King pin weight

[DBECHEN]

Have some questions on trailer weight and pin weight. We have a 2007 GMC 2500HD short bed 4x4. Just weighed it today on a CAT scale. Was loaded ready to go with generators extra propane tanks and fuel. Here are the weights:
TV STEER AXLE - 4380
TV REAR AXLE - 3340
TOTAL TV WEIGHT - 7720
TV GCWR - 22000
TV GVWR - 9200
TV REAR GAWR - 6084
TV FRONT GAWR - 4800

TRAILER INFO: 2016 Artic Fox 27-5L

Weights with trailer attached
TV STEER AXLE - 4360
TV DRIVE AXLE - 5760
TRAILER AXLE - 10520

We have a 16K pullright super glide hitch.

Our trailer GVWR is 13400.

I guess my big question is are we overweight?
We want to tow safely and appreciate any constructive thoughts.

Thanks for helping.

[tinner12002]

JIMNLIN wrote:

How do you figure the trucks not overloaded...920 lbs over the GVWR rating on the truck is overloaded!!!! You can't candy coat it and say because the OP is a few pounds under on RAWR that he's not overloaded! Anytime you exceed the GVWR your putting more stress on driveline components than they are meant to safely and reliably have. I guess some just think that GVWR is just some fictional # someone has pulled out of the air and stuck on the vehicle. Why do we even discuss weights when your going to tell people its okay to exceed posted ratings??

Bla BLa Bla...here we go again with the same old nonsense that somehow gvwr is a indicator of a overloaded vehicle.
However I'm not going to redebate you or others that pound this subject to death at least once a week. Pages and pages of gvwr or a gcwr or a yellow payload sticker number vs the gawrs/tire load capacity has been beaten to death already.
If the OP wants to know how much load his truck can safely/legally carry his area state troop post can give him those answers.

You do what you want on your setup and I'll do what I want on my setup but to me, its not very responsible for someone to tell someone else its ok to be overloaded on their equipment when it may or may not be safe. Is that something you want responsibility for if you tell someone its no big deal to be overloaded then they have an accident related to that...personally I wouldn't want that on my shoulders. That's all I'm saying about it.

[Old-Biscuit]

CWSWine wrote:


Ok, you say for warranty post a link to creditable site that says that not just take my word for it.

To start this I will post a creditable link to site that states not to exceed and even list what might happen if you do and this one from GMC own website.

Overloading your truck or SUV can carry severe consequences,

Now your turn for a link saying it just warranty and don't worry about exceed the GVWR....I believe people should have the facts but believe me because I say true isn't a fact.

You are asking me to prove a NEGATIVE

Your link is a MFGs Recommendation with 'What Ifs'

*Broken springs and suspension components due to excess weight That is from overloading the AXLE/SUSPENSION Components....something I do NOT recommend
*Brakes unable to stop the truck or SUV in a timely manner Once again..braking ability is based on AXLE Rating
Don't exceed axle ratings
*Transmission and other driveline components may overheat and sustain serious damage
Only issue that is related to GVWR and warranty coverage could be denied. Course that applies to engine tune programs etc
*Unusual suspension behavior, making the vehicle hard to control Once again..suspension is part of the Axle Rating.
Do NOT exceed Axle
*Tire temperatures rising to elevated levels, potentially leading to a blowout
Tire Load Rating and proper air pressures
Do Not exceed........Tire Load Ratings are typically Higher then Axle Ratings so you would have to overload axles in order to overload tires.
Under inflation causes heat build up and blow outs


Bye-Bye
Let your informed conscience be your guide

[DBECHEN]

All, thank you for your responses and feedback. We are concerned about being on the line when it comes to driving safe. We have seen the rigs that are way overweight on the road and don’t want to be one of them. There have been some thought provoking responses that we are still working through. Thanks again to all who have responded. We will let everyone know what we do (Banks, AirBags, new 1 Ton truck). It has been an experience moving from a hybrid TT to a 5er.

[CWSWine]

Old-Biscuit wrote:


Picking my nose while driving could result in an accident where I was held liable ----that is a civil court matter
Just like texting while driving.
Not the point or issue

And your link...plays like a bad ambulance chasing lawyer like those TV ads for all the side affects from various medications.

GVWR is a mfgs warranty issue...NO statues/laws except for 'registrations'

Axle/Tire Load Ratings ARE directly covered by statues/laws.
Overweight on those and you WILL be cited fro being overweight and all the hassles that brings with it.
Overweight on GVWR...nada except for ambulance chasing lawyers which is a possibility with just about anything you do in life.


You and I are NOT going to agree on this point.
And I am even one of the so called 'weight police'

But great thing about 'choice'......everyone has the opportunity to make decisions based on their own perceptions of a situation. Hopefully using ALL available information. And not based on 'fear' of 'WHAT IFs'.

Ok, you say for warranty post a link to creditable site that says that not just take my word for it.

To start this I will post a creditable link to site that states not to exceed and even list what might happen if you do and this one from GMC own website.

Overloading your truck or SUV can carry severe consequences,

Now your turn for a link saying it just warranty and don't worry about exceed the GVWR....I believe people should have the facts but believe me because I say true isn't a fact.

[Old-Biscuit]

CWSWine wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:

JRMunn wrote:
Okay, I'll take the bait. First, my reference to GVWR was the lead in to an observation about towing, which is the subject of this thread, and has been taken out of context. Second, pickup trucks have changed a lot over the years. Now, they usually have power brakes, at least front disk brakes, and better tires. So stopping is accomplished in shorter distances with less pedal effort. But physics still works. Heavy loads need more stopping distance and can affect overall handling. For me, the GVWR rating works as a guide on how much weight to carry in the bed; and, in this situation, it also happens to be an easily understood legal limit. Yes, most set-ups can probably carry more. But the chances one takes and how much one wants to extend load and stopping distance are matters of personal choice and experience, some of which is, unfortunately, learned the hard way with a ticket, a close call, a mashed up truck, and/or serious injury.

JRMunn

GVWR is NOT a legal standard......Axle/Tire Load Ratings are
GVWR is a 'warranty/Registration' Issue

Towing in excess of the vehicle manufacturer’s weight limits could not only prove dangerous, but could even be considered negligent. In the event of an accident with an overweight personal vehicle, you could be held responsible for higher awards in a lawsuit for damages to other people, vehicles or property.

Personal Vehicle Towing Liability for RV’ers

Now who do you want to believe is the question.....Forum Lawyer - Legal Orientated Website - Or do what I did, contract a local attorney for advice. Your Choice....

Picking my nose while driving could result in an accident where I was held liable ----that is a civil court matter
Just like texting while driving.
Not the point or issue

And your link...plays like a bad ambulance chasing lawyer like those TV ads for all the side affects from various medications.

GVWR is a mfgs warranty issue...NO statues/laws except for 'registrations'

Axle/Tire Load Ratings ARE directly covered by statues/laws.
Overweight on those and you WILL be cited fro being overweight and all the hassles that brings with it.
Overweight on GVWR...nada except for ambulance chasing lawyers which is a possibility with just about anything you do in life.


You and I are NOT going to agree on this point.
And I am even one of the so called 'weight police'

But great thing about 'choice'......everyone has the opportunity to make decisions based on their own perceptions of a situation. Hopefully using ALL available information. And not based on 'fear' of 'WHAT IFs'.

[2001400ex]

I have a very similar setup as you with almost the same weights. I weighed mine with the wife and kid and all my quads in it, fully loaded except water as we rarely travel with full water.

I added air bags to mine and have a tune with exhaust brake. I have taken it over the biggest mountain passes in the Northwest and Montana without any problems. The exhaust brake is nice, I have to push the gas pedal to keep speed as it slows the setup so much.

As has been stated, you know you are over GVWR as I am. Although I would rather have a 1 ton and it would tow much better, I am fine with my current setup.

[CWSWine]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

JRMunn wrote:
Okay, I'll take the bait. First, my reference to GVWR was the lead in to an observation about towing, which is the subject of this thread, and has been taken out of context. Second, pickup trucks have changed a lot over the years. Now, they usually have power brakes, at least front disk brakes, and better tires. So stopping is accomplished in shorter distances with less pedal effort. But physics still works. Heavy loads need more stopping distance and can affect overall handling. For me, the GVWR rating works as a guide on how much weight to carry in the bed; and, in this situation, it also happens to be an easily understood legal limit. Yes, most set-ups can probably carry more. But the chances one takes and how much one wants to extend load and stopping distance are matters of personal choice and experience, some of which is, unfortunately, learned the hard way with a ticket, a close call, a mashed up truck, and/or serious injury.

JRMunn

GVWR is NOT a legal standard......Axle/Tire Load Ratings are
GVWR is a 'warranty/Registration' Issue

Towing in excess of the vehicle manufacturer’s weight limits could not only prove dangerous, but could even be considered negligent. In the event of an accident with an overweight personal vehicle, you could be held responsible for higher awards in a lawsuit for damages to other people, vehicles or property.

Personal Vehicle Towing Liability for RV’ers

Now who do you want to believe is the question.....Forum Lawyer - Legal Orientated Website - Or do what I did, contract a local attorney for advice. Your Choice....

[JIMNLIN]

op wrote:
We were thinking about adding a Banks power speedbrake to help with the downhill braking.

The banks speed brake is a computer program that resets GM VVT (variable turbo vanes) for more aggressive exhaust braking which is what the newer Dmax have done.
Check out some of the GM diesel websites for more info on EFILive "turbo tunes" other than the expensive Banks system.
You'll love the added exhaust braking power over GM OEM low performance grade braking in the older Dmax engines.

[garyp4951]

DBECHEN wrote:
Af Chief and Pilot, when we are hooked up our truck and trailer are completely level. Heard air bags will give a smoother ride.

The air bags will help the leaf springs to not absorb all of the impact of dips, like at the ends of bridges.

[Harley_Doc]

centerline wrote:

tinner12002 wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:
In addition, manufactures know the truck can haul more, and they know people who buy trucks to haul a load with are going to cheat the rating quite often, so they give a very conservative rating to keep it within the definition of "passenger vehicle".

Can I get your source of this information?

[DBECHEN]

Af Chief and Pilot, when we are hooked up our truck and trailer are completely level. Heard air bags will give a smoother ride.

[john_bet]

AFChief_and_Pilot wrote:
Sounds like the usual weight discussion. The OP asked a question because he/she really didn't know. So answering the question is the first thing. Several have answered correctly ... you are overweight on the truck's GVWR. You are therefore not "technically" legal.

Now that the facts are understood, the debate (which involves a great deal of OPINION) is on. The problem with those who give you their opinion, is that they don't have to live with the consequences of those opinions, you do. You now know the facts and if you choose to operate overweight, at least it's a conscious decision of a fully formed individual.

As has been pointed out, this opens you to potential liability if a bad thing happens, but there is a low percentage of risk. Not zero, but not likely. Many people operate overweight, most because they are oblivious. Can't tell you the number of SRW 3/4 ton trucks pulling 5th wheels which are almost always overweight. There is another group that are overweight and they know they are, but chose to do so anyway. Not judging here, but as an adult you make your choices and accept the potential consequences.

IMO, you can operate your rig as you are, but just know that you are taking a chance (albeit a small one) by operating overweight.

Ok sir, are you saying a person should absolutely not put plates on their vehicle that are of a higher rating than the door sticker? I know of cases where that is done as a routine for years and nothing wore out sooner, broke down, or caused an accident.

[Slownsy]

And in some places it is definitely a legal limit.
Frank.

[AFChief_and_Pil]

DBECHEN wrote:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. We live in the Phoenix Az and every pull is pulling up and down mountains. Pulls up just fine, coming down was a bit rough on the last trip. I don’t think I had the trailer brakes set right and warped my rotors. Expensive mistake on my part. We do not have or bags and have never hit the stops on the rear suspension. We have replaced the original tires/wheels and moved up in size and always run E-Rated tires.

Just curious ... is your truck and trailer level when towing? The only real purpose for airbags on the truck is to alleviate rear end sag. If the truck and trailer aren't level it is likely you will be overloading an axle ... you want to be level so that all the axles share the load evenly.

Be Safe.

[AFChief_and_Pil]

Sounds like the usual weight discussion. The OP asked a question because he/she really didn't know. So answering the question is the first thing. Several have answered correctly ... you are overweight on the truck's GVWR. You are therefore not "technically" legal.

Now that the facts are understood, the debate (which involves a great deal of OPINION) is on. The problem with those who give you their opinion, is that they don't have to live with the consequences of those opinions, you do. You now know the facts and if you choose to operate overweight, at least it's a conscious decision of a fully formed individual.

As has been pointed out, this opens you to potential liability if a bad thing happens, but there is a low percentage of risk. Not zero, but not likely. Many people operate overweight, most because they are oblivious. Can't tell you the number of SRW 3/4 ton trucks pulling 5th wheels which are almost always overweight. There is another group that are overweight and they know they are, but chose to do so anyway. Not judging here, but as an adult you make your choices and accept the potential consequences.

IMO, you can operate your rig as you are, but just know that you are taking a chance (albeit a small one) by operating overweight.