Electric refrigerator in toy hauler...Dry camping experience

[twvette]

Have this on another forum but wanted to share here too as wider audience. Have a couple related posts here but this is the full story ...

Figured would share my experience (long winded) as just purchased a Fuzion 420 that has the residential electric only refrigerator (Samsung in mine) which has been very stressful and costly in many ways.

I admit I was a bit rushed to make a purchase and should have done more research, especially on this big of a purchase. Am usually very good at doing this but circumstances kinda prevented the amount of research I usually do. Shame on Keystone and others as it literally should come with a big red WARNING label to those that plan on doing any dry camping, neverless even be distributed to the market I am in where it is probably 90% dry camping (dunes and forest) given it is a toy hauler after all.

Sales pitch:
Well to no real surprise I got a lot of bad info from multiple sales people at different locations that influenced my decision. I am in technical sales and would have never recommended this product without a lot of WARNINGS as was very clear how I would be using it and other products on lot a better fit for most. Was basically told that the batteries it comes with will get you through the day or night and no real concerns as they are very efficient refrigerators. Did not know until went to pick up that they only gave me one 12V battery! Apparently this is more dictated by the dealership than it is Keystone after speaking with them but still this is rediculous and Keystone should dictate otherwise. There was room for three so assumed that's what was going into it and figured in this high end of a rig that no way Keystone would not leave you hanging with a potential horrible situation one way or another without a WARNING.

Batteries:
As mentioned, I only got one 12V battery at delivery. I got about 3 hours of use from this battery with just fridge on the one time I tried it if curious. The battery area seemed bigger to me than really was so even putting 3 likely was not possible because of the limited room to "get them through the door" and lack of depth to be able to rotate them around to get them in place. In other words, it is more than just measuring the tray size in my case and only real way to see was to go very small or just try to see if can shoehorn them in one way or another. Having basically room for three is also annoying as doesn't help when going 6V golf cart route which is essentially necessary in my opinion. What I am really trying to say is if the rig does not have a HUGE battery location or you are prepared to otherwise get creative putting them in other places too this should be a big WARNING. I ended up going with two high capacity Trojan J305H-AC's rated which gives me about 360 Ah or in other words between 3 to 4 normal golf cart batteries. I was able to do this as I had a little extra height than width so these are just taller batteries. I still had to cut a hole in my basement compartment to slide them in from there as would not go through the normal door and this also required cutting of some metal which was not fun at all.

Solar:
Luckily I had solar on my previous rig and knew I wanted it on this one too so already had it worked in to the deal. However, I should have gone bigger as again was not expecting the electric refrigerator/battery issues. Had 500W system with 30A controller put in and it really helps to not run the generator much during the day but still wish would have gone bigger. The WARNING I would give here is to make sure you figure out how much solar you need in the environment you will likely be in. Lucky for me I am in mostly sunny AZ but gonna be more of a challenge when it comes time to go to the forest instead of dunes.

Inverter:
On the 420, and I assume on all of those who are doing these electric refrigerators, there is a dedicated inverter only for the fridge. It is wired into a switch on mine so that when shore power is connected it will run off the AC source and not need to have the inverter on. I was not in the know of inverters much when purchasing but knew the basics. Should have looked at it closer as later found it is just a 1000W even though it is a large unit and what appears to be a good inverter but time will tell. Not sure but seems would have been better for a 1500W or really a 2000W long term as from what I have seen this fridge pulls about 10A so that means about 1200W needed so thus over capacity and really supposed to have some excess capacity. It is wired somewhat close to battery but could have been much closer and need to take a closer look, but I dont think they used very heavy gauge wire to battery so shame on Keystone. So far so good with this inverter but still seems very suspicious to me especially for long term longevity with what I know now. WARNING, check inverter size and wiring and consider working a bigger one properly installed into the deal. Also, why the heck would they just not do an even bigger inverter and wire in a few of the outlets by TV's etc to be inverted outlets as now this is another thing I need to do as very annoying with a satellite receiver to have to search for signal each time and run generator on this high end of rig. I am really only complaining about this as I was told the TV's were powered by the inverter initially so again mislead.

External Generator:
Even with the good sized solar system and expensive battery bank I can't really make it through the night with the fridge on. I can make it through the day without generator use but that is only due to almost always clear and sunny in AZ and no obstructions in the desert where I am currently testing (wont be the case in the forest) but cannot if even a few hours of overcast. Still, the second the sun is about to go down need to run the generator to make it through the evening hours. Even with running the generator again a couple hours before going to bed and no heater use at night the battery bank is drained just enough that fridge is still on, lights, etc. ok but the onboard Onan 5500 does not have enough juice to turn over. So, luckily I already have a Champion 3100 generator with wireless start so I dont have to go out and jump start it which would be highly annoying. I also leave it connected to the shore power and run it most the time needed to minimize gas use. A Honda 2000 might even be better but not sure if any wireless options on them or similar. WARNING you are going to want to have an external generator likely with wireless start unless have huge battery bank. As a side note, I still have a hassle with this setup in that for some reason my In Command system will not let me start the Onan 5500 onboard generator even when battery is good and have to go outside and start it directly from the switch mounted on it which is very annoying. I think it has something to do with the switching as after doing this once it is good to start/stop from the In Command system but not really sure why it behaves this way.

Starter Battery for onboard Generator:
With expected significant power needed from fridge a dedicated and isolated starter battery should come standard. Since I have an extra battery spot open I will use the one measly battery they gave me for this purpose to turn over the Onan 5500 when not using the external generator. If not going to have an external generator I think this will be close to a necessity especially as batteries age etc. Since mine wont be the same type of battery not going to mess with isolation switches, etc. as I don't ever want them in parallel to my 6V bank or the complication of a similar setup or manual setup in general. So, I think will just do a NOCO 3.5A battery charger (its like a Battery Tender charger) and use it permanently to charge this battery as wont get drained much anyways so the minimal amps and time the generator is on typically should be more than enough to keep this battery topped off.

The Refrigerator itself:
I love it !!!! Very tough to say with what I am going through to power it but they do cool down to temp in say 30 minutes vs. many hours which is very important to me as its kept in storage and want to get the cooler out of the way once get to camp, it holds temp no problems, and this Samsung fridge in general is just very nice with a lot of freezer capacity for ice and similar, and having an ice maker is kinda nice to fill the coolers. I do have to mention that I need to look into why the fridge portion does not seem to be cooling off as much as expected and will get a temp gauge to make sure this is real and not a perception. Maybe even though fridge stays on no problems it is not getting the power needed from inverter as mentioned in the inverter section above? Some have also recommended turning off the ice maker to really help with powering it but that takes away one of the nice features for me albeit the rate at which it produces ice is fairly slow. I might also test if just turning it off at night might work as again it cools down so quickly to recover any small loss and when camping it is always cool to cold temps at night and don't put the heater on too high so might just work out.

I am close to making this a very manageable setup but not sure this is the way many people would want to go. Probably need to add another solar panel or two and look where could stuff a couple more batteries to have no worries. If was purchasing today probably would not go this route but the Fuzion 420 in general makes up for a lot of this hassle for me as just really liking it once get past this and a few other more expected new rig "issues".

WARNING - Equipped with electric only refrigerator - Dry Camping not recommended without modifications: 750W+ solar (or 20A), eight 6V batteries (500 Ah), 2000W inverter, Generator starter battery and/or external generator.
:S ... or just use a Yeti instead LOL

[tinner12002]

I think with the Fusion line they now have similar models, one with the res frig and the other with the prop/elec frig, other than that they are identical. I think the 4201 is the prop/elec frig model.

[kofire]

To be fair they do come with a built in generator which will solve your problems. However I get that it is very frustrating. Most sales people don't know they ass from a hole in the ground. I literally overheard a sales person at an Rv show in Southern California say something outlandish. He was telling the poor family how much of a "catch 22 " the solar option was on the toyhauler they were looking at. He said because it had a generator the solar was more of a hindrance. That is just a ridiculously annoying lie IMO. Especially to people who obviously are trusting the salesman to lead them in the right direction.

[ksss]

Initially a lot of the Fuzions were coming with the residential fridge, looks like they are now going the other way or at least offering the propane/electric as well. A residential fridge and a tow hauler would seem to be at opposite ends of the plausibility spectrum. As far as batteries, I think the two six volt batteries in series is the least you want to go. Out here, my dealer doesn't sell them any other way. I bought a Fuzion from Holmans in 2010 that had a single 12V. After one camping trip, I was in buying two sixes. The nights are cold here even in the Summer, heater runs all night long.

[twvette]

The market down here is well known as others have mentioned. It would help if there were warnings or if these units were just not distributed to this area (special order only). I don't think I see any trucks on the lot with the snow plow option in Phoenix LOL !!! There were several units on the lot and at other dealerships with this so not like I bought the only random one with electric fridge. As others have mentioned too there are several features that would not be included on these if really meant for just campgrounds.

allcool - thanks for the detailed info. I will be checking into a lot of that ...

Autostart - not sure an option for me as mine has the generator integrated into the "In Command" control system that controls just about everything in the rig. Might still work but would need to look into. Also not sure I want the 5500 firing up in middle of night under our bed as otherwise it doesn't serve me much good as that is when needed most. I can start the generator from my phone so I could just set the alarm each night for 3AM and start it up without getting out of the covers LOL! But still an option to consider for cloudy days and so don't drain the battery down too low to help save them in general ...

Will likely just need to have some welding done to have my battery compartment changed up for two more batteries (the compartment will have to hang down a bit and come into my basement storage area a little) and look into a bigger charging system for this. Honestly, all Keystone really had to do was give me the room for a big bank of batteries (four L16's as mentioned would be ideal) and it would be just a nuisance rather than a real issue for me personally.

[IdaD]

I'd say in my neck of the woods most toy haulers and RVs dry camp the significant majority of the time. Back in the midwest or east may be different. No way I'd want an electric fridge.

[fj12ryder]

^^^^^^^Probably similar to the percentages of 4 wheel drive SUV's that actually get off the highway, or the percentage of "adventure" bikes that go further than a gravel road. 🙂

[Wild_Card]

dedmiston wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:
Only warning I get from the OP is to know what you are buying.

Most people never stray far from an electrical hookup so the residential refrigerator is a good option. Probably slightly more TH camp without hookups but still probably a minority.

Only a small minority of toy haulers dry camp? :?

Yep...most toy hauler purchases are so they can load a golf cart and some canoes

[dedmiston]

beemerphile1 wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:
Only warning I get from the OP is to know what you are buying.

Most people never stray far from an electrical hookup so the residential refrigerator is a good option. Probably slightly more TH camp without hookups but still probably a minority.

Only a small minority of toy haulers dry camp? :?

1. I didn't say a small minority.
2. I would still wager that a minority (less than 50 percent) of TH dry camp regularly.

Not everyone has the open spaces of California, Arizona, and the like available to them, in fact, the majority do not.

My mistake in adding "small", but I still completely disagree.

The factories design toy haulers with built-in generators and larger holding tank capacities specifically for dry camping. Why would they undo that functionality by adding a residential fridge?

[allcool]

Just a few questions, and tips for you that might work...

Are you sure the frig is the problem...? It probably is, but maybe if you haven't already tried this, then it might be worth a shot. Maybe at home do a test, turn the frig off one night, leave TH heat on and anything else you normally keep running all night and see what happens..?

Do you know if the Samsung frig is a 2 compressor model..? Not all, but many Samsung's use a separate compressor for the freezer and another compressor system for the refrigerator section..? Imo, maybe the best system for a house with unlimited power.

Reason I ask, could be a way to minimize power consumption of your frig.
If its 2 compressor model might want to run it all day when on the genny/solar at the coldest setting with the freezer full, but with enough air space for proper circulation. Bottled water is good to add/use if the freezer is not full to capacity. A full freezer will hold its cold much much better than an empty one.
A full freezer at max cold setting all day, should be able to be turned off all night and still maintain a below freezing temp by morning. Keep openings of the frig to a bare minimum, and be quick to close the door(s).

Doing the same to the refrigerator section will also yield good results for 'holding its cold thru the night'. I Don't recommend turning off the refrigerator section all night. But running it all the way max cold all day long under solar/genny power, should get a full box close to 32-34° if you can keep door openings to a bare/fast minimum.
With lots of water bottles and a full frig you should be able to hold a reasonable safe temp by turning the frig thermostat up to 48° before bed or when you turn off the genny.

Doing these things should cause the compressor(s) to cycle a lot less frequently maybe helping lower the load on your battery bank thus making it thru the night and still with enough power to kick over the genny in the morning...

Oh ya, get 2 digital thermometers for the freezer and refrigerator sections to verify the frig is working up to specs.
Also check/verify temps after a night of setting up for 'minimum frig power use'.
A good working frig should get the freezer section to -10-0° after its properly loaded and been running for at least 24 hours. The refrigerator section when properly loaded should be able to maintain 36-32° after 48 hours of use at max cold settings.

Harbor Freight has decent small digital thermometers for about 5$ each. They aren't industrial strength, but fine and accurate enough for a frig troubleshooting venture.

jmo

[nayther]

beemerphile1 wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:
Only warning I get from the OP is to know what you are buying.

Most people never stray far from an electrical hookup so the residential refrigerator is a good option. Probably slightly more TH camp without hookups but still probably a minority.

Only a small minority of toy haulers dry camp? :?

1. I didn't say a small minority.
2. I would still wager that a minority (less than 50 percent) of TH dry camp regularly.

Not everyone has the open spaces of California, Arizona, and the like available to them, in fact, the majority do not.

Being in CA we're a bit jaded, like Lincster we rarely have hookups and dry camp 80% of the time (guess more than some but we use our trailer without toys a lot too). And in Ohio may be just the opposite, more developed sites with plugs.

either way I would NOT buy a rig with an all electric fridge, just MHO

[lincster]

beemerphile1 wrote:

dedmiston wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:
Only warning I get from the OP is to know what you are buying.

Most people never stray far from an electrical hookup so the residential refrigerator is a good option. Probably slightly more TH camp without hookups but still probably a minority.

Only a small minority of toy haulers dry camp? :?

1. I didn't say a small minority.
2. I would still wager that a minority (less than 50 percent) of TH dry camp regularly.

Not everyone has the open spaces of California, Arizona, and the like available to them, in fact, the majority do not.

Guess you have never been to Glamis over Thanksgiving?????

[Bedlam]

Even if you don't boon dock in remote areas, how will you deal with something like this if it takes one or two nights parked in store lots or truck stops to get to the next campground?

[beemerphile1]

dedmiston wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:
Only warning I get from the OP is to know what you are buying.

Most people never stray far from an electrical hookup so the residential refrigerator is a good option. Probably slightly more TH camp without hookups but still probably a minority.

Only a small minority of toy haulers dry camp? :?

1. I didn't say a small minority.
2. I would still wager that a minority (less than 50 percent) of TH dry camp regularly.

Not everyone has the open spaces of California, Arizona, and the like available to them, in fact, the majority do not.

[Bedlam]

I have two group 29's in my little truck camper, which comes in handy when you are boon docking and the temperature drops. I assumed they only put the residential fridge in units designed for full timing in resorts or for people that park hop. You can run jumper cables between your tow vehicle and RV if you have depleted the batteries too much to start the internal generator, but you are shortening your battery longevity by running them down so low and often.