What does the future hold for 55+ park model communities?

[Thunder_Mountai]

The wife and I were talking the other day about how changing demographics will affect the park model retirement communities. We are currently in the Apache Junction/Mesa area. Have no clue how many thousand park models are in the area, but it is significant. Where we are, most of the park model owners are well into their seventies and eighties. They are early baby boomers and parents of boomers. Numerous units are vacant and for sale as the residents are aging out. We're not seeing younger boomers in park models.

All that said, we see high end mixed RV/park model communities such as The Palms in Yuma and Canyon Vistas in Gold Canyon going like gang busters. To us, they appear to be niche markets for the wealthy. They have a $300,000 to $500,000 motor home sitting beside a $200,000+ casita. Many of the residents do appear to be a bit younger than the AJ/Mesa crowd.

We visited friends in one of the older park model communities where the units are from the 1970s and '80s. Units needing upgrading are available in the $10,000 range and even cheaper. The units are small and crammed in together.

We know that 10,000 boomers are turning 65 every day. What are they doing? We know the market for class C and smaller units is booming. We saw one they other day with four slides! Most of these people seem to want to see the USA moving from place to place rather than buying a park model in Arizona and other snowbirding states.

Appreciate your comments and observations.

[TomG2]

almcc wrote:

I'm talking about a 1200 site park with 100 pre-historic sites virtually unused and empty. Converting a few and charging a bit extra might just make them some additional $$ and attract folks that have larger RVs.

A park in the RGV combined the lots on a couple of streets to create "Widows Row" for those that can afford the extra space. Those sites are full while many other smaller sites in the same park sit empty.

[BarbaraOK]

Expyinflight wrote:


As a long time Arizona resident, I don't see the need for the park model lifestyle ever going away. It may see some cycles with peaks and valleys, as with most things....but it will not disappear.
DutchmenSport has clearly described the future for many that currently travel more seeking the 'experience'. Sometimes, life has a way of forcing changes in our desires, wants, and needs.

Our annual physicals lasting 2-3 days have now evolved into once each 6 months. So we arrive in October to Mesa, spend October and part of November being poked and prodded and then at the end of March we work in our 'pre-trip' visits to make sure we are still firing on at least a few good cylinders before heading out for the summer.

[almcc]

"Did you make a proposal to the park ownership of how much more you would pay for a 90 foot pull thru? My guess is they are going to need substantial rent inreases and commitment of the returning guests before they take the big step of cutting their occupancy capacity in half."

Nope, I didn't.

I'm talking about a 1200 site park with 100 pre-historic sites virtually unused and empty. Converting a few and charging a bit extra might just make them some additional $$ and attract folks that have larger RVs.

[Expyinflight]

DutchmenSport wrote:
When those of us who are in their early 60's finally turn 80, we'll be snatching up those park models then. When the old joints are replaced by titanium (like one of mine is), and the remaining joints are bone-on-bone, all the laser eye surgery is no longer working because our old eyes have changed, yet again and now we can't see to drive any more, and everyone we know is now dead, we'll be looking for places like those park models in warmer steady climates to find a place to die peacefully!

No worries there, give us another 20 years and we'll be there!

As a long time Arizona resident, I don't see the need for the park model lifestyle ever going away. It may see some cycles with peaks and valleys, as with most things....but it will not disappear.
DutchmenSport has clearly described the future for many that currently travel more seeking the 'experience'. Sometimes, life has a way of forcing changes in our desires, wants, and needs.

[John_Joey]

How does that old joke go???

How do you make a million dollars running an RV park, start with ten million.

That's the bad thing about owning a business. Unless you keep reinventing yourself, sooner or later things get stale, or out-of-date.

Just ask Sears/KMart, took a long while, but it caught up to them. Just think you could buy a house from a Sears catalog. Oh, I forgot our younger readers may not know what a catalog is. 😉

[westernrvparkow]

almcc wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

almcc wrote:

joebedford wrote:

BarbaraOK wrote:
Most are 45 deep and 30-40 feet wide

That's one of my biggest complaints about all the parks I've seen in Mesa / Apache Junction - the sites are just too small.

We have a 42' 5er, 3500HD dually and two motorcycles. The sites are just too small. We make it work, but it's a pain.

Agree with Joe. The place in Yuma that we won't stay at again is exactly like that, the nose of the RV is at the curb and you look into your neighbour's back window. They have more than 100 sites like that, most of them are empty. They need to take alternate sites out and make it a 21st century park. The park amenities don't make it a great park for us.

That almost never works logistically. Unless the sites are exactly lined up and there is nothing between the sites you would need to rework the parking pads. Basically two rigs parked on one long site. That is very uncommon at best.
If those sites are also not wide enough, you would need to take out the adjoining site also. In that scenario, you have to take out three sites to make one good site. Now that park that had 100 sites only has 25. Otherwise, they would need to start from scratch and completely reconfigure each site. It would be safe to say that they would, at best, end up with two thirds of the original sites in a complete reconfiguration. Probably would cost a minimum of $4,000 to $5,000 per site to completely reconfigure with new pads, new utility connections, replacing the landscaping etc. Now the park has a $250,000 or more investment to recoup on 67 sites, and that just breaks them even. How many of those current guests would be fine with paying an extra $1000 a year? My guess is not very many since they have made the price to value decision to stay there based on the park as it was. So now you have to somehow market to new customers that a park that has had multiple reviews of how tight it is, and has old prices all over the internet in reviews etc. is now much better and much more expensive, but worth it. That takes advertising dollars, commitment and faith in their new plan, and patience, which are things most park operators have in short supply.

Guess it depends on the individual park. In the one I referred to it would be relatively simple, close off one of the dual side pedestals (and keep the plugs and breakers for spares!), break up the old small concrete slab and re-pour in another location, no need to relocate the sewer, the rest is all gravel so no other work. Hundreds, not thousands of$$ and it becomes a 90 ft. pull through!

Did you make a proposal to the park ownership of how much more you would pay for a 90 foot pull thru? My guess is they are going to need substantial rent inreases and commitment of the returning guests before they take the big step of cutting their occupancy capacity in half.

[BarbaraOK]

Me Again,

Let me guess you were in the Fiesta section of Val Vista between sites 63 and 69? That’s a really old part of the park and those sites were miss laid out. They are getting better in getting more non-slide rigs in those sites.

Agree that Canyons is a nice park, we stayed there our 3rd year out. But it is too far out for us, ok for a short stay, but long drives to everything we want to do. During our winter stay. But a lot of people live that area.

[almcc]

Me Again wrote:
A review of The Palms in Yuma, shows it has large lots, which are angled for easy of backing a MH or 5th wheel onto the site. At under 500 sites it is a nice size. The most current GE view shows it almost completely full. And some people like Yuma!

Chris

Going to try the Palms on our way back east in March. Folks here in California have recommended it. Hope we can get in!

[Me_Again]

A review of The Palms in Yuma, shows it has large lots, which are angled for easy of backing a MH or 5th wheel onto the site. At under 500 sites it is a nice size. The most current GE view shows it almost completely full. And some people like Yuma!

Chris

[Me_Again]

joebedford wrote:

BarbaraOK wrote:
Most are 45 deep and 30-40 feet wide

That's one of my biggest complaints about all the parks I've seen in Mesa / Apache Junction - the sites are just too small.

We have a 42' 5er, 3500HD dually and two motorcycles. The sites are just too small. We make it work, but it's a pain.

As Thundermountain said Canyon Vistas is booming. Why? Newer park verses the older ones in AJ and Mesa with 40Wx50D lots. Nice balance of activities and a very active crowd of residents. And it is out of the city hustle and bustle, with desert on two sides.

We spent our third retirement year (2008/2009 winter) here and continued to return each winter. Last winter after selling our home in Washington we built a park model here on a rare 50x50 lot here which allow use to end up with 875 sq ft of living, two baths, a bonus room which I built a Murphy bed for guest with fold down computer desk the rest of the time, a 9x12 man cave/golf cart garage with storage loft, plus another rear outside 5.5x6' storage room. Car port is 16' wide. Front deck is 12x18 and rear deck is 7x9'.

What needs to be done with some of the old parks in Mesa and AJ to to convert 3 sites into 2. Valle del Oro another one of the Cal-Am parks has done that to some sites. We stayed at Val Vistas for a week three years ago and the smaller 29' 5er was had to get on the lot and then I had to be careful opening the truck door to not hit the MH on the next lot. Our current 39' 5th wheel would not fit!

With the house gone we have two lots in NW Washington at a large membership park that is now our summer home. We are planning on roofing the 5th wheel and leaving it there year round at just drive back and forth. We bought the second lot after selling the home for extra parking, shed and guest.

We are in our mid 70's BTW. As we age the plan is to just stay in AZ year round. More and more residents are doing that at Canyon Vistas/Superstitions Views. For now our domicile is Washington State.

As we all say in this park, if you are bored it is your own fault.

Chris

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

TomG2 wrote:
The OP asked, "What does the future hold for 55+ park model communities?"

To survive and make money, I think many parks will follow the lead of some mid-level parks in South Texas. They are relaxing the age requirements and allowing younger people to share the RV park lifestyle. Some are still employed. Swimming pools, exercise rooms, recreational halls, clean bathrooms, relatively safe streets, and low rent must seem like Heaven to many. Look around the park community and you will find a lot of people who do not have nearly as many amenities.

Therefore, my answer to the question is, "Move over folks, there are others who want to enjoy what we take for granted". With park models aging and becoming cheaper, more people can afford them. Not as a second home, but as full time residences. Look for a school bus coming to your park soon.

In our case (we bought a condo) - the 55+ crowd just didn't feel like the right "fit" for us (ages 65 and 70). I LIKE hearing the giggles of children playing, or meeting the neighbors who are still working. I think they like us Old Pharts because we watch over their places while they work, or play with their kids at the pool; and quite frankly, I like having a helpful and strong young neighbor when I need a heavy piece of furniture moved....LOL!

[almcc]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

almcc wrote:

joebedford wrote:

BarbaraOK wrote:
Most are 45 deep and 30-40 feet wide

That's one of my biggest complaints about all the parks I've seen in Mesa / Apache Junction - the sites are just too small.

We have a 42' 5er, 3500HD dually and two motorcycles. The sites are just too small. We make it work, but it's a pain.

Agree with Joe. The place in Yuma that we won't stay at again is exactly like that, the nose of the RV is at the curb and you look into your neighbour's back window. They have more than 100 sites like that, most of them are empty. They need to take alternate sites out and make it a 21st century park. The park amenities don't make it a great park for us.

That almost never works logistically. Unless the sites are exactly lined up and there is nothing between the sites you would need to rework the parking pads. Basically two rigs parked on one long site. That is very uncommon at best.
If those sites are also not wide enough, you would need to take out the adjoining site also. In that scenario, you have to take out three sites to make one good site. Now that park that had 100 sites only has 25. Otherwise, they would need to start from scratch and completely reconfigure each site. It would be safe to say that they would, at best, end up with two thirds of the original sites in a complete reconfiguration. Probably would cost a minimum of $4,000 to $5,000 per site to completely reconfigure with new pads, new utility connections, replacing the landscaping etc. Now the park has a $250,000 or more investment to recoup on 67 sites, and that just breaks them even. How many of those current guests would be fine with paying an extra $1000 a year? My guess is not very many since they have made the price to value decision to stay there based on the park as it was. So now you have to somehow market to new customers that a park that has had multiple reviews of how tight it is, and has old prices all over the internet in reviews etc. is now much better and much more expensive, but worth it. That takes advertising dollars, commitment and faith in their new plan, and patience, which are things most park operators have in short supply.

Guess it depends on the individual park. In the one I referred to it would be relatively simple, close off one of the dual side pedestals (and keep the plugs and breakers for spares!), break up the old small concrete slab and re-pour in another location, no need to relocate the sewer, the rest is all gravel so no other work. Hundreds, not thousands of$$ and it becomes a 90 ft. pull through!

[bucky]

A growing danger to some of these parks is Sun Communities. They are buying up manufactured home parks at an alarming rate along with resort area campgrounds. The first thing they do is jack the lot rent way up.
No 99 year lease or outright deed, no me.
I still remember when the folks in MB got their beach places sold out from under them. I think it was Barefoot Landing area. Where do you put a park model while you try to find a semi permanent place to put it?

[John_Joey]

The other scenario that is occurring is a swanky RV in an older park in a destination type of area. You pay the $$$ to get a nice rig, and then leave the day/night shades down ALL OF THE TIME while in a cheaper park but with things to do and see around the park. If you enjoy your rig, and the area, this is a very workable solution.

With cable TV and internet this is a viable option for some. I personally like to be outside so it doesn't work very well for me, but I know many who would rather be inside watching TV or playing internet games then outside in the sun. It works for them because the area the park is in supports "experiences" for them. So they can leave their park site with their swanky rig and enjoy the surronding area.

[westernrvparkow]

almcc wrote:

joebedford wrote:

BarbaraOK wrote:
Most are 45 deep and 30-40 feet wide

That's one of my biggest complaints about all the parks I've seen in Mesa / Apache Junction - the sites are just too small.

We have a 42' 5er, 3500HD dually and two motorcycles. The sites are just too small. We make it work, but it's a pain.

Agree with Joe. The place in Yuma that we won't stay at again is exactly like that, the nose of the RV is at the curb and you look into your neighbour's back window. They have more than 100 sites like that, most of them are empty. They need to take alternate sites out and make it a 21st century park. The park amenities don't make it a great park for us.

That almost never works logistically. Unless the sites are exactly lined up and there is nothing between the sites you would need to rework the parking pads. Basically two rigs parked on one long site. That is very uncommon at best.
If those sites are also not wide enough, you would need to take out the adjoining site also. In that scenario, you have to take out three sites to make one good site. Now that park that had 100 sites only has 25. Otherwise, they would need to start from scratch and completely reconfigure each site. It would be safe to say that they would, at best, end up with two thirds of the original sites in a complete reconfiguration. Probably would cost a minimum of $4,000 to $5,000 per site to completely reconfigure with new pads, new utility connections, replacing the landscaping etc. Now the park has a $250,000 or more investment to recoup on 67 sites, and that just breaks them even. How many of those current guests would be fine with paying an extra $1000 a year? My guess is not very many since they have made the price to value decision to stay there based on the park as it was. So now you have to somehow market to new customers that a park that has had multiple reviews of how tight it is, and has old prices all over the internet in reviews etc. is now much better and much more expensive, but worth it. That takes advertising dollars, commitment and faith in their new plan, and patience, which are things most park operators have in short supply.