there aren't many close to the park entrance. So we will stay at the KOA in the town of Mariposa about 45 minutes away. While reading a guidebook, I discovered that there is a low cost shuttle called YARTS (Yosemite Area Regional Transportation system) that picks up right at the KOA and takes you into numerous points in the Yosemite Valley. Senior price runs about $9 roundtrip per person.

We do the same thing a for Sequoia NP. We stay at the KOA in Visalia and take the shuttle from Visalia to the park and back. Cost is $15.00 round trip and includes park entrance fee. Once in the park there are free shuttles to all the major sites within the park.

I believe this is a good solution to reduce the strain on the park system.

[monkey44]

Yes, definitely dry camping, and don't build out FHU RV sites. Imagine the cost for a campsite if we pay for all that upgrading. It's not practical. Even adding the electric in a few NP's lately has nearly doubled the campsite cost (Tetons, for example, and Everglades) where a few pedestals have been installed and run by vendors ... It went from $18 to $27, and the ATB and Access discounts only apply to the site, not the electric.

We're protecting these resources, not building out the land until it's gone. Once we do that, we lose the reason to have it in the first place - and the wildlife and ecosystems suffer tremendously --- AND disappear.

[SBradley]

I don't want to see them change the way the camping is set up, dry camping only.
I would like to see maybe a small increase in small campgrounds 25 site maximum in more remote areas. I would look for areas that are near other facilities that already exist, or hidden sites that are out of sight.

[Pogoil]

National Parks should be kept as a dry camp situation. They should not compete with private parks in the area. If a person needs hookups then camp outside at private parks. When we go to a National park we cook outside our motorhome. We read by battery powered led lights and use a big buddy heater to conserve batteries. We always take 100 gallons of water and can easily go a week to ten days.

Pogoil.

[NCWriter]

bucketlist60 wrote:


2) If tour buses/shuttles were made available to pick up campers from camp sites in/out of NP without advance reservations it would decrease the traffic on the roads through park and maybe less accidents/congestion, and more folks camp outside park. Obviously since never been to NP I cannot say, but I can say what is holding me back from seeing them is fear getting trampled in crowds (or caught in snow in off peak times), fear once I get there discovering once inside needed another type reservation a year advance to see sites, fear noplace to park if no reservations months/year advance (not knowing how to make a reservation nor how long it would take between stops to get there to attempt reservations). I was guided to caravan link which was awesome advice and will likely do to start with.

People would be willing to camp outside of park if they knew didn't have to start all over each day to get to same mile marker as day before due to traffic. I believe shuttles with shuttle destinations would help with that.

Welcome to the forum. Appreciate these good points that you made. Some people (I'm one of them) enjoy planning way in advance and reserving ahead, but I completely understand that not everybody can or wants to do that for many reasons.

The shuttles do help, and some of the bigger National Parks with heavy demand have what you described, either free or low-cost during the peak summer season. We don't tow a vehicle, but either way if you are on the shuttle instead of driving, you don't have to fight traffic or find a scarce parking place.

There's a free shuttle that picks up at some campgrounds outside Acadia National Park and the town of Bar Harbor, and also shuttles inside the park.

In Zion and Bryce Canyon, free shuttles also pick up from some campgrounds just outside the park, if I remember correctly. And again, inside the park, there are free shuttles.

This year I tried online to get a site in Yosemite for midweek in May but they all sold out immediately and there aren't many close to the park entrance. So we will stay at the KOA in the town of Mariposa about 45 minutes away. While reading a guidebook, I discovered that there is a low cost shuttle called YARTS (Yosemite Area Regional Transportation system) that picks up right at the KOA and takes you into numerous points in the Yosemite Valley. Senior price runs about $9 roundtrip per person.

I hope you won't be discouraged about visiting the parks, and that you feel free to ask questions on this forum whenever there's a National Park you are considering. You can get great input from people from their past trips on things like campgrounds with no-reservation sites (like some in Yellowstone), weather possibilities in months when it will be less crowded, and so on. Might put your mind at ease and convince you to go for it.

[bucketlist60]

Do not mean to hijack, Please excuse text, an almost senior relearning to reread/write. When healthy I backpack alone Appalachian albeit hindsight stupid but ignorance was bliss. I worked 38 years to save for NP trips but never dreamed you could not just leave and visit them, that reserve year ahead first. To reduce load on parks:

1) rig dry camp training.

2) If tour buses/shuttles were made available to pick up campers from camp sites in/out of NP without advance reservations it would decrease the traffic on the roads through park and maybe less accidents/congestion, and more folks camp outside park. Obviously since never been to NP I cannot say, but I can say what is holding me back from seeing them is fear getting trampled in crowds (or caught in snow in off peak times), fear once I get there discovering once inside needed another type reservation a year advance to see sites, fear noplace to park if no reservations months/year advance (not knowing how to make a reservation nor how long it would take between stops to get there to attempt reservations). I was guided to caravan link which was awesome advice and will likely do to start with.

People would be willing to camp outside of park if they knew didn't have to start all over each day to get to same mile marker as day before due to traffic. I believe shuttles with shuttle destinations would help with that.

3) Make unused reservations available to people if folks have not called in to keep reservation by noon the next day (or something similar). When I have taken rig to local places through ReserveAmerica, I'm amazed the sea of open slots because folks didn't cancel the reservation and camp is sold out. I believe if you don't notify the camp ground by noon the following day the camp ground should allow drive in's or next on notification list the space and relist it in ReserveAmerica. When I inquire why folks being turned away with a sea of open slots it is because they are already paid for and reserved. So folks reserve multiple weeks with a couple names to cover a year in advance and may not use them but the cost is low enough that they can afford the latitude of going or not (seriously, folks book every weekend and nearly impossible to get 10-14 days because weekends booked but never used because affordable to do it). I call ahead and even if I'm not going to be refunded I ask them to ensure the slot is given to somebody. I'm impressed folks can plan months and years ahead, some folks can only go when they hit a break to escape without warning (e.g., nursing home gets an opening, etc.). Sounds like a personal problem, with personal hang ups, I agree.

4) incentive for people to cancel reservations, at present zero refund if you cancel on/near date, so why bother. But if you could get even 50% refund in instances the spot subsequently gets rented then more folks would call in and more folks could see park instead of spot remaining vacant.

5) Make cancelled spots available. I reserved two spots once but other couple could not make it, that other spot remained open the entire week and showed taken on reserve site even though called and cancelled it.

dry camp training, shuttles, unused reservations made available next day if nobody calls in for late arrival and gets confirmation number for late arrival, majority slots reservable in entire week increments not just weekends.

[DrewE]

beemerphile1 wrote:
Stop accepting reservations or at most make half of the sites unreservable.

One problem travelers have is that you may arrive during the week but get kicked out on the weekend because a site is reserved.

Non-reservable sites are problematic especially for people who travel from far distances, or who can't arrive early in the day to secure a site (e.g. people who work the day shift). I would be very reluctant to drive my motorhome from Vermont to Yellowstone on the hopes that I could snag a suitable non-reservable site in a very popular park for several days. Planning around a reservation is much, much more practical for me.

It seems the main complaint is that popular destinations are popular. Yes, that's annoying when you want to go there, but I don't see much of any way around the basic problem other than trying to make it as fair as practical for everybody to get an equal chance to go. If it were a less popular place, it wouldn't matter so much if all the sites were reservable as there would still be ones open to be "reserved" on the spot.

[NYCgrrl]

A saying I learned in the hotel business: any night a room goes unsold can never be gotten back. Same holds true for campground sites whether private or government owned.

I find the current reservation system fairer than how things used to go on the county, municipal,state, and national level. An anonymous site takes your reservation when the window opens up. The end. No more my cousin's BIL works at this park nonsense.

[beemerphile1]

Stop accepting reservations or at most make half of the sites unreservable.

One problem travelers have is that you may arrive during the week but get kicked out on the weekend because a site is reserved.

[Veebyes]

NCwriter & Busskipper, Yeah, got the Bay Bridge on the brain. Been over that thing too many times.

[monkey44]

We've been to nearly every NP in the west, and probably half in the east. We've never had a problem getting a site. We often get one or two nights, and move, but we always find some spot for the night.

We haul a Truck Camper and are 22 feet, so that helps. Sometimes, we end up in a national forest for a few nights near a major NP, but we always get in and stay as long as we want (based on days allowed).

That might not suit a large RV, a larger family, or foreign visitors. But our first priority should always be "protect our wilderness, our watershed, and our wildlife." If we fail in that responsibility, additional campgrounds will be the least of our problems.

[fulltimedaniel]

Busskipper wrote:
National Parks and the Lack of Adequate # of Camp Sites.

Sort of says it all - Now I have "No Dog in this fight" or "Horse in this Race"

BUT I sure would like to be able to get into YNP on a whim with my Granddaughters! And because they are Girls they require more WATER and ELECTRICITY, so it sure would be nice if the parks would make this Possible.

I personally have no issue - having Been there and Done that - and can do it again (With the present system) - but for the life of me I have a hard time understanding how a NP Service can let an area larger than the State of Rhode Island Burn, but has no ability to create a few more acres of CG's?

So I've opened the door to a very SENSITIVE ISSUE - let's stay civil and see if we can have a discussion that proposes Solutions to this issue. Private or Public - In the Park or out of the Park - Solutions not Sermons.

Let the Games Begin.

According to the npca.org more than 300 MILLION people visited the national parks in 2015. That is almost the entire population of the US. Many many of these visitors are from overseas including China, Europe, Africa and Asia.

Many of these folks are doing the classic American Road Trip and camping.

Our National Parks are probably the single biggest tourist draw for this country.

Layer on this the fact that the job of the National parks is to protect our national treasures not to tear up landscape for more campgrounds it is obvious that space will be more and more at a premium as time goes on.

I share your frustration at getting reservations, but by careful timing and thinking ahead you can get into alost any Park you want.

[Busskipper]

NCWriter wrote:

Veebyes wrote:
We have been travelling 10 seasons, averaging 150 nights a season, usually not travelling August but every month April to November. We have done all the major NPs like Yosemite, GC, Yellowstone, Glacier, Denali. Most of them multiple times....

We rolled into Bay Bridge CG in Yellowstone NP one afternoon, mid week, mid July, NO reservations. We squeezed our 34' plus truck selves into one of few sites possible that were left. By dark there were still a very few open sites left. Bay Bridge is dry camping, open but not groomed at all, so the bison tend to roam through. A whole lot better IMO than Fishing Bridge CG which is nothing more than carpark camping with utilities & always booked solid.

For clarification in case someone wants to stay there, I believe poster meant to write "Bridge Bay" CG in Yellowstone.

BUT Veebyes lives just over the "Bay Bridge" in Maryland - Muscle Memory - :S.....:S