Is this safe?

[DadoPax]

My TV is a 2013 F-150 ecoboost supercrew

available payload when loaded to camp: 1160
tow: 11300
hitch: 1100
gear: 3.73
wb: 145"

TH is Vengeance 23FB13

sticker weight on lot: 6100
gvwr: 11,000
hitch: 876
length: 28'6"

toy is 1000lbs.
gas station is behind rear axle.
i never use fresh water tanks as i never dry camp.

so my payload is the issue. i could free up 200lbs having the lady and kid drive separate when they come.

estimated full weight of TH is 7500lbs, set tongue weight to 12% using WDH puts 900lbs on payload. WDH is probably 100lbs, so I am at max payload.

if i set WDH to 10% I free up another 150lbs... but afraid of sway.

all thoughts welcome!

[RandACampin]

nayther wrote:

RandACampin wrote:


No it pulls on a receiver hitch not the bumper.

"Bumper Pull" is a generic term referring to the trailer type vs. fifth wheel. Nobody pulls a trailer heavier than a few hundred pounds by their bumper.

I know, just hate that term.

[nayther]

RandACampin wrote:


No it pulls on a receiver hitch not the bumper.

"Bumper Pull" is a generic term referring to the trailer type vs. fifth wheel. Nobody pulls a trailer heavier than a few hundred pounds by their bumper.

[RandACampin]

DadoPax wrote:

arhayes wrote:
You didn't say if this a trailer or 5ver. If a 5ver, I can tell you the pin weight will wind up being more than stated on he sticker when your loaded. While ours is much bigger than what your looking at, the stated pin weight is 3600 lbs and we weigh in when loaded at 4200 lbs, so you might allow a little more in your calculation.

I guess I assumed they don't make WDH for 5th wheel?

Its a bumper pull

No it pulls on a receiver hitch not the bumper.

[Strabo]

You guys make me laugh 🙂

I pulled a 10,000lb hauler with my 05 f150, worked fine. Gotta know how to drive regardless of what your towing.

[Dirtclods]

fj12ryder wrote:
My thought would be if you're worried enough to have the wife and kids drive in a separate vehicle to save a couple hundred pounds, you're too close to the edge.

(you're too close to the edge)

Or dump the wife find a girlfriend?

[JIMNLIN]

op wrote:
I misspoke. I do NOT have max PAYLOAD. I DO have max TRAILER.

The 1160# is figured by accounting for weight of myself, the gal, the son, the kid seat, the dog, and the tonneau cover.

Is your RAWR 4050? I bet this would be pushing that too... hmm.

Looking at Fleet Ford weight specs shows a '13 F150 super crew 3.5 eb engine 145" wheelbase has a small 3850 lb RAWR (7100 GVWR).
Its going to be carrying all the hitch load/stuff in the bed and a percentage of rear seat load so its going to be the biggest safety factor.
Run some estimated weight numbers at you shows these trucks can weigh in the 2400-2500 lb range on the rear axle. Now subtract that from 3850 RAWR leaves the truck with a estimated 1350 lbs for a max rear axle payload.

You have the truck so drop by a set of scales and get the trucks front and rear axle weights. This way you know how to set up the weight bars and more importantly if that 11000 lb toy hauler that can have 12-15 percent hitch load will exceed those 3850 RAWR numbers.
RAWR = tires/wheels and rear suspension.

The '13 F150 comes with several RAWR numbers (3500/3800/3850/4050/4800) and GVWR ranging from 6450 up to 8200 lbs.

So which F150 you have depend on GVWR and especially RAWR numbers as its carrying the load.

[dedmiston]

mrkoje wrote:
I had a TT type TH and I will never have one again.

Well, that's a heck of a generalization. I have to disagree and I'm sure a lot of other members here will too.

I owned a 30' bumper pull and towed it with a 2500 CTD. It was a great setup. No complaints. That truck pulled our FS2600 great.

Now we own a bigger 5er and a much bigger truck. I love our new setup because the bigger (nicer) trailer suits us as an upgrade. I don't begrudge our old setup though.

[mrkoje]

I had a TT type TH and I will never have one again. First thing to take into consideration is the TW of the trailer will be much more than your typical 10-12%. It will be more like 17-20% before you load any toys in the back. They need to do this in anticipation of the load you be hauling behind the rear axles. So keep this in mind if you ever decide to go camping and not take any toys with you. That would pretty much kill your payload and be sure of a horrible tow experience.

I had a Ram 2500 CTD pulling a 28ft Desert Fox travel trailer type toy hauler. It was technically more than enough truck for the weights however I could never get the trailer balanced and it became such a PITA trying to that I eventually sold it after so much disgust while towing the **** thing. Your weight and balance leaving for the trip is going to be different then the return trip. Water, black tanks etc are going to disburse weight differently etc.. For the two years that I owned that trailer there wasn't one time towing that it didn't sway. Horrible horrible experience and it wasn't for the lack of knowing what I was doing or trying to balance the trailer to achieve the 10-12% TW that would allow for a decent towing experience.

If I could give anyone any good advice or recommendation it would be to RUN away from a TT TH and instead invest the money the first time on a good FW and truck setup. Believe me it may be more upgront expense but it will still be lest costly then finding out you rather have a FW!

So now I got my FW TH and couldn't be happier. No sway solid ride empty or loaded to the gills. First trip we took was actually empty and ran 300 miles out into a very remote part of Montana and for the most part didn't know the trailer was behind us. I couldn't be happier with the towing experience of the fifth wheel.

So - if you proceed with the TT TH .. take some time and research what I am saying and what other similar owners have said. Lots of horror stories with TT TH setups (excluding the little popup style with atv ramps on the front.)

That's all I'm going to say.

[2001400ex]

DadoPax wrote:

colliehauler wrote:
I've towed a 22 foot Cherokee Wolfpack with a older 1/2 ton Dodge/Ram. The ride was very harsh (when towing) compared to the 3/4 ton that replaced it. Dangerous no but so much more pleasant with a larger truck. Most of my trips were over a 1000 miles so I do have some experience towing. I understand budget as well and it sounds like your very informed to what the limiting factors are.

Do you remember which wolf pack? I looked at the 24pack14+ but I felt it was too big.

I had a wolf pack and they are the bottom of forest River. My new shockwave is also forest River, but much higher quality. So much stuff broke in the wolf pack just from towing. The last wolf pack I was in, a floor model, you could literally just push the bathroom wall in. Like it was made of cardboard or something.

That being said, if cost is an overriding factor and you don't mind fixing stuff, they do have some nice layouts and provide value.

[DadoPax]

colliehauler wrote:
I've towed a 22 foot Cherokee Wolfpack with a older 1/2 ton Dodge/Ram. The ride was very harsh (when towing) compared to the 3/4 ton that replaced it. Dangerous no but so much more pleasant with a larger truck. Most of my trips were over a 1000 miles so I do have some experience towing. I understand budget as well and it sounds like your very informed to what the limiting factors are.

Do you remember which wolf pack? I looked at the 24pack14+ but I felt it was too big.

[colliehauler]

I've towed a 22 foot Cherokee Wolfpack with a older 1/2 ton Dodge/Ram. The ride was very harsh (when towing) compared to the 3/4 ton that replaced it. Dangerous no but so much more pleasant with a larger truck. Most of my trips were over a 1000 miles so I do have some experience towing. I understand budget as well and it sounds like your very informed to what the limiting factors are.

[atwowheelguy]

DadoPax wrote:

atwowheelguy wrote:
With the 3.73, do you have the Max Tow option? In '13 that added some payload.

My experience:
2013 F150 XLT Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost 3.55 axle
7100 GVWR
5493 as built
1607 payload
6200 loaded for camping, with WDH but without tension bars
707 load in the truck
900 payload available when loaded
6920 hitched up, 180 under GVWR, 50 under rear axle GAWR

Toy hauler 2010 Funfinder Xtra XT245
4650 brochure dry weight
5025 yellow sticker
765 brochure tongue weight (16.5% of the brochure weight, 15.2% of yellow sticker weight)
6740 Actual wt. loaded with two 250 lb. dirt bikes, full propane, battery on the tongue, no water
780 Actual tongue weight (11.6% of actual trailer weight).

Note that actual tongue weight is only 15 above the brochure tongue weight.

The loaded trailer weighs 1715 lbs. more than the yellow sticker. It had normal food and clothes, 500 lbs. of toys and no water. With your 1000 lb. toy, figure you could have 2200 lbs. more than the sticker weight, with no water. So you might be at 8300 lbs.

The 3.5 EB with the 3.55 axle moves the 12,920 GCVW with no problem, but the rear suspension is compressed. I have bought some Torq Lift StableLoads, but haven't installed them yet.

You cannot adjust the % of trailer weight on the tongue with the weight distribution hitch. You can only somewhat adjust the % of the tongue weight that is transferred from the truck rear axle to the truck front axle and the trailer axle.

My truck does have the max TRAILER, and that was rated at 1640.

Do you have any idea what the extra ~1000lbs over stick can be accounted to? I had no idea that yellow sticker could be that far off, that's crazy. I knew they were far off brochure weight, but I didn't know they were off sticker weight that much.

How far have you towed your unit on a trip? I work on the road so every couple months I will be towing it an average of 10 hours to different locations.

Thanks for all the good feedback guys!

I never weighed it without camping supplies and toys and tools in it. There was no need to. Toys require tools and spare parts and tie down hardware and lubricants and lift stands. Campers require a spare tire and a jack and batteries and propane and bedding and towels and pots and pans and food and outdoor bbq grills and folding chairs and mine has two portable generators in it. I'm guessing the yellow sticker weight does not include propane or batteries and certainly none of that other stuff. Ask around for how much others' campers weigh above that yellow sticker weight, without any motorized toys.

My longest tow has been about 650 miles round trip. I will be going on a 900 mile round trip in March to Bike Week in Daytona Beach.

[MitchF150]

Here's the stickers on my truck.





I'm #400 under GAWR when hitched up, but my trailer only has around #650 TW when loaded up.

I'd expect your TH to be at #1000 TW just to be 'balanced' enough to tow half way decent.. Your WD hitch will transfer weight off the rear axle to the front axle and the trailer axles.. Think of it like a wheelbarrow.. The front wheel is the trucks front axles, the rear skids is the trucks rear axle, the handle bars are the WD bars and your legs are the trailer axles. The load in the wheelbarrow would be your TW and stuff in the truck.

When you lift up on the handles, it removes weight from the skids and puts it on the front wheel and your legs. Same basic concept.

Good luck!

Mitch

[DadoPax]

MitchF150 wrote:
Humm.. I guess I misunderstood what you said about the payload being #1160 'ready to camp'.

I figured that's with people and 'stuff' in the truck.

Max Payload is the 7 lug wheels and should have a GVWR of #8200.

Max Tow is the 6 lug wheels and should have a GVWR of #7700.

My yellow sticker shows #1920, but with my fat ass and all the other stuff I load in the bed, plus the wife, which does not add anything at all! ;), I'm at about #6400 on the truck weight alone. (before hitching up the trailer)

When I hitch up my little #5000 TT, I'm about #600 under GVWR and #400 under GAWR.

My yellow sticker was pretty close with NOTHING in the truck.. I load too much stuff in the bed, and I'm #230 myself... So the "payload" goes away quick when you weigh it.

Mitch

I misspoke. I do NOT have max PAYLOAD. I DO have max TRAILER.

The 1160# is figured by accounting for weight of myself, the gal, the son, the kid seat, the dog, and the tonneau cover.

Is your RAWR 4050? I bet this would be pushing that too... hmm.