short bed - sliding hitch vs sidewinder?

[JeffPritchard]

Newbie to 5th wheel arena.

I'm in the throes of figuring out my next rig.

I'm planning to go with a short bed "half-ton" (nay-sayers, please hold your tongue this time...already hashed that out in another thread. 🙂 )

I have looked at a fair number of youtube vids about the awesomeness of both sliding hitches and sidewinder/revolution pin-box approach to avoiding collision between trailer and rear of cab.

I can't seem to decide yet which is "better". Any of you have tried both and can compare/contrast the two approaches?

[Bigmoss]

I am towing with a 5.5 foot box and an F150 with a slider hitch. Granted my 5er is small but I have also towed some of my friends larger rigs with no issue. It also really depends on how big the "bubble" of the cap is. If its more flat than round you should be good not to hit the cab of your truck. To date I have never been in such a tight area that with the hit in the back position I could not get out of BUT I plan my stops and other things very well and in large areas so I can get around.

I looked at the superglide hitches but they were way to expensive I felt for what I needed and the amount I was going to tow.

[gtsum]

I have sidewinder and like it. I would not be without a slider or a sidewinder with a 6ft bed. I have been in several instances where I would have hit with the combo in my sig had I not had the sidewinder. By having the sidewinder, it allows me to have the hitch mounted where the kingpin is 2 inches in front of the rear axle (aka long a long bed) and gives me more weight in the middle/front of my truck vs all on the back. My front axle weight increased about 50lbs when hitched up with 3300 on the pin. That being said, if Pullrite made a superglide for the ram pucks, I would have looked hard at that...downside is the massive weight of the unit

[glazier]

I had a Sidewinder for a few years, never noticed any bad pulling habits from it. About the same as a conventional hitch and pin box.

[jmvx2]

When I bought my 5er it came with a manual slider, if there was any tension on the pins, it was difficult to relase the catches to slide it.
I bought a SW/5AB and later switched to the pullrite auto slider. In my opionion the pull-rite tows much better then the SW, especially in the mountain curves. With the pivot moved back on the SW there was much more side torque felt in the rear of the PU. The wedge needs to be absolutly tight with no free play once hooked up. The factory wedge in my opinion was not built heavy enough. I finally built my own wedge that was thicker and longer to the rear to have more surface area in contact with the
5th wheel plate opening. Otherwise if there is any slop in the contact, even with less then 1/16" of an air gap I would get a sideways rocking/knock in the curves that could be felt as it hit from side to side.
Having switched to the pullrite everything is much more solid and stable, and like the SW the movement for clearance on tight turns is automatic. Especially nice if pulling off the road to a parking lot or diesel station that is tight, and not worrying if you can make the turn without sliding. Won't go back to the SW. (If any one is set on getting one I will make a good deal)

[JeffPritchard]

C Schomer wrote:
My 5er came with a SW/5th AB but I have a LB so I removed the SW and reused the 5th AB and moved it back 10.5" to do away with the ext. pin position. I towed it home 1000 mile with the SW and I couldn't tell any difference from a solid pin box. After removing the SW, I still couldn't tell any difference.
My hitch is 3" in front of the axle and the pivot point of the SW was 9" behind the axle. The pivot point of a bumper pull is about 4', maybe even more, with a WD hitch sticking out farther. I'll take the 9" behind the axle any day over a bumper pull! That little bit was undetectable even when I went back and forth with the SW and the pin positions. I have friends who put their regular 5er hitches 6"- 8" behind the axle, on their SBs, so they wouldn't need a slider and that also worked fine. A heavy slider would be the very last resort for me. I'd find a SB friendly 5er and mount the hitch farther back if I needed a little more. Craig

Thanks Craig, lots of sensible stuff here.

One thing that occurs to me though is that putting regular hitch back slightly behind the axle would have some negative impact on the whole "weight police thing" for me, since my truck will be a well-configured "half ton". For such a truck, I'm told that even with "legal" numbers, the rear axle has more weight than it should. A slightly forward hitch position puts at least a couple hundred pounds more of the pin weight onto the front axle instead of the rear. (whereas the behind the axle position would actually move some of the engine weight onto the rear axle via lever action)

[C_Schomer]

My 5er came with a SW/5th AB but I have a LB so I removed the SW and reused the 5th AB and moved it back 10.5" to do away with the ext. pin position. I towed it home 1000 mile with the SW and I couldn't tell any difference from a solid pin box. After removing the SW, I still couldn't tell any difference.
My hitch is 3" in front of the axle and the pivot point of the SW was 9" behind the axle. The pivot point of a bumper pull is about 4', maybe even more, with a WD hitch sticking out farther. I'll take the 9" behind the axle any day over a bumper pull! That little bit was undetectable even when I went back and forth with the SW and the pin positions. I have friends who put their regular 5er hitches 6"- 8" behind the axle, on their SBs, so they wouldn't need a slider and that also worked fine. A heavy slider would be the very last resort for me. I'd find a SB friendly 5er and mount the hitch farther back if I needed a little more. Craig

[Beaker]

Well, you folks can debate the physics but no difference from conventional that I can feel.

[JeffPritchard]

Learjet wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:

sfpcservice wrote:
The sidewinder in my opinion turns your truck back into a bumper pull by moving the pivot point behid the rear axle.

No, moving the pivot point back doesn't affect how the load is distributed. Weight is still over the TV axles so its still going to tow like any other 5er in that regard.

How does the physics of this really work?

yes the weight is still over the axle, but an arm is locked to hitch that extends reward.

So, any side, load such a semi pushing on the side of trailer would generate leverage on this arm...thus twisting around the hitch. So yes similar to a bumper pull...but with a shorter arm.

I haven't seen one of these up close and in person yet. the youtube videos show a "wedge thingy" that prevents the arm from rotating at the kingpin. The "turret" on the sidewinder pivots. This means a side load on the camper can create a small angle between the camper and the truck. That would apply a twisting force around the z axis of the truck at the king pin. Essentially trying to twist the truck around the kingpin.

So the forces are ALL still applied to the truck AT the kingpin. In the case of a side load on the trailer, the force applied at the kingpin would change from a purely side to side load at the kingpin, to a twisting force or torque. Either way, all of it is applied at the kingpin (which would normally be near the axle of the truck).

Whether changing that force from a translational one to a twisting moment at the kingpin is a "bad thing", I couldn't say.

[Learjet]

N-Trouble wrote:

sfpcservice wrote:
The sidewinder in my opinion turns your truck back into a bumper pull by moving the pivot point behid the rear axle.

No, moving the pivot point back doesn't affect how the load is distributed. Weight is still over the TV axles so its still going to tow like any other 5er in that regard.

How does the physics of this really work?

yes the weight is still over the axle, but an arm is locked to hitch that extends reward.

So, any side, load such a semi pushing on the side of trailer would generate leverage on this arm...thus twisting around the hitch. So yes similar to a bumper pull...but with a shorter arm.

[Dave_and_Sue]

The only thing I should have added to my post,was be sure you get the hitch specific lock out plate.I have the Reese 16 K and the one that came with it works just fine.Just traded trucks today and now have a 6 1/2' bed on my Ram 3500.I wont be changing anything on the hitch or pin box.

[billkaufmann]

N-Trouble wrote:

sfpcservice wrote:
The sidewinder in my opinion turns your truck back into a bumper pull by moving the pivot point behid the rear axle.

No, moving the pivot point back doesn't affect how the load is distributed. Weight is still over the TV axles so its still going to tow like any other 5er in that regard.

You are right NTrouble

[billkaufmann]

JeffPritchard wrote:
Newbie to 5th wheel arena.

I'm in the throes of figuring out my next rig.

I'm planning to go with a short bed "half-ton" (nay-sayers, please hold your tongue this time...already hashed that out in another thread. 🙂 )

I have looked at a fair number of youtube vids about the awesomeness of both sliding hitches and sidewinder/revolution pin-box approach to avoiding collision between trailer and rear of cab.

I can't seem to decide yet which is "better". Any of you have tried both and can compare/contrast the two approaches?

I had a slider. I did not care for it. I now have the Sidewinder and it works great. At 90 degree under 5ver, I have 9 inches clearance to the cab.

[kopy_kat]

I have the Revolution (factory installed Sidewinder type pin box) with the Reese 16k hitch....no problems with towing, I can do a u turn in the tightest of spots, easy to back in narrow areas...and very easy to couple and uncouple the rig. I am on my third camping season with this unit.

Larry

[N-Trouble]

sfpcservice wrote:
The sidewinder in my opinion turns your truck back into a bumper pull by moving the pivot point behid the rear axle.

No, moving the pivot point back doesn't affect how the load is distributed. Weight is still over the TV axles so its still going to tow like any other 5er in that regard.

[N-Trouble]

JeffPritchard wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
I assume by short bed your talking 6.5" and not the little 5" beds you seen on some of the newer 1/2 tons?

Sliders are heavy and you likely don't need one with most new 5ers have tapered nose caps. The Andersen hitch moves the pivot point back ~5-6" which gives some additional clearance vs a non-sliding hitch and in most cases will get you to 90" with a 96" wide trailer.

For you application I would highly recommend the Andersen Ultimate Aluminum hitch which comes in at only 30lbs,

Finally googled this thing. Very unusual. Lots of interesting good features.

I wonder though...how difficult is it to get that ball lined up perfectly enough when you're docking? On the one hand, you would be able to see it out the back window...but on the other hand it looks like a less sloppy connection than a typical ball hitch. Any troubles with that?

Backing up to the coupler is not difficult since its raised and you can see it out the back. It is not as forgiving as a traditional 5er hitch but you have a couple of inches in each direction you can still be off and it will still drop on the ball. With a little practice its not difficult. As for the connection it is very solid and you don't get any of the bucking/chucking you can get with some traditional 5er hitches. You also never have to worry about high hitching or dropping the 5er on your truck bed. You KNOW when its on there and there is no second guessing. There are lots of discussions on this forum in regards to this hitch with MANY happy owners. The aluminum setup would be perfect for your application IMO.