GVWR, GCWR, & GVW

[clev]

Every time that I think I have a handle on these, they seem to explode in my mind. I know what each of the letters stand for, Gross Combined Weight Rating,........etc., and I know what they mean. What's confusing me, is the application of the ratings.

Example: My truck, 6.7 diesel, 3.55's, srw, has a GCWR of 23,500 pounds, a GVWR of 11.5k, and the truck weighs ~7.5k. If I have an 18.5k fifth wheel with pin weight of 3k, and drop the pin in the back of the truck, the truck now weighs 10.5k. The actual trailer weight after hook up is 15.5k. If the total rig was sitting on a scale, the total weight would be 26k. Is the truck overloaded? The 10.5 does not exceed the GVWR, and the 15.5k trailer does not exceed the max trailer weight of 15.7k pounds. Is the trailer weight, the weight as it's hooked up with the 3k sitting on the truck? Or, is it the total sitting weight of the trailer, unhooked?

[tinner12002]

One thing that I think helps to determine GCWR are your brakes on the truck. Should you have an RV brake failure your truck brakes will only stop just so much weight, in your case guessing #23,500. Of course no one looks at that, its always, oh mine pulls it just fine, just keep in mind all that weight has to be stoppable too. Plus, just because the RV weighs #15500 when hooked to your truck you also have to know if that is the GVWR of your RV, after all you will be loading it with personal belongings and camp supplies which add up to more than what you might think.

[clev]

Hi wilber; no, I'm not saying it, I'm quoting it from Curt's web site but I do agree with them because it makes sense to me. If the truck is within specs and carrying part of the trailer weight, then it is towing the remaining weight. And I think the word 'towing' and max towing weight is being misinterpreted. I interpret it as the truck being able to carry a certain amount of weight, AND tow a certain weight. As a radical example, if I dropped a 3000 pound weight in the bed of my truck, I could drive around all day with that weight and still have the capability of towing/hauling 15700 pounds. And you are correct on the gcwr. I'm not sure what my status will be until I get the trailer and get it weighed.

[wilber1]

clev wrote:
Thanks Tiger, but this statement may be inaccurate: "Your trailer weight is 18,500, which is over the Ford towing guide specs"

I was just on Curtmfg site and they have some informational pages in regards to towing and specs. They define the trailer weight as the actual curb weight of the trailer 'minus' the pin weight, because that is part of GVW of the TV. Based on that, my trailer will be ~15.5k pounds of towed weight; 200 pounds less than the maximum allowed.

I don't buy that. What you are saying is that you can tow a heavier trailer than the truck manufacturer specifies as long as you put as much weight as possible on the pin without exceeding the trucks GVWR. GCWR is towing limit, not a weight limit and is intended to provide a minimum standard of performance and reliability. That is why GCWR changes with different rear end ratios.

[clev]

Biscuit, the tlr is coming to me with a mfg weight of ~15k pounds and ~3k pound pin. Yes, I know about loaded vs dry vs mfg weight. I have weighed my truck and previous trailer more than once but don't have the truck weights right in front of me. Fact: the trucks specs will allow up to 3700 pounds on the rear axle. I'm good on everything except gcwr. I'll have to load very carefully.

[Old-Biscuit]

Where do you get the pin weight at 3,000#????


My 14K 5vr has a real world pin weight of 2980# (trailer total weight is 13,873#)

A 18,500# trailer will have a real world (WET) pin weight of 3500# or more.

And that pin weight is just part of the trucks payload capacity.
You also have to add the weight of yourself over 150#), all passengers, any stuff in cab (backpacks, under seats, etc) 5th wheel hitch for total payload

Total Payload (Cargo Carry Capacity) is stated on Safety Compliance Sticker (door jamb)
Does yours state 3700#??? Seems high for your trim level.....

Think you will be over on payload capacity
Think trailer pin weight will be higher than 3000#
Truck weight..7500# IS that scaled actual weight or brochure weight
(Camp ready scaled weight???)

Think you are going to be close on weights when you get real world numbers

[MFL]

Clev, no matter where you consider the pin weight to be, you are still over your gross combined weight by a fair amount. Yes, I think due to the 3.55 gearing. If you tow in 5th, lockout 6th, I don't see a problem. In any case, watch transmission temps, when pulling hills or head winds. I would not be too concerned, unless you feel you are straining your drive train, in adverse conditions.

Jerry

[SanMarMor]

Trailer weight is trailer weight. Part is sitting on the axles, part is sitting on the hitch. But you're pulling, and stopping, the full trailer weight.

Mark

[clev]

Thanks Tiger, but this statement may be inaccurate: "Your trailer weight is 18,500, which is over the Ford towing guide specs"

I was just on Curtmfg site and they have some informational pages in regards to towing and specs. They define the trailer weight as the actual curb weight of the trailer 'minus' the pin weight, because that is part of GVW of the TV. Based on that, my trailer will be ~15.5k pounds of towed weight; 200 pounds less than the maximum allowed.

[clev]

Thanks, I appreciate the replies. We ordered a Mobile Suits a couple of weeks ago and didn't pay much attention to weights and specs because we see Ford's, Chevy's pulling huge 40 foot (+) 5th wheels. Ours is not huge, it's 37 feet. About the only thing that I checked was pin weight, because Ford is capped at ~3700 pounds and the gvw is 11.5k pounds. We're well within limits, but checking specs today, the GCWR really got my attention. We'll definitely be exceeding GCWR.

[Tiger02]

Your trailer weight is 18,500, which is over the Ford towing guide specs. You're also over on the GCWR. Not a big deal as it is most likely due to your 3.55 rear end. Just means the transmission may work harder. I'd give extra attention to your transmission maintenance, and watch the temps.

If you're happy with the way it tows then I would not worry about it.

[CALandLIN]

I think the best way to look at your weights is to place a safety zone on them. The truck’s GVWR is 11.5K. That’s it’s maximum safe weight allowance from it’s manufacturer. Anything above that is going to be speculative. Same thing with the GVWR for the trailer and the entire rig’s GCWR.

[stickdog]

We're over on GCWR but under on all others hasn't bothered us except for MPG and I don't know if that 1000 over would make a difference on MPG anyway.

[clev]

Thanks, KD4. I guess my biggest confusion was/is 'Trailer Weight". I know that trailer weight is what it weighs on a scale but I 'think' that is different than max tow weight. In my example, the trailer has a pin weight of 3k pounds and when that weight is transferred to the truck, the trailer, sitting on a scale would weigh 15.5k pounds, which is what the truck will actually be pulling. The 3k pin weight just gets added to the GVW, which is still well within limits. Anyway, do you see my confusion?

[KD4UPL]

The trailer weight is how much it weighs. Not how much it weighs minus the pin. Your truck still has to tote that 3,000 pounds too. It doesn't magically go away when it presses on the rear axle.
The truck in question would not be overload as you're not exceeding the GVWR. However, you would be towing over the advertised limit of the truck because the whole rig weighs 26,000 but the GCWR is only 23,500.
Tow rating is not a legally enforceable number. Other than going slower up hills I wouldn't have a problem towing that much with that truck.